susank
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22150
posted
Past LD tests from Quest showed no positive bands. Igenex showed 5 or 6 including 41. Last round of bloodwork results came back with only band 41 positive. Lab I had not heard of before and doctor will not be using anymore ie Arup. Does it seem that if one has only one band positive it is usually 41? Assuming so, then why? What IS the deal with band 41? If is it positive and if one does not have syphlis, gum disease ( or LD) what could it mean? I read that band 41 is common for other bacteria but info on that is really lacking seeming evasive. What other bacteria could cause a positive 41 band? Are there 3 or 30 or 300 other possibilities? TIA!
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Band 41 can show up with any kind of spirochetal infection. It seems to be the most common band to show up and the first to show in Lyme patients.
I don't know how many possibiities there are but in any case it seems that it would still need to be treated with antibiotics which ever infection it might be. This is the way I understand it anyway.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I THINK band 41 is either Lyme or a gum disease.. so if your gums are OK.. guess what?
=====================
VITAL INFORMATION ON BAND 41!!!!
From a seasoned poster:
The number of people exposed is in the millions. The reason you can't get treated is they have decided that only early disease merits diagnosis and treatment. The bacterium itself is the most bizarre human bacterial pathogen known, and is poorly understood.
They don't know how many people are carrying a permanent relapsing brain infection. you can't get diagnosis or treatment because they have to pretend it doesn't exist and use labels like 'post lyme' and 'CFS' etc. for those who manifest illness.
Look at what Steere did in his 1992 study which is the foundation for the CDC serodiagnostic standard. He and others often look back on this and refer to a 'normal' control, but in fact the control was taken from sick people...MS sufferers, CFS sufferers, in sum, conditions which could have been caused or complicated by late Bb infection. Moreover, he threw in 25 syphilitic patients which constituted 20% of the control. Hoever, syphilis itself has an annual US incidence of 3 per 100,000.
This statistical chicanery, which fudged the result at 41 kDa on Bb blot by many multiples, is significant, because syph serum will cross react at 41 kDa to Bb western blots. It allowed them to 'swift boat' the importance of the reaction to 41 kDa, which is the earliest and most consistent human ab response to Bb infection, being present in all stages as opposed to the rest of the proteins which are variably expressed according to stage, tissue type, even temperature.
Flagellin {41kDa} is necessary for Bb to survive under all conditions, and is constantly expressed, including in late CNS infection. Yet they chose to swift-boat this response.
Why? It's for political and economic reasons. telling the truth about diagnosis and treatment results in mass panic and probable economic collapse/political revolution. it's likely a bioweapon. North American disease is different from European disease...lack of CSF antibodies, for instance.
A much larger range of serum resistance to host species in wild{allows Bb to infect a much wider range of species, important in disease spread and maintenance in wild}. The CDC has found that Bb 31 goes intracellular in CNS cells.
Telling the truth threatens the careers and livelihoods of the very individuals who control this issue and who have actively lied and deceived and otherwise operated a scientific propaganda campaign for the past 15+ years, profitting from the campaign as they went.
Lyme disease, which in the US also perhaps includes other pathogens notably a bioweaponized bartonella, threatens the entire establishment. If late disease was rare, we'd be able to get treatment. Unfortunately, the EIS/CDC,DOD totally screwed this up and tried to make money off of the disease, making profitability their first priority as opposed to protecting the health of americans.
Think about this...Allen Steere wouldn't listen to Polly Murray in early 90's when she reported a big incidence of neuropsychiatric disease in lyme. She had to call Fallon. Now, Fallon has overwhelming evidence of a serious disabling relapsing brain condition which is not easily treated.
Global hypoperfusion on spect/pet ain't normal folks. Don't you think the CDC etc. should be breaking their balls trying to figure it out? Instead, we see nothing at all, only continued attempts to deny illness and obstruct treatment.
Obviously, they know what is going on, and have determined that the best course is to do nothing, to cover up, knowing that in doing so, they are condemning large numbers of people to perpetual diagnostic and treatment hell.
Think about it. It's a horrific scandal and I'm not sure how much longer these *******s can keep control of it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Wow, Chuck, only 6 of 132 are negative? That spins my head a lot. Doesn't that seriously bother anyone?
[ 11-23-2009, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: seekhelp ]
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
He wrote that only 6 of 132 ARE negative.
Did you mean to write NOT in your post Seek?
Maybe that will make difference. So he is saying a very large percent of us have the 41 band. That is not a suprise? Right? Maybe I am reading it wrong? Who knows.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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I have wondered from the get go if I really have lyme but I'm sure I do now that it is 6 months later and I am really not better and the bands have not disappeared.
41 may also be caused by H.Pylori (spirochette). I had HP and took Biaxin. My last biopsy showed I don't have HP anymore but I still have band 41
-------------------- TxLymie IgG-Negative IgM - Postive bands 23 and 41
Other dx: 2000: Endometriosis 2009: Chronic EBV, Mycoplasma infection, HHV6, H.pylori Posts: 297 | From Houston | Registered: Jun 2009
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
Some think that 41 is from the Mystery Parasite seen by Fry and Clogen labs that is yet to be fully identified and named.
never know..
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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There are two rows for each record. IgM and IgG. 68 records representing about 64 people. I, for example, have two records as I have been tested twice.
The 68 records equal 136 rows. Counting IND as Positive band 41 has 128 Positives in the 136 rows. There were 34 INDs in the 128 Positives.
When I reach 100 records I may make an effort to look more closely at this data. Not that I think that what I am doing is any more than gross numerology. A trait that defines H. sapiens. Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
I agree with Lymetoo. I believe that band 41 is lyme if you've had other testing done and find nothing. The only band I've ever gotten was band 41 as well. It really sucks, though to have that as the only band!!!!
Read this, very important for people to read who have only gotten a band 41:
The following two reports by Allen Steere and Yale state that if a person has band 41 (or flagellin), Lyme symptoms, and they do not have severe periodontal disease or syphilis, they have Lyme borreliosis:
1) Allen Steere in 1986, when he developed the first CDC Method to diagnose Lyme, recommended: '' Perform serial Western Blots to look for changing and expanding IgM and IgG antibodies,'' since Lyme is a borrelisis, a relapsing fever, and the changing antibodies is a reflection of the varying antigens- and that, THIS CHANGING phenomenon means ``the spirochete remains alive throughout the illness.''
In that full text report, Steere said one can distinguish between Lyme and syphilis, when one only sees band 41 (anti-flagellar antibody) in a person complaining of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Fibromyalgia.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
Very interesting. Glad they figured that out.
It is our human nature to want this proof.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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