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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Very concerned about symptoms--may go to ER

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Author Topic: Very concerned about symptoms--may go to ER
gwb
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The past three mornings I've been waking up to some new symptoms that concern me and I need some input from you all. Today it's gotten worst than the previous two days.

I get bad shaking and nauseated (almost vomited) and my blood pressure goes up to 144/90 which isn't that bad but normally it's about 117/75 or sometimes just a little bit more.

My head feels like it's swelling inside and my eyes have pressure in them. I smell something in my nostrils that smell like an infection but I don't have a runny nose or sinus issues that I'm aware of. I'm concerned about an infection somewhere in my head or sinus area. This is all new and just started three days ago.

My left side abdominal pain has continued for two months now without letting up and this concerns me too.

I'm not on abx, can't take them anymore. I'm afraid to go to ER because if it's lyme related they won't take me seriously and won't know what to test for.

I'm very concerned about the head/eye pressure and off putting smell that smells like an infection.

I'm really struggling with what to do. If you were having these symptoms and went to ER what would you tell them to test for?

I've been checking out Dr. J's protocol in KS and have gotten a few pm's from people who did well at his clinic. Wonder if I should just plan to go there and get treatment? Not sure how long it takes to get in, that's something that concerns me too because I feel I need to be seen asap.

Please help. I'm at rock bottom now and am concerned that this disease is going to get the victory if I don't do something now.

I need advice and input from you all to help my wife and I make the right decision.

There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors and I'm praying your input, advice, suggestions and wisdom will help guide us as we consider what we will do in the next few hours.

Gary

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sutherngrl
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I think only you know if you need to go to the ER or not.

I only go to ER if I think I am dying and sometimes not even then. Otherwise I would call my LLMD.

If you don't have a LLMD anymore or a GP that you trust, then the ER may become a neccessity.

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elley0531
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I'd call your LLMD if you can. If not, go to the ER. It's annoying, but you don't want to mess around if you have something bad going on. I have Lyme, but I was in the hospital for 5 days for very low blood sodium. I had to go there no matter what...Lyme or not. I needed IV fluids. My symptoms were similar to yours actually, head pressure mainly and lost of vomitting. Those symptoms could be caused by a lot of things though so its hard to say. Call your doc frist, get advice, if you can't go through I'd go to ER.
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f13girl
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wondering about Jernigan's clinic myself. Very expensive. Who did you hear from/references who are well? I can' tseem to find any... improved yes, but not well yet.
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gwb
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I've been going to various lyme forums, including this one, asking about it. People have pm'd me with information regarding their experiences.

Two people said they are totally recovered and two said they are drastically better and still doing the protocol at home.

One person told me she bought the book and didn't go to the clinic and she's the one that got totally well in 8 months.

I can pm you the link to the clinic if you'd like or you can google it and find it there.

Gary

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gwb
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sutherngrl and elley, I don't have an LLMD anymore because I can't to abx anymore due to stomach issues and side effects. They only do abx treatments.

I made an appt to see my alternative doctor for 1:00 today, so we'll see what he suggests, or he may refer me to the hospital.

If anyone has any suggestions as to what I should share with the doctor please do. I'm leaving in a half hour so any responses I could get soon would be greatly appreciated.

Gary

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kday
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I can relate to you in many ways. I am not on antibiotics since I can't tolerate them, and I am doing poorly. Some of my first symptoms were the headaches and eye pressure, and since I stopped antibiotics, they come back sometimes. Haven't had them in many months before starting antibiotics. I was nauseated as well this morning with abdominal pain.

The smell you are experiencing may be neurological in nature. It could also be a type of aura associated with a migraine or epilepsy. If you don't have symptoms of epilepsy, I would suspect maybe a migraine. You could try Excedrin Migraine and see if it helps you. I get those types of bad smells sometimes. It could be a sinus infection, but if your nasal mucus is clear, I wouldn't suspect it.

I am not a doctor of course, but I have had all the symptoms you have. I have had odd smells that last days with no real explanation.

If you feel you really need to go to the ER, just go. However, I don't even go anymore even when I feel like I am dying, because they usually do nothing for me anyways. I know I am not the only member here that doesn't like the ER, but if you feel the situation may be life threatening, use your intuition.

High blood pressure may mean your autonomic nervous system is stimulated. However, 144/90 is nothing to worry about. Do you feel anxious at all? If so, the E.R. would probably give you a mild tranquilizer that will help calm your nerves a bit if you aren't already taking one. There are also drugs that can relieve your nausea and pain. If you are uncomfortable, the E.R. can make you feel a bit better, but unless you have an organ failing, they won't be interested in looking for a cure.

Hang in there.

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elley0531
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Gary

what is the book you are referring to? I'd be interested in looking it up. Thanks.

And let us know how you doc appointment went...hopefully ok.

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Myco
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You should try Bicillin injections since it bypasses the stomach. I am afraid that if you don't treat the lyme properly things will only get worse for you.

I did "alternative" treatments for many years because I was scared of antibiotics and had bad die off from them. However, when I finally bit the bullet and committed to them (the die-off lasted more than a year on and off) I got so much better. People don't realize this disease can kill you.

I would really consider trying Bicillin if I were you.

Be well.

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ott70
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Dr. J's clinic can usually get you in fairly quick. They like to start on a Monday with new patients. The first time I called them, I was scheduled to show up at the clinic in less than two weeks, and that was just because I wasn't ready to leave within a week's time. The second time I went out, I also had an appt within two weeks.

His new clinic is better equipped to handle more patients and he has increased his staff size. He now has two doctors under him when it used to be just one.

It is expensive just in terms that it's not insurance-covered. $5000 or so for two weeks of treatment would be very competitive with any doctor, but unfortunately it all comes out of our pocket. I've heard that some of his Canadian patients had luck getting some reimbursements, but I didn't get anything out of BCBS when I tried. They do give you codes on the bills that you can submit to your insurance.

If you call the clinic, ask for Katy or Karla to help describe their processes and how soon they can get you in.

Derek

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f13girl
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So Derek- are you well as a result of Dr. J?/did it work?
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Abxnomore
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Hi Gary,

Sorry to hear that you are not doing well. Only you can make a decision whether or not to go to the ER and I understand your reluctance. Still, it may be better to go just to be sure that nothing else is going on. Also, you will need to do some serious nutritionals to get that GT track back, in balance.

As was mentioned in some of the above posts it sounds as thou your symptoms are neurological in nature and those phantom smells are often coming from inflammation of the cranial nerves.

It sounds to me like you have not be given proper doses of ABX to pass the blood brain barrier in the high concentrations, and it's hard to do with orals but some ABX are more effective at this than others, and that now your symptoms are getting worse.

IV by passes the stomach as well as bicillian shots and should not disturb your stomach issues. Bicillian shots are very effective but IV will get right up to your brain immediately.

When someone has symptoms such as yours an aggressive approach is called for, if not you basically make no progress and the infection is allowed to multiply.

I think at this stage going an alternative route is not the best way to go until you get the inflammation in your brain and CNS down and get some of these symptoms under control.

It is a very serious illness, as was mentioned and some of us have really bad cases of the infection. I would suggest to you to find a doctor that follows Dr. B's guidelines to get things under control but in the meantime if you continue to feel badly go to the ER to play it safe.

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ott70
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f13girl,

I think Dr. J's approach has helped me the most and he was by far the best practitioner that I have dealt with.

Am I cured? No, not yet. But when I look back to how I felt before I went to his clinic to how I feel now, I'm in a lot better shape.

I really want to avoid using antibiotics. I have used a limited amount but prefer using natural solutions. Without getting into the debate of whether natural remedies are enough, I believe they have helped me.

Out of all of the natural remedies I have used, the Jernigan formulas have helped the most. If you go to the clinic, they fine tune special formulas based on how your body tests for them, so it's more than just buying a Jernigan supplement and treating yourself.

Don't get the impression that if you go to the clinic once, that they can cure you in two weeks. Just like most of us go to see LLMD's on a regular basis, I believe you would have to see Dr. J on a regular basis to take full advantage of what he does. Unfortunately, I don't live in Wichita and I don't have gobs of money to cover non-insured treatment.

I do see an LLMD in Colorado and told him of my visits to Dr. J. My LLMD supported everything Dr. J did for me, although my LLMD has different approaches on how he wants to treat Lyme.

Derek

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gwb
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Just got back from the pharmacy after seeing the alternative doctor this afternoon.

I admit I don't have a lot of confidence in this doctor but he's probably the best one I'm going to find here in OKC area. I've gone to three of them so far. Tulsa may have more options for me but I really don't want to drive the three hour round trip to go there.

Here's the latest. The doctor "thinks" I many have a sinus infection based on what I shared with him. He came to this conclusion without even looking in my nose or throat.

I asked him how he could determine that without looking in my nose? He said, "'well, let's look and see then". I don't know why he couldn't have done that on his own without being asked, but he didn't.

After shining the light thing in my nose he said that I had congestion in my nose. I told him my nose hasn't been runny and I didn't feel congested at all. He just repeated it and said you need to take some antibiotics for it. Great, just what I've been trying to avoid taking. He prescribed Amoxy which is the one abx I am able to handle without too much difficulty.

Then he felt my abdomen and said that he believes my intestines are infected and I need to take antibiotics for that too. I asked how he could be sure my intestines were infected without a blood test? He just said that he's pretty sure that's what the problem is. He prescribed Clindamycin for the intestinal infection.

After reading the potential side effects of this abx I don't think I want to take the chance with this one. Has anyone taken this abx before? Check it out on webmd and see for yourself how dangerous this abx can be. User ratings on this was very low as well.

I wonder if the Amoxy would work for the intestinal infection, anyone know? I also have some Doxy left from my lyme treatment. Wonder if that would work? Doxy is harder on me than Amoxy but I could tolerate it for a couple of weeks if I had too.

What's so frustrating about this is, the doctor seems to be guessing and not basing his prognosis on any blood tests. He did feel my stomach and said that it was quite tender and he could feel a small hernia in me. He didn't seem the think the hernia was a big deal or the cause of my problems.

For nausea he prescribed me something called Metoclopram. If you go to askapatient.com or webmd you will see that this drug is a horrible, dangerous drug to take. I cannot believe an alternative doctor would prescribe this horrible stuff.

FInally, he sold be a supplement called Xymogen IgG 2000 DF. These are capsules. I really don't understand what this is supposed to do. If anyone here can explain it to me in simple English I'd appreciate it. Here's the link to the product information: http://www.xymogen.com/2008/formula.asp?code=000019

I called the Hansa Center in KS and talked with them today. I've had four people pm me from various forums. Some here have posted on this thread about this clinic. I am leaning towards going there for a two week treatment plan and continuing it when I get home. If I have problems or have questions they do phone consults. You can look it up and see what it involves. If you want the link I will pm it to you.

They will use abx if you are not opposed to it's primarily a holistic approach to healing. I would really be curious to hear from you all about what you think of this after you read the website.

If you think it's a worthless rip off, fine, tell me why. If you think it's a good place to go for treatment, tell my why you think so. If you've been there please share your experience with me, both positive and negative. If you don't feel comfortable to share information with me on the forum send me a pm.

Many of you made good suggestions and I appreciate your feedback and encouragement. I'm glad I didn't have to go the ER today but it was a close call. I hope and pray that I won't need to go to the ER prior to going to the clinic in KS. By the way, if I do go to this clinic it will be on Monday, January 11. I will let you know what I decide within the next couple of days. I really need wisdom about this.

You have all been very helpful to me and I thank each one of you for your input, it means a lot to me. Feel free to share any comments about the meds I was prescribed as well as the supplement. I would love to get some feedback from you about this as well as Dr. J's protocol in KS.

Thanks!

Gary

[ 01-06-2010, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: gwb ]

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ott70
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Gary,

I was feeling the same way as you before I went to the Hansa Center. I'm pretty sure I did go to the ER before I drove out to Wichita. And I know during my nine hour drive out to Wichita, I kept checking which exits had the blue sign with the large white "H".

Our symptoms are not exactly the same, but I was having a lot of what I perceived as heart symptoms. Just unnerving.

I really wish you well on your trip out there if you decide to go. If you didn't get references when you spoke to them today, you can call them back and ask for some. That's how I made my decision because I was also full of doubt (my wife wanted me to go to the Mayo Clinic). When the lady I was speaking to starting breaking into tears -- tears of joy -- then I knew I had to go check the clinic out.

The nice thing, while you may be scheduled for two weeks, you are only committed for the first day financially. If you feel it's not for you, then you can leave without any further obligation. When I was there the first time, a young fellow in his early 20's spent the first week there and then left because it wasn't for him.

There was also another young fellow who had "terminal" colon cancer. His regular docs had written him off, so he took a chance on the Hansa Center. He left feeling better than he had in a long time with new energy and the last time I asked about him he was still alive.

Now it's possible that he has taken a turn for the worse (God Bless him) and I'm not claiming they can cure cancer, but there were other people being treated there that felt very good about the processes. If you are going to consider alternative treatments then I think they have to be at the top of the list of considerations.

I have tried 4 or 5 different alternative practitioners and Dr. J ranks at the top, easily, of who I felt they knew what they were doing.

I wish you well in your decision and please keep us updated. If you do go to Wichita, maybe you can start another thread of your experience.

God Bless,
Derek

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ott70
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I will go ahead and post my thoughts about the clinic after my first visit. It's a lengthy post I created on the MedHelp website back on March 2009. Sorry for the length of the post ahead of time and for the lack of spaces for those that have trouble reading large paragraphs.
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ott70
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Part I

I took a recent trip to the Hansa Center out in Wichita, KS during the month of February. My decision stemmed from a year of using conventional medicine methods and achieving no answer as to what ails me. One of my more recent MD visits resulted in a comment that it was ``all in my head and I should consider seeing a psychologist''. Sorry, I know what kind of person I am, I know how I feel, and I'm not quite yet Looney Tunes. I had also seen a couple of holistic doctors in the last year and it was kind of eerie how their testing results coincided with each other which just convinced me more that something was going on inside of my body.

The decision to go to the Hansa Center came from reviewing their website and using some Jernigan Nutraceuticals in the past. The Jernigan supplements were suggested to me by PlateletGal and I definitely felt some effects from using their Microbojen product. We all know how much PlateletGal tries to help everyone and inform, so I really value her opinion as something to consider.

By no means is this trip report meant to be taken as ``Hey, everyone, you are doing everything wrong and the Hansa Center is your only option!'' The purpose of this report from me is to let people know that there is another source of health care for you out there by a group of caring people. It is your decision to make on what you need to follow to get better and I'm not trying to sway anyone's belief of the healthcare system. Most of all, I don't want to misrepresent what the Hansa Center has done, does do, and will continue to do for people who want to get healthy by natural means.

My trip consisted of two weeks in Wichita, which is what the Hansa Center recommends for out-of-town patients. Ten days are spent at the clinic, excluding weekends, and the days are generally 3-5 hours. The clinic is populated by the wonderful and caring group of Dr. David Jernigan, Dr. Samantha Joseph, and Katy and Karla. Everyone is bright and cheerful and caring and makes you feel very welcome. I should add there is also a therapy puppy, Dr. Samantha's dog, and he is just as friendly as everyone else.

The clinic is currently one level and set up with a relaxing atmosphere. I do state ``currently'' as the Hansa Center is constructing a new two-story building that will consist of an expansion of the clinic on the main floor with a wellness spa on the top floor as well as an organic caf. There will be other exciting features and the new clinic is being built right next door to the CrestHill Suites, where I resided at for two weeks. Another promising feature is CrestHill may refurbish some rooms with Dr. David into ``organic'' rooms for visitors to the Hansa Center. This is a great undertaking and should be awesome when completed. The natural surroundings right in this area are also relaxing and not stuck in the middle of town.

I spent most of my time with Dr. David, as Dr. Samantha was on vacation for the second week I was there. The doctors like to tag-team patients to provide as much knowledge and experience on the analysis of your situation. I would have liked to have spent a little more time with Dr. Samantha to get the full effect of their efforts, but by no means do I feel short-changed. I would like to state that Dr. David is easily one of the most knowledgeable doctors, if not the most, that I have dealt with. This is coming from an experience of seeing twenty different doctors in the last year. I'm not stating the other doctors were dumb, but I'm sure many of you have experiences with doctors who have stopped broadening their horizons of knowledge. This isn't any different than other professions. Some people excel and continue to grow and others stunt their growth and are content with it. Dr. David is easily one of those who excels and continues to grow with his knowledge and he is a wealth of it.

So what do they do at the Hansa Center? Biological Medicine is one way to state it. From a personal experience, I found it to be a detox clinic for the body, mind, and soul. The clinic's goal is to restore the body's original design and balance to allow it to heal itself. Dr. David is a strong believer in that the human body is more than capable of healing itself if its balance is restored. Their goal is to treat the cause of the illness and not treat the symptoms which is common protocol with conventional medicine and drugs. The Hansa Center definitely believes in a natural approach and to avoid pharmaceuticals. In addition to the therapies they provide, the doctors are well-versed in many techniques, far too numerous to list for the purpose of this report.

My first day consisted of a CRT test (computerized regulation thermography) and a physical examination. The CRT measures body temperature along certain points of the body and gives an indication of what organs are not functioning properly based on the readings running ``hot'' and ``cold''. My results were not too overly surprising as I expected my heart, spleen, and liver to all be out of whack. I have also known for months that my core body temperature has been consistently low by a couple of degrees, low enough where certain microbes like to populate in it. My colon was running ``low'' which is a possible indication of a yeast problem. Considering I have had a colonoscopy in the last year, I can safely say it's not a result of some polyp or malignancy issue.

As a comment, I'm not going to do justice in description of the testing and therapies they use, but they can back it up with a lot of scientific research and the fact that there are hospitals and MD's out there that do use the same type of equipment. For example, the CRT is widely accepted and used in hospitals and by a variety of MD's including oncologists. The CRT is also an FDA-approved device.

The physical examination is at least a good hour with one of the doctors and they determine dysfunction in your body through Bio-Resonance Scanning (BRS). Once again, I don't feel I can provide enough justice in describing what they do and I don't want to misrepresent their efforts. Therefore, I am going to keep some of my descriptions at a minimum. The BRS technique is one that I don't think I can easily describe but it is based on frequencies that your body produces as well as what frequencies microbes (viruses, bacteria, mycoplasma, parasites, etc) are producing. The BRS is something that you really have to experience to have an appreciation for it or at least to generate an opinion of it. I will say that Dr. David's office is full of specimens on microscope slides that he can frequency test against so there is no feeling of results being pulled out of the air. There are also many other benefits to what can be determined through BRS.

My results through BRS were not surprising and actually in-line with what previous holistic doctors had told me and even some blood tests. I tested positive for Lyme and some of its co-infections, EBV, CMV, HHV-6, mycoplasma, and fungus. I don't think that is the complete rundown as I don't have the list in front of me but that is the gist of it. The one that stands out for me is Lyme as I have suspected it for quite awhile. It should also be strongly noted that the doctors at the Hansa Center are not providing an official diagnosis nor a cure. They are providing support for the body to start functioning correctly and resolve the pathogens in your body. The Hansa Center is not filled with diagnostic tools like CT scanners and MRI's and running blood tests, so they are not going to officially diagnose you with anything. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't walk into the clinic with a medical diagnosis already, an example being one fellow was dealing with cancer during my visit.

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ott70
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Part II

One interesting test was a tongue analysis. I knew that my tongue had changed in the last year but no MD really ever commented on it. As soon as I stuck out my tongue for Dr. David, he was proclaiming I had a textbook tongue that demonstrated body dysfunction. He proceeded to run through some pictures in a medical book about tongue analysis on what a healthy tongue looks like and tongue shapes and colors that suggest dysfunction in the body. I found that to be mind-boggling on why more MD's don't recognize something as simple as a tongue analysis. Sure, looking at a tongue is not going to tell you what you have, but it seems pretty clear-cut to me now that there is logic behind looking at a person's tongue more in-depth.

The remaining nine days revolved around a doctor's visit each day and then various detox therapies. The doctor's visit would result in BRS testing, many different techniques - too many to list (gentle chiropractic techniques, low-level cold laser therapy, color therapy, myofascial release therapy, essential oils, and so forth), - and supplement support. Each of the doctor's offices were an impressive setup but also a relaxing setup. The amount of natural and homeopathic remedies along one wall is astounding. I can't imagine the time spent by each doctor to know the extent of all of the remedies they have but I will say each of them seemed to know just as much about natural remedies as any pharmacist knows about drugs. This just reinforces to me that they are two of the most knowledgeable doctors I have ever met.

The therapies, what I consider detoxing of the body, consist of an infrared sauna, an ST-8 lymphatic drainage machine, Ion-Cleanse, Lux IV electronic gem treatment, and a VIBE machine, at least the therapies I did. There might be another therapy or two I'm missing to add and it sounds like the new clinic will have multiple tools as well as an introduction of a new therapy or two. I can state that Dr. David scrutinizes what he provides for a therapy in terms of effectiveness and quality and there is plenty of literature and data around the clinic to read about each device. I can tell you from experience that the Ion-Cleanse footbath was the most visually telling. There is some hoopla on the Internet about the Ion-Cleanse not being a credible device, but I can tell you from experience that I witnessed changes. The Ion-Cleanse is meant to free toxins in the body and pull them out through your pores. The water changes certain colors based on what is being pulled out. Obviously, water itself is going to have metals in it and does add to the discoloration effect. However, I can state that the first day I did it that the water looked like oil sludge with big foamy bubbles. The last day that I did the Ion-Cleanse, the water looked nothing like the first time. The water being used is a constant and should have stayed the same color, so there's no doubt in my mind that something was detoxing out of my body.

I also enjoyed the infrared sauna a lot. It runs at a lower temp than a regular sauna and penetrates deeper into your body to help sweat out toxins. Infrared saunas are widely used and there is significant research regarding the health benefits of using them. Plenty of info about them to Google. And I can state that the VIBE machine did something to me. I'm sure in a positive way but the first two times I used it I could feel my body on a buzz a few hours later, like a caffeine buzz. This doesn't happen to everyone but it happens to me - my guess is I'm more sensitive to electrical frequencies.

Did I mention the clinic is relaxing? They really go out of their way to make you feel comfortable and there is constant positive reinforcement being spread around. Soothing sounds and odors abound and some of the therapies include music or DVD's that promote positive thoughts and relaxing techniques. And for those of us that believe in our spiritual side, there is plenty of that to be shared as there is a strong belief in God and Jesus Christ and what the Bible says our bodies are capable of. By no means is anyone preaching their beliefs, but it is open to discussion and prayer can be provided as a therapy. Try and get that from your local MD!

So those that are interested now are probably going to want to know about expense. Can't say that is was cheap, but what healthcare is? Some of us are fortunate to have health insurance, but even that can be an expense with the deductibles. A two week visit is going to be a different expense for each person depending on what you do. The new patient packet you can request from the clinic gives an example of what expenses could be over two weeks. To be honest, I ended up coming in at a lower dollar value than I had planned for and was lower than the packet example including my supplements. Of course, you also have to consider travel, hotel, and food expenses. Fortunately, Wichita is not an expensive hub of the US. The cost of it did freak me out a little before I went out but then I thought about it further. For example, Dr. David's expense for an hour visit with him is actually cheaper than what a specialist charges you or your insurance and the specialist is most likely not going to be spending an hour with you. The cost of the therapies is reasonable and the cost of supplements is probably comparable to a drug prescription without insurance coverage. The Hansa Center also provides you with itemized bills that you can submit to your insurance company. My initial estimate is my health insurance will probably only cover a small chunk based on a previous conversation with them. However, I am going to portray positive thoughts that they will cover more when I submit some of my bills. Regardless, it's going to work out in some fashion because it's my health. I should also add that a two-week visit to the clinic is not a financial commitment. You are committed to the first day if you back out, but you pay on a day-by-day basis. I would like to say that they told me it's rare for anyone to leave before their two weeks are up.

How do I feel? Better. Is it Lyme? Probably, in my mind. Do I benefit from trying to get officially diagnosed? Probably not, as many of you who know about Lyme know how difficult it is for a chronic Lyme sufferer to test positive. And even if I get a positive test, how does in benefit me? A regular MD is just going to want to pump low dose antibiotics which LLMD's have admitted is not effective as a cure. I personally want to avoid drugs which is why I only filled three or four of the thirty prescriptions I was issued by MD's over the last year. Am I cured? No, but if there was a two week cure out there for us to use wouldn't we all be hammering on the door? I do have symptoms that have gone away and just a few that are lingering at this time. Unfortunately for me, my biggest symptom is heart flutters/skips/palpitations and chest/heart pain. I am happy to report that the last three days have resulted in a lot less of the heart issues than before.

The Hansa Center also recommends in many cases for a one week revisit after a month's time as they recognize that the body needs a lot of balancing to get it back on track for all of us chronic sufferers. For me, Dr. David said 4-6 weeks before going back out and I might only need to stay for 1-3 days.

For those who are interested, I recommend their website, www.hansacenter.com. I also recommend Dr. David's book Beating Lyme Disease, the latest edition. A lot of interesting facts that he cites in the book about Lyme and other pathogens. And for those of you looking for a spiritual boost, I highly recommend Dr. David's book Everyday Miracles by God's Design.

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ott70
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Part III

Once again, keep in mind this is not an only solution for you that I am promoting. I understand this isn't some people's cup of tea and I'm not providing this information to change your mind. It's an option that I hope some become aware of and consider it. Dr. David uses the analogy of the three blind men and the elephant, on how they are describe a different part of the elephant but they are all right that it's an elephant. He feels the same way with the medical community, that there are other solutions out there and he's not promoting his way is the only way. I have seen some comments on other Lyme boards that criticize Dr. David pushing his supplements and some feel they are high-priced. I can easily attest that the Hansa Center has many, many other natural supplements that Dr. David is not associated with that they will offer to you. So Dr. David is not peddling his formulas to you but there is no reason not use his supplements since he has frequency-tested them to his best knowledge of effectiveness. Consider that the clinic has been in business for 14 years, they have seen thousands of patients from all over the place, and they are soon completing a new two-story building. All of that suggests success, that there is something behind all of it, not to mention the sincerity of the staff.

And to all of us, promote positive thinking! It's medical knowledge that positive thinking is good for the body and soul. Focus on the positives in your life or thoughts that bring you positive emotions and stray from those negative thoughts about your illness. It's a difficult mindset for us to work out of, but it's scientific fact that negative emotions and thoughts promote no good. God Bless those who read through all of this and God Bless all in general. Amen.

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laurajeanne
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Oh a lot of what you are describing I had - when I went to the ER they ran a bunch of test (NONE for LYME). If you ARE diagnosed with LYME then tell them right away! Chances are they will at least NOT put you on steroids or at least be more careful with you. ER is tricky because they address immediate symptoms and lifethreatening... so they are not going to try to diagnose - they are going to try to make sure you are safe RIGHT NOW in the moment... then later send you to the proper doctor for complete diagnosis. You should go if you feel sick and make sure your bp goes down and that the pressure in your head and eyes is evaluated.
Hope you feel better very soon!

--------------------
I'll make the most of it,
I'm an extraordinary machine

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daisyrlb
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ott70, thanks for the reminder (your last paragraph) good for all of us to remember and worth repeating what you shared:

"And to all of us, promote positive thinking!

It's medical knowledge that positive thinking is good for the body and soul

Focus on the positives in your life or thoughts that bring you positive emotions and stray from those negative thoughts about your illness.

It's a difficult mindset for us to work out of, but it's scientific fact that negative emotions and thoughts promote no good.

God Bless those who read through all of this and God Bless all in general. Amen."

AMEN! May The Great Physican guide us and give us hope.

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by Abxnomore:
Hi Gary,

Sorry to hear that you are not doing well. Only you can make a decision whether or not to go to the ER and I understand your reluctance. Still, it may be better to go just to be sure that nothing else is going on. Also, you will need to do some serious nutritionals to get that GT track back, in balance.

As was mentioned in some of the above posts it sounds as thou your symptoms are neurological in nature and those phantom smells are often coming from inflammation of the cranial nerves.

It sounds to me like you have not be given proper doses of ABX to pass the blood brain barrier in the high concentrations, and it's hard to do with orals but some ABX are more effective at this than others, and that now your symptoms are getting worse.

IV by passes the stomach as well as bicillian shots and should not disturb your stomach issues. Bicillian shots are very effective but IV will get right up to your brain immediately.

When someone has symptoms such as yours an aggressive approach is called for, if not you basically make no progress and the infection is allowed to multiply.

I think at this stage going an alternative route is not the best way to go until you get the inflammation in your brain and CNS down and get some of these symptoms under control.

It is a very serious illness, as was mentioned and some of us have really bad cases of the infection. I would suggest to you to find a doctor that follows Dr. B's guidelines to get things under control but in the meantime if you continue to feel badly go to the ER to play it safe.

Abx, I've been meaning to send you a pm but I noticed your mailbox is turned off again. I would like to send you a private message. If you prefer not to turn your mailbox back on could you please send me an email so I can share a couple of things with you? I really would like to get in touch with you if you don't mind. My email is [email protected]

I hope to hear from you, but if not, just wanted to say thanks for all your support and helpful information on the forum and in your pm's to me. I always enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your valuable contribution to this forum.

Gary

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Lymetoo
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Gary... I'm so sorry you're not doing well... Just wanted to post this for you...

I've taken tons of clindamycin without any bad effects... BUT .. it can cause c.diff very quickly in some people. Be aware of that and if you take it be sure to take sacchromyces boulardi at the same time. (Florastor)

I took metoclopram (whatever).. Reglan.. for one year without any problems.. at a fairly low dosage. I took it for acid reflux as I was not responding well to the purple pills.

Anyway, at the end of one year on it, I began to get twitches in my lip and cheek. I found out the Reglan can cause it and I stopped immediately.

The twitches went away after a few weeks, thankfully. The side effects from Reglan can become permanent!!! Sheesh!!!

Also, be wary of "new people" showing up out of the blue telling you about this clinic. Just a heads up.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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PS.. flagyl is often used for intestinal infections.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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knshore
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I just wanted to say, I have a bleeding stomach ulcer, severe gastritis and "the worst acid reflux I've ever seen" (my GI doc who is Lyme literate said). One would think I wouldn't touch abx, but NO WAY! I'd be dead!!!!

I am on a couple oral abx, but also on 2 IV abx because I have severe neuro sx. I also get 2 liters of IV fluids a day because I am constantly dehydrated no matter how much I drink. I also struggle with my weight (I lose weight very quickly and have severe nausea almost all the time).

So, I just want to say that there are ways to bypass the gut issues. I have a great team of Dr's who work with me on these issues. There really are ways around these things.

I can't take a lot of meds, but there are IV's, suppositories, shots, liquids which seem to not be quite as hard on the gut.

Just sending you support and some ideas to think about.

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ott70
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Also, be wary of "new people" showing up out of the blue telling you about this clinic. Just a heads up.

I would agree with that statement but I can also state that the people who work at the Hansa Center don't have time to peddle their wears on the Internet nor do they. The clinic is a good group of people who are not trying to dupe people into spending their savings.

Yes, it is expensive. So is healthcare. If the Hansa Center and their protocols were covered by health insurance, then going to see Dr J would be the same as any other specialist.

My wife questioned the clinic's charges fairly hard when I went the first time, and I have had some doubts also, but I've seen higher costs posted about some LLMD's that groups of people are high on. I think all of us know this is an expensive disease on us.

To my defense, my long posting specifically states that I am only describing my experience and not proclaiming everyone needs to go see him right now. To each his own and it needs to be a personal decision on what feels right. While the clinic may be costly, I don't feel they dupe anyone. However, some of their alternative practices will cause some people to feel as they have been duped.

Gary is only obligated to expenses on the first day at the clinic, and obviously his travel and accommodation costs. So while his trip could end up being costly, and I really hope it all works out for him, he can easily turn around after the first day and head back home without being down by thousands.

I can attest that the new clinic building is a substantial upgrade from the old building, and there wasn't anything wrong with the old setup. I would imagine a fair amount of Dr. J's profits went into his new place, a building designed by his own specifications. He really does have a large plan on what he envisions for offering as "health care" and I don't find anything deceiving in his methods. He is only at Stage I for what he would really like to offer people at the clinic as there is plenty of room in the building for upgrading.

Based on the upgrade of his new facility, there is no way that he has been duping people out of their money for years without people eventually wising up to his practices. I don't agree with all of his methods, but neither do I with my regular doctors. The Hansa Center's patient base is formed by word of mouth and they have only recently started advetising in the Wichita area.

I have no doubt that 75% of the members on this site would disregard everything Dr. J does and his alternative practices. Hey, that's fine. I know I have been upfront with Gary and I believe others have that have contacted him about the Hansa Center.

All that being said, I agree that you have to watch out for people touting "snake oil" cures. I am not one of them though.

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gwb
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Lymetoo, thanks for your comments and concerns about people coming out of the blue telling me about this clinic.

First of all, I appreciate what you've shared about abx and stomach problems. My problem isn't in the upper stomach or acid, it's more in the left side abdomen, both upper and lower.

How the alternative doctor can determine if I have an intestinal infection with out doing a scope or colonoscopy is beyond me. He was pretty much guessing. I really need to get a colonoscopy to determine that. My GI doctor just thinks it's IBS, which is another way of saying, he has no clue.

About people coming out of the blue, that really isn't the way it happened. I was looking for a holistic protocol and have been jumping around to various lyme forums such as mdjunction, healingwell, etc.

I was only asking around about Zhang, Buhner and Cowden protocol but then all the sudden two people on another forum, one on this one and one on another one started telling me about Dr J protocol, his book and his clinic.

I never heard about this until last week so was not real open to considering it at first since I never heard of it in all the five years I've been here. I'm skeptical of the light, art, sensor, muscle testing AI and all of the rest of it.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm very happy and supportive to those who use these methods and feel they're getting well on them. It's just that I have a hard time with anything that isn't black and white and prefer more scientific proof when it comes to treating this disease.

I'm a very simple minded person and all of this stuff sounded too "New Agey" for my taste. But after hearing from about four people from three different forums share their positive experience from Dr. J's protocol I decided to investigate it further.

When I went to look over the website I immediately decided it wasn't for me. As I said earlier here, or on another thread, some of what they do seems a little hocus pocus to me. I have a problem with some of his techniques and therapies. BUT, the more I started investigating this the more positive I felt about it based on people's experiences with the protocol.

One gal from another forum said she bought the book and did the protocol for 8 months and is "totally well now" (her words). That's just from reading the book and following his protocol. I would do that but I feel I need hands on treatment and I learn better when I see how it's done visually so that way when I return home I can feel more confident that I'm doing it right.

You don't get totally well in two weeks at this clinic. Some people claim to get dramatically better within two days there and continue to get better as they follow the protocol. It could be several months or maybe up to two years to recover, or as in some people's cases, they never recover at all.

This clinic does not promote themselves as the ultimate answer to Lyme disease, but they do have some unique therapies and apparently they use some herbs that are very effective for treating lyme and company.

I'm a glass have empty kind of person. I'm skeptical by nature and I'm not easily fooled by people who try to pull the wool over my eyes. This treatment does have a lot of common sense about it, but it also has some aspects of it that apparently are going to require me to surrender to it (if I chose to) and have faith that it's going to be to my benefit.

That's going to be hard for me, but I want so much to get well that I'm willing to take the chance for two weeks put my faith in this doctor, his clinic, his herbs and all of the "strange" therapies that go along with it.

One year ago, even six months ago, I would not have done that. But when you wake up daily feeling like death is knocking on your door, you have to decide to whether or not you're going to give into it or fight it. I've chosen to fight it, and I've chosen to believe that God's purpose for my life here on earth hasn't been fully fulfilled yet.

That's not easy for me to do. As a Christian, the Bible says we are to walk by faith not by sight. Not something that I've excelled in during my walk as a Christian. My way of thinking is, "prove it first, then I'll believe it'. I do believe that there is enough information out there from people who have "proved it" to feel somewhat confident that this protocol just might work for me.

If at anytime I don't feel comfortable with their procedures or treatment, I am free to leave the clinic and refuse further treatment. I going into this with my eyes wide open and will be asking a lot of questions. I'm a very inquisitive person. Many doctors don't like treating me because they often interpret my questions as challenging them.

So, it will be interesting to see how this clinic responds to me when I question them and ask them, what, why, etc? I'm definitely not a passive patient like most doctors prefer having. I have some doctors who I'm sure would much rather not have me as a patient, because I believe doctor and patient should work together as a team. Many doctors feel that they are "god" and what they say is final. Not so with me.

Anyway, I do appreciate your concerns for me, Lymetoo. I know you are looking out for my best interests and I appreciate that very much.

I will be keeping everyone posted as often as I can, hopefully on a daily basis. I will post the good, the bad and the ugly, however it comes out. If it works for me, then I will be one of their best advertisements. If it doesn't work for me, then I will be very frank about it and everyone will know.

In a way, I feel like I'm going to be a guinea pig for some people here. I'm willing to do it in hopes that, if it helps me, then maybe it will help others here as well. If it doesn't help me, then it could save others the expense of doing something that could be a waste of money.

Although, to be fair, what may or may not work for me might not be true for everyone else. Not everyone who's gone to the clinic got well, but for some reason others did. Who knows the reason why this happens? It's the same with abx, some work well for some people, but they don't work for others.

Anyway, Lord willing, tomorrow morning my wife and I are making the 2-1/2 hour drive to Wichita, KS. I'm hopeful, I'm prayerful and, yes, I'm skeptical too. But while I'm there, I'm hoping to be positive and trust that God is in this. I'm praying that He's leading us on this path and that this will begin my road to recovery.

Thanks for you concern, support and prayers.

Gary

Posts: 1349 | From OK | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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