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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » how to save my gallbladder...

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Author Topic: how to save my gallbladder...
learning721
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okay so i already have possible kidney issues/damage but i'm wondering if there is anything i can do to help my gallbladder- it seems common that a lot of lymies have theirs removed- is this inevitable or can i do something to support it?? going to ask my nephrologist what test i can do for my gallbladder...
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knshore
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Are you on IV Rocephin? That's the reason lots of Lyme patients lose theirs....

I speak from experience.

If you are on rocephin, you can take actigall to prevent stones, but surely your LLMD would put you on actigall if you're on rocephin.

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Keebler
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As knshore says, It's usually just from the IV Rocephin.

And, as I understand it, you've not yet had any treatment for lyme. Even for those on IV Rocephin, there is an Rx to help prevent gallbladder damage and much good diet advice.

The nephrologist deals only with Kidney issues.

Since you have your first appt. with a LLMD on Wed. be sure to ask about this, too. If your gallbladder is inflamed, s/he can help you with that.

The curcumin is also a help in that dept. and I see from another thread that you take that.
-

[ 12-29-2009, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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learning721
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Nope no iv Rocephin yet- though i have heard this is good for people dealing with ALS symptoms??? I have been worried about that since i got sick.

I had just noticed a lot of the people who've had lyme a long time end up losing their gallbladders- i had one Naturopath tell me mine wasn't in good shape-

unfortuantly we don't have the resources for me to see a ND and my LLMD so i'm hoping my LLMD has a good ND that he takes advice from.

If i can somehow afford occasional visits we do have a good chinese MD that started an all natural practice. 495 for initial appt though.

Wow keebler, 10,000 posts- i will be taking your advice to heart. [Smile]

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abigail
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I don't understand why more people don't do Claforan wich does not cause biliary sludging. It's effect is comparable to the roceph per dr. B's guidelines.

--------------------
Dying is easy. Living is harder.

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pamoisondelune
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Here's a quote:

QUOTE:
Yes, there is lots you can do. (I'm not a doctor, of course). You can get rid of gall bladder sludging and gall stones easily and painlessly for pennies without losing your (his) gall bladder. You can do it with a liver/gall bladder flush.

I've done tons of them, including when I had horrific gall bladder sludging recently from rocephin (totally got rid of it, verified by ultrasound). I've also taught clients to do them for decades.

You can google the flush. Hulda Clark has one version. Although it's great to do a 5 day prep, you don't have time for this, and it isn't necessary when in a pinch. You could do it tonight and end the pain and suffering---or at least tomorrow am.

I've coached people in horrible pain from a gall bladder attack through a flush in one night that relieved the pain right away. (I'm not trying to promote myself, just that it works).

PLEASE, please try it. We have gall bladders for a reason! And there is no danger and no pain, just relief. It's sad that doctors don't know about or promote this (or can't, due to our medical complex).
Rumigirl
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UNQUOTE

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zombie
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Two different people I know who were having painful gallbladder attacks got them under control by drinking herb tea made from 'chanca piedra' AKA break-stone, chancha piedra, Phyllanthus nururi.

They were able to find it at a local health food store but you can also get it online.
http://www.wholeworldbotanicals.com/herbal_breakstone.html

Drinking freshly made beet juice and eating raw or fermented beets and dandylion greens is also beneficial, as are coffee enemas (the coffee stimulates the liver/gallbladder to dump its load of toxins into the colon whereupon the body quickly excretes them).

http://www.coffee-enema.ca/coffeeenemaprocedure.htm
I have done many, many coffee enemas during the course of my illness and find them to be amazing for detox...

My friend swears by doing liver/gallbladder flushes:
http://www.drclark.net/en/cleanses_clean-ups/liver_cleanses/liver_cleanse.php

Here is a yahoo group for people interested in natural gallbladder treatments:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/

Here's some really good herbal info I found at the group:

"Just to clarify for everyone: Chancha piedra is Phyllanthus nururi. Chancha
piedra being the name of which it is known in South and Central America
(nickname breakstone). It is a staple herb in Ayurveda and Unani Tib as well,
being known in Sanskrit as bhumy amalaki. I could wax positively for hours on
this herb. This is one of the finest "liver" herbs on the planet. A couple of
stand out qualities: Along with bupleurum falcatum (hare's ear, thoroughwax)
both herbs have been shown to increase the bodies production of interferon.
Making them both spectacular antivirals as well for retroviruses such as hep C
for instance. It is however critical not to take them if on interferon therapy
for a form of interferon induced pneumonia can occur (better to get of the
interferon.. . nasty, nasty stuff. Phenomenal when you make it, destructive when
they add it exogenously) . Probably one of the most important aspects of
phylanthus is that it is not only
liver detoxifying and liver protective but is also know in ayurveda as liver
regenerative. Keep in mind that the liver is the most regenerative organ in the
body outside of hair, skin (including the lining of the digestive tract), and
nails. Cool huh?

The miracle is that we are still living and breathing after all we have done
to ourselves. These and other liver herbs such as coptis, rhubarb, golden coin
grass (lysmatchia) , etc. help to dissolve stones by increasing the production
of bile thereby thinning out the sludge and eating away at the conglomerations.
Other herbs contain terpene compounds which are volatile oils that help to break
up and disperse masses. Boldo, peppermint, oregano, etc. Point being; give it
the double whammy if you like. And then there are either the bile acids
themselves or acids that have a similar effect such as acetic (vinegar) and
malic (apples and other members of the malus family). Keep in mind that bile is
composed mainly of water (the more the merrier by the way), bile salts (bile
acids bonded to minerals), cholesterol, lecithin (an essential emulsifier), and
bilirubin (dead red blood cells, or technically the pigment thereof). So the
secret to the dissolution
of the stones is the balance of the above constituents. Water, lecithin, bile
acids, being dissolving. Extra bile being dissolving. The terpenes being
dissolving.

Also keep in mind that dissolving gallstones is just one part of the issue.
Other parts may include but are not all inclusive such as: How did you get them
in the first place? Diet, lifestyle, hormonal dysfunction (thyroid), etc. Liver
dysfunctions; Drinking in excess, hep, other illnesses such as viral or
bacterial. As most have found out in this group: This is the beginning not the
end. If one thinks that they can just do a flush, release their stones, and go
on living the same way they have, they may be in for a very unhappy surprise. I
am amazed at the way that some people on this group have totally restructured
their lifestyle in a positive way and embarked on a whole new way of living and
in some cases learning..."

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learning721
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i have actually done 2 hulda flushes- but the problem is the epsom salts- they are NOT recommended for kidney issues... so i really don't want to keep up with that and was hoping i could find something else-

thanks about the beet juice thing- do i have to juice the beets myself or can i get the juice in a can?

I do have an enema bag for the coffee thing...just shy to try something new again- how many have had success with this? THanks so much for the responses

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RDaywillcome
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According to Dr.Oz, people who do colon cleansers, only enjoy the feeling! They really don't do anything else. Drinking the coffee and eating fiber, will do what your looking for.
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RDaywillcome
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A lot of non-lymies, also have their gallbladders removed! My opinion on this? You've already had problems, and a herxheimer sends it into overdrive!
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Pinelady
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http://www.mdheal.org/articles/word2/lymedruginteractions2.htm

You might found something here. I have read R. depletes Vitamins. So you might need lots more antioxidents.

http://www.evitamins.com/healthnotes.asp?ContentID=1344006
Cephalosporins side effects=Vitamin K loss.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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massman
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Flush a stressed organ = beat a tired horse [bonk]

Hey ! If EVERYBODY does something, it MUST be right, eh ? [bow]

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learning721
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massman- i've been thinking along the same lines- Pinelady- what is the "R" you are talking about- rocephin?
RDaywillcome- i'm sure my gallbladder was already suffering from lack of care on my part- from however many parasitic infections i have going on...

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lymie_in_md
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2 lines say an awful lot massman and states the reality of the situation very well.

So if massman is correct flushing probably yields only so much based on the health of the organ. So helping the organs rebuild is also a requirement for a better outcome then surgery as well as flushing. It may also take a bit more time, so constructing a plan is in order if you want to avoid surgery.

You are probably not digesting fats really well. So, I would limit fats to coconut oil and olive oil only and not to much of that either. Stay away from nuts and limit seeds. Lots of dandelion greens in the form of pestos in the diet for awhile. Lots of fresh squeezed lemon juice. You probably should look into the KPU discussions.

Hulda cleanse should be put on hold for awhile as well as coffee enemas. You could support the liver with a cup or two of liver detoxification teas, should help the gallbladder as well.

You might try some herbal remedies as well. It is better to try everything first before you let the surgeon into your body, read the following link:

http://www.herballegacy.com/Gallstones.html

--------------------
Bob

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Keebler
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-
Yes, exactly as massman said: "Flush a stressed organ = beat a tired horse "

Gallbladder or liver SUPPORT can be a very different thing from a flush or detox "event" for a hot and irritated organ.

Zombie's suggestion is a very good one: 'chanca piedra' AKA break-stone, chancha piedra, Phyllanthus nururi.


This sort of approach is nurturing and nourishing to the body, purposeful but not forceful.

Acupuncture, too, can be very helpful, along with an herbal formula prescribed by the L.Ac or ND. Some DCs and DOs also have some manual therapy techniques or other nutritional wisdom for gallbladder comfort.
-

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Keebler
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-
WORKING RESEARCH LINKS - to keep handy for just about any question. These are just a few of many good sites.

It is ALWAYS best to have professional guidance with someone who has a specific degree and years of study in this area.

The top sites are not specific to lyme but, nonetheless, provide a gold mine for learning.

=======================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com

The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tilltotson, et.al.)

You can search here first, for detailed explanation on how different organs or systems function and, then, details about specific healing diets and also about certain herbs.

A search here for ``gallbladder'' brings up many informative pages.

====================

http://www.vrp.com

Vitamin Research Products

They have a wonderful library of articles exploring body functions and support measures including diet and self-care - as well nutritional supplements (vitamins, minerals) with some discussion of a few common herbs.

Each of their articles is supported by varied citations, documenting the origin of the research.

=====================

http://www.itmonline.org

Institute for Traditional Medicine (Chinese Medicine research library)

==================

http://herb-pharm.com

Herb Pharm

--

http://herb-pharm.com/index.php?action=viewcompounds&search=s

STONE BREAKER (Chanca Piedra) COMPOUND

===============

http://www.rain-tree.com

Raintree's extensive website on the Amazon Rainforest features 100's of pages and pictures and facts on rainforest plants, preservation and destruction.

Third party research backs up their informational articles. They list dozens of research links for each herb or formula.

----

http://www.rain-tree.com/chanca.htm

Tropical Plant Database for Chanca piedra

==============================

The rest of these are specifically for lyme patients' research:

--------------


http://www.klinghardtneurobiology.com/LymeProtocolOct09.pdf

A Treatment Guide: Lyme and other Chronic Infections

by Dietrich Klinghardt, MD, PhD

October 2009 - 87 pages


===========================

http://www.lymeinducedautism.com/images/Lymewhat_is_it_part_3,_LIA.pdf


LYME DISEASE Considerations in Diagnosis and Management

June 26, 2008 Lyme-autism Connection Conference

Steven Harris, MD

125 pages - Powerpoint presentation

=============================


http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

Dr. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines (2008) - 37 pages

----

This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:

http://www.lymepa.org/Nutritional_Supplements.pdf

Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease

J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD (2008)

Four pages

====================

This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:


http://tinyurl.com/6lq3pb (through Amazon)


THE LYME DISEASE SOLUTION (2008)

- by Kenneth B. Singleton , MD; James A. Duke. Ph.D. (Foreword)

You can read more about it here and see customer reviews.

Web site: www.lymedoctor.com

=========================


http://tinyurl.com/5drx94


Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine - by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang


web site: try www.sinomedresearch.org and use "clinic" and then "clinic" for the passwords or call Hepapro through www.hepapro.com

================

http://tinyurl.com/5vnsjg


Book: Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections - by Stephen Harrod Buhner


website: http://planetthrive.com/2009/08/buhner-healing-lyme-program/

-----

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/86857

Topic: Buhner Healing Lyme Q & A links have changed


==========================


www.lyme-disease-research-database.com/lymenutritionfile1_files/Integrated-Approach-DAN.pdf


HEALING LYME DISEASE: An Integrated Approach to Curing Chronic Infection


Daniel A. Kinderlehrer, M.D. (2004)

============================


This author is also an ILADS member & a LL ND:

http://www.dancingviolets.com/media/pdf/LymeDisease.pdf

Chronic Lyme Disease and Co-infections: Clinical Overview


This explains a lot about how the body works when fighting lyme. It has some very detailed accounts and suggestions.

======================


Similar approach, from another ILADS-member/ND author:

http://www.steveclarknd.com/LymeDisease.htm

-

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Keebler
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-
PubMed is a clearing house of sorts for medical abstracts appearing world-wide. There are many abstracts reporting nutritional supplement (vitamins, minerals, enzymes) as well as research on plants (herbs) used in medicine.

As not all good articles are abstracted at PubMed, it is just a starting site - and there are more specific ones in the field of plant medicine. If one chooses to look further, going to the publication that published an article of interest often provides a wider window.


Here's how to navigate PubMed:

The section I like to see first is:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Milk Thistle - 344 abstracts

With it's primary official name:

Silymarin - 1309 abstracts

==============

It's all in the name. Common herbs names may bring results - or not. And each herb has at least two formal names. It's good to search under all the names.

Stonebreaker - zero

Chanca Piedra - zero

Phyllanthus niruri - 67 abstracts

- but, with a different spelling, many more:

phyllanthus nirurii - 477 abstracts

And, among those, #7 really grabs my attention:

Adulticidal and larvicidal efficacy of some medicinal plant extracts against tick, fluke and mosquitoes.

===================

Other PubMed features through:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-

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lymie_in_md
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If you choose to see a doctor or health professional, you might want to find how much bile is being created. There was a time when I was reconstructing gall bladder and liver function, I needed to supplement with bile salts for a short time. If the body isn't producing enough bile that is problematic as well. Or bile levels diminish, bile is recycled from the small intestine. Too little bile slows the whole digestion process.

If I had to guess, bile creation and recycling is a joint function of the liver and small intestines (all so a home for candida issues). Lymies tend to have sluggish livers, I suspect some lymies don't produce enough bile, throwing digestion off balance. Just my own thoughts. If you think you need a test, ask the doctor about a serum bile acid assay which can confirm a sluggish liver as part of the problem.

Bile salts aren't for everyone so please ask a practioner.

--------------------
Bob

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lymie_in_md
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Thanks a lot keebler, now I'm going to have spend time reading Tilltotson's book! [lol] After reading just a few parts, it will help me understand herbals even better... Thanks... [Smile]

--------------------
Bob

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RDaywillcome
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Gall Bladder and Apendix are not major organs, so don't worry about loosing it!
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massman
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"Gall Bladder and Apendix are not major organs, so don't worry about loosing it!"

Worry ? YES ! We can live without these organs, but will we really be well without them ?

Why did God give them to us ? For MDs to cut out ?

Mixed herbals designed to rebuild organs are available from:

www.inno-vita.com
and / or
www.systemicformulas.com
[woohoo]

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karenl
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My gallbladder pain is totally gone. I googled for a gallbladder diet and only buy the foods which are allowed. You have to really follow the rule.
No hydrogenated fats...It tooh about 2 to maximum 3 weeks.

Dr. Z sells a medicine called Gall 1. It helps also.

The gallbladder helps the liver. Any surgery is a risk, why not just slowly cure your gallbladder
by eating the right food.

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learning721
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THANK YOU everyone! Thanks for all the links Keebler

I have heard mixed things about whether we need our gallbladders or not but i do agree that God must have put them there for a reason...

I would love to learn more about what foods are good for the gallbladder-thanks for the tips

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