Most recent lab work shows that I have high levels of mercury and lead.
Mercury is 13 - ref. range is 4 from Doctor's Data Inc. and mercury in blood is 6.6 - ref. range is 5 from BioReference Labs.
Lead is 19 - ref.range is 5 from Doctor's Data and lead in blood is 1.5 - ref. range 0-25 From bio Reference Labs.
Intergrative LLMD would like me to begin DMSA 600 mg a day in 3 divided doses, 3 days on and 4 days off.
LLMD never discussed the issue of amalgams, and I was ignorant about this issue until I read your posts. Thanks to the info you all provide on this board I now know that taking DMSA is not a good idea if one has amalgams.
However, I would be interested to know if any of you have taken DMSA with amalgams and what your experience has been.
I also would like to know if there are other metal detox options that would be safe to use with amalgams.
Since last July (when I was feeling lousy)I have been taking 1 tbsp of liquid bentonite with 1 tbsp of psyllium and 2 tbsp of ground flax seeds with 2 glasses of water, and it has really helped me to feel well without prescription meds.
However, I can't help wondering if Bentonite could be causing the high mercury and lead levels in my system, as it is supposed to attract toxic material etc. Could it be extracting mercury from my amalgams? What are your thoughts?
Thanks so much for your help!
JJ
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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You may want to study this for a while. Within 48 hours of the amalgam installation, some of the mercury has moved into the central nervous system and brain. It will continue doing this for years. DMSA will pull the mercury from your teeth and sadly it doesn't head straight for the exit. You will learn more if you check some of my older posts.
And do watch the mercury vapors leaving a tooth that had been pulled many years before.
posted
Thank you, Gigi, for this information, it is very compelling.
"And do watch the mercury vapors leaving a tooth that had been pulled many years before".
I'm not sure that I totally understand this, can you explain further?
Thanks JJ
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
I chelated w/ good results with amalgams.
The amalgams are coming out, but it can be done with them in with good result. It helped me.
I will begin chelation again w/ the amalgams and then once they are out long term.
It all depends on the person.
I believe it is "better and wiser" to wait "if" you can to have your amalgams removed, but many people have chelated under the guideance of LLMDS with amalgams w/ good results.
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Thanks djf2005 for sharing your experience. It's encouraging to hear that chelation can be done without removing amalgams, but I am just concerned that the dmsa may redistribute the mercury from the amalgams throughout my system.
Did your LLMD have any concerns about redistribution at all?
Thanks JJ
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
JJ29, You can watch the smoking tooth (mercury vapor escaping from the tooth) by watching the video I gave you in the second link. This is exactly what happens - as long as the mercury is in your mouth, it escapes from the tooth, usually attaching to the nerves nearby. It is explained in great detail starting on page 1 of Klinghardt's publication.
Everytime you drink, chew, move your jaw - mercury escapes. Absolutely no doubt about it.
Doing chelation with amalgams still present does not serve much, if anything. By the law of osmosis, the body redistributes the toxin from one body compartment to the next, with very little actually leaving the body. It may feel as if it helped, but years of experience tell the story. I linked you the best above.
Per Dr. K. and my own experience and that of many others I have contact with, getting rid of infections is extremely difficult when the body terrain is still metal toxic. It's a good idea to do a lot of research.
Best wishes and take care.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Thank you, Gigi, I will look into this issue further before I do anything with DMSA
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Thank you, Gigi, I will look into this issue further before I do anything with DMSA
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
My ART practicioner Rxed a homeopathic remedy called Total Mercury. She said that'll eliminate the mercury issue.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
JJ-
No, my LLMD was not "too" concerned and keep in mind he does not see eye to eye with DK about the metals issue, or at least not completely.
Most conventional LLMDs are more concerned with getting the levels down on paper than they are with amalgam removal, etc (whether that be wrong or right)
You will see a lot of people on here being told to chelate w/ amalgams, and a lot of confusion.
Initially I was screened w/ a provoked 2g DMSA urine challenge test which came back VERY elevated for mercury.
At the time, the 3-4k it was going to require to have the amalgams removed (the proper way) was not an option, so we decided to chelate.
My Dr (Dr " " in Hyde Park, NY) has done this with many many patients while their amalgams are still in.
Patients report some success and feel some better as did I even chelating with the amalgams in.
Now do I agree with what Gigi is saying and is it far better to remove the amalgams before beginning chelation if able, absolutely, yes.
Not everyone is able to do everything in the correct order all the time, but from my experience, it did help me tremendously to chelate even w/ the amalgams.
I used 100mg dmsa w/ 10 pills of chlorella and 10 drops of NM Algas every 3rd night. This was found to be a protocol that worked well for me.
Since relapsing (6 months ago) I am further convinced that metals are a larger part of the picture as Gigi is saying and DK, and am looking to get them removed asap.
Surprisingly, my most recent provoked urine challenge came back much less elevated for mercury, almost normal, but that means little to me as the amalgams are still in and I still have many issued which I can only attribute to a immune system in dysregulation due to metals, infections, and the like.
Once the amalgams are out, I will begin w/ the chelation protocol again, hopefully with even better results this time. Chelex is a good product that can be substituted for DMSA if finances or a Dr's RX is the issue.
There are a lot of other agents that can be used to mobilize and then bind the metals.
So long story short, IMO, if you can afford to get them out soon, and the right way, I would wait to chelate. If not, I'd try and see what kind of results you get. If you feel worse, stop. You are not going to do permanent damage to your body by chelating, because that's really the only way to get them out...
Best
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
I havent chelated yet--was waiting to decide about my amalgram removal and $$$.
No money, but i just ordered NM Algas for if and when the time is right. 20-30 Chlorellas/per day already and going to add Bentonite/Psyllium Husks. Sauna 3-4 times/wk too.
Am i reading your lead level correctly at 19? I investigate lead poisonings in children for a "living" so if 19, you should definitely weigh options.
Although as adults, lead tends to move to bone--whereas 19 in the blood either indicates a really recent exposure to lead on the job or in your home.
I hate to say it, but it's like you ate a mercury-filled MN fish with a lead sinker in its belly. I hope you get some further answers, and dont take my opinion to heart too much.
We probably all have metals--yours are just moving around in your blood now. Might be a good time to extract them since they're somewhat mobile. Under a watchful LLMD's eye of course.
Keep me posted on chelating!
Posts: 123 | From Minneapolis, MN | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Oh by the way--i just looked at my bottle of bentonite and it specifically says it extracts certain (inorganic) compounds like pesticides.
I would doubt it would have any action on metals...unless because it's clay---which is soil full of iron, it would displace positively charged Pb for Iron...meaning hmmm it could.
DAMN-I'm no doctor...just a pseudo-scientist who sees now your concern. I just took my first tablespoon of bentonite tonite.
Maybe that IS why your lead and mercury levels are soo prevalent in the blood.
Get binders--no matter what you do. Psyllium is a binder, but i would stock up on others. And get plenty of calcium and leafy greens.
There's a diet that goes along with eliminating lead poisoning quicker. Magnesium would be good too--altho there is thought that Mag helps Lyme Bb to build biofilms which shield the bacteria from antibiotics/antimicrobials...
What a f*n pickle...
Posts: 123 | From Minneapolis, MN | Registered: Jul 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Just a couple remarks - in a hurry:
There is actually no method to chelate a mercury molecule with one agent and remove it from the body. It takes several products to get certain types of mercury all the way out of the body. No single substance will do it. Often it takes more than products, such as turning off the fuses at night and moving away from EMF exposure. Or cleaning up emotionals, or cleaning up the mouth, the bite.
If you make the wrong move and move the metals into the brain because of incorrect timing and wrong agents, you are probably much worse off. Don't blame it on Lyme. You are shuttling metals around more than anything else. You may shift one ache to change into another. The body does anything to survive --- hide it- hide it-
Homeopathic mercury has, per Dr. K. and many others, never worked to remove mercury from the body. That was determined years ago by all the docs that tried it.
There is no lab test whatsoever in the whole world to determine how much toxic metals remain in the body or for that matter, where they are deposited. Only energetic testing can give a clue. If you show a lot or none following a lab test, means little. Some bodies release a little, some release none and hold everything back until other problems are eliminated (allergic dysregulations). Consider Allergie Immun and possibly KPU.
If you are and remain symptom-free, i.e. well and feel good, chances are you have mastered heavy metals. But not until then.
At this time in this world, removing heavy metals is a lifelong task if you want to prevent problems.
I have met some patients after they walked away from Dr. H. being discussed above, and they were as sick and worse after the "chelation with amalgams in mouth". The trouble is, they never go back and it is difficult to tell what causes any symptom when talking about this multifaceted disease.
Psyllium is a very poor binder - it binds allright, but make sure you keep things moving. Not all clays are clean ----- some are better left alone.
Don't remain sulfur depleted. Have suffiient sulfur on board (MSM / sulfhydryl). No mercury will bind without it. DMSA and DMPS is an expensive sulfur supplement. Replace all minerals that are pulled out with "chelation". We cannot detox without a healthy mineral base. Learn about sulfur. I have written many times about this on Lymenet. That is why we eat garlic/onions/etc. Organic garlic - because it if is not organic it may already hold on to too much contamination before you swallow it.
It is very difficult to blame certain symptoms on certain causes. It's a wild mix, and unless you work on everything together (metals, infections, chemicals) nothing will be totally successful.
My experience and still learning.
P.S. KPU therapy is definitely a breeze and a lot easier to tolerate when done after the Allergie Immun Therapy is complete or very close to completion and the body is able to recognize the toxins before KPU brings more into circulation and can be dealt with by a functional immune system. Allergie Immun "repairs" the immune system which is out of balance for many.
[ 12-04-2009, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I agree for the most part, metals are a large component of getting well I believe.
Chelex is not a single agent, its has dmsa, dmps, and many other agents in it, which is why I suggested it.
You suggest the possibility of using the "wrong" agents at the "wrong" time. When does one know the right time? You suggest that by chelating at the improper time the metals will be shuttled into the brain. How is it that they won't do the same at a different time? How do you/I/we control where or how the metals end up once mobilization and binding agents are chosen?
I agree there is no lab testing reliable and that they mean very little. It's similar to lab testing for the infections we deal with, they are only a glimmer of what's really going on.
I also agree that removing metals is a long process that will take experimentation and commitment.
I can appreciate the fact that you have met some patients from Dr " " who were sicker than ever, but I also have met many who were not.
How were you or the patients able to determine their increased state of sickness was from chelation w/ amalgams and not from one of the many other facets that you admit we all face?
I do not ask or say these things to be inflammatory, I am truly trying to understand because I want to get well too.
I have met many patients who have been to see Dk who are as sick as ever also, and every other major LLMD for that matter.
This is not stated in an attempt to knock any LLMD, I have a great deal of respect for them all and personally would love to see DK tomorrow.
Everyone is very different and treatment is so subjective and surrounded by so many variables that laying a fundamental groundwork for one single process for the masses may be a mistake.
I think for the most part DK is a very good source on this subject and knows more than most Drs.
I also think no single Dr knows everything about any single subject and that by combining the knowledge of many good Drs we have the best possibility of a more favorable outcome with this process.
I do appreciate your insight, and I do agree you have a very good understanding of the processes at work when it comes to everything with lyme.
I also wanted to thank you and everyone else on the AI thread, as it is very encouraging and something I am looking to in the future. You are always quick to share and encourage.
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Derek, just a couple of comments based on what I have learned by being exposed to the Dr. K. circles for more than ten years. More is added every month and the last page of that book will never be written. We learn as we go. The difference is - we learn and build on it.
Improper timing: don't want to use agents that cross the blood brain barrier before clearing out the rest of the body. Law of Osmosis: the body will continue to distribute the toxins right back into the area that has been cleared, i.e. you clear the brain before the rest of the body (separated by bbb). the body will use shuttle agent to supply the brain anew with the nasty mercury, etc.
Energetic testing is used, usually ART, to determine whether to treat metals, what to use and when. Sure you have heard of other methods. I prefer ART by far. I learned to use my own tensor and can do quite well with it. Not the Dr. K. way, but I can certainly find my way through the maze of finding the problem and what to do first and what to use for it. The body will give very clear indications by positive or negative polarity using a tensor. If I take my metal vial in my hand and the tensor indicates that the vial resonates with my body, I know metals are still a problem. I can refine my decision what to do with the tensor. It is very simple to learn. When I really need serious attention, I go to the ART experts and pay the price. I occasionally check with them to verify that I am on the right track and continue my own.
Often the body has other priorities, and structural corrections are primary, or emotional blockages are in the way for clearing toxins. Unresolved emotional conflicts often stand in the way before we will release toxins. When the emotional conflicts are resolved, often the flood gates are opened and toxins can be released and pains disappear. So a good doctor will find the blockages with energetic testing and treat them. It works.
Lyme has a thousand arms and it doesn't necessarily start with the tick bite or bacterial infection.
Often releasing some metals will bring viral infections to the surface. Parasites store huge amounts of metals in their skin without being metabolically disturbed by it.
Here is a short article that I have saved so I wouldn't ever forget - from a lecture Dr. K. gave some years ago: `` Usually when you have a patient with amalgam fillings, you have on a daily basis this nice stream of mercury and tin and other trace metals coming down, and the worms immediately take that into their coat (he refers to them as the knights in shining armor). They become completely vulnerable to your own immune system because on thing your white cells cannot handle is large amounts of mercury. They commit suicide. And it doesn't help the organism, because when the white cell dies, it releases everything it has stored - back into the system. Metals are not `metabolizable'. They cannot be transformed into something else that is not disturbing. Once they are released again, they are just as toxic as they were before.
The worms are - big tapeworms or roundworms are just waiting for the next dose of mercury that they take in to protect their coat to protect themselves from your immune system. That's why ruthlessly looking for worms in neuro diseases is important.''
The body has great problems releasing a substance to which it is allergic; i.e. the immune system does not recognize the toxins, and it will not release ithem until the allergies are cleared. Usually at the DNA level. When the allergies are released, the dysregulation corrected, the body lets go. The right time is determined by energetic testing: the body clearly tells what is the most important to be dealt with at this time and how to best deal with it, i.e. determine meds, quantity, all of it. If testing tells that your gallbladder is struggling, there is no sense continuing with any detox or killing treatment until you give the organ a hand to be able to deal with the fallout.
People are well when symptom-free. If the patient is not well or relapses, is tested energetically and toxic metals turn up again and again, it means they are still a problem and need to be dealt with. It happens all the time. It takes years, patients and care, and Dr. K. faces the same problems with every patient, and drops what doesn't work. He is constantly searching and receptive to all, giving credit to all who contribute. I am glad he sticks around.
Thank you for your kind remarks.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
LizaLu - thank you for your responses. Based on what you are saying, I am really concerned! What other natural binders would be good for me to use to try to remove these metals from my blood?
Derek: Thank you for sharing your experience re DMSA with amalgams; your decision to remove amalgams after your recent relapse; and info re chelex.
Gigi - thank you for presenting Dr. K's position so clearly re why it is important to remove amalgams first and then remove heavy metals from the rest of the body before the brain. It makes a lot of sense. Also how do I go about doing Allergie Immune and KPU? Do you think it's very important for me to do these two protocols before anything else?
Based on all your responses I now know that the logical first step is to have my amalgams removed. However, I have a a few questions and /or concerns:
1. How can I present Dr. K's viewpoint regarding this issue without offending my current llmd? My llmd in NYC (Dr. B. sent some of his patients to him when he retired) has mentioned to me that he is familiar with Dr. K's work, but I am somewhat skeptical now about his knowledge of heavy metals removal. When he discussed taking DMSA etc.he never asked if I had amalgams. He told me to continue using the bentonite/psyllium/flax seed drink and also to start taking coconut oil and arrange to have colonics done every other week while taking DMSA 3 days on and 4 days off.
2. While I am waiting to have amalgams (3 or 4) removed what can I take that will help to begin the removal process of the metals from the various compartments of the body (not the brain)? Do you recommend that I use chlorella as well as, bentonite drink?
3. How can I find a reputable biological dentist in the new jersey/new york area? Does anyone have a recommendation?
Thank you all so much for your help!
JJ
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