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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bicillin - Does it get into the spinal fluid as well as Rocephin?

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Author Topic: Bicillin - Does it get into the spinal fluid as well as Rocephin?
Myco
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I have been on Bicillin for 2 months now. 1.2 mil x 2 a week (done at the same time, one shot in each side). From the research I have done it seems as though any more than this amount is a waste because of the way it is dispersed at low levels.

My question is whether it is strong enough to get into the spinal fluid and neuro system. I was on Doxy, Zith, Rifampin in various doses on and off since 06' and did very well. Not alot of symptoms left but still feel this bug is my my spine. I have pain in my neck and get irregular heart beats when I push on my spine or lay down, sometimes also when I swallow.

Still also have some drippy urine after peeing, mild anxiety at times, irregular heart beats, some minor fatigue after exercise at times, minor twitching, poor hearing.

Anyone know if Rocephin would be a better bet? I plan on staying on the Bicillin for a year. I also have RMSF, which the doxy did not seem to take care of, so I need to take a higher dose of Doxy now and am a little concerned that the Doxy will interfere with the Bicilllin (literature says it does, LLMD says it does not!).

Any advice would be appreciated. I would love to get rid of these remaining symptoms!

Thanks!

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Myco
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No one?
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JRWagner
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Myco...shouldn't you be asking your LLMD these questions? Do not rely on this board to act as a replacement for your caregivers.

(Also, you can use GOOGLE for the answer to this question)

That said, and in the spirit of helping...NO, Bicillin does NOT penetrate the BBB as well as any IV ABX...but it IS stronger than oral Amox. or Penicillin K, etc.

IV Roceph is much stronger than Bicillin, and since you are having heart and nervous system problems, seems like IV is the way to go. Watch out for your gall bladder...Actigall helps some.

There are 2 dosage strengths for Bicillin shots...
1.2 Million units and 2.4, which has a needle the size of a roofing nail (OK...I exaggerate a bit)

Good luck,I hope your treatment works...remember:
Lyme needs lots of time to treat properly...have patience! A year goes by fast when you are having fun...

BTW...YOU are correct...Doctors are not gods...it is NOT recommended to take tetracyclines and Penicillins at the same time...read Dr. Joseph Burrescano's Guidelines (Google). I had to inform a Dr. of this once as well.

Peace, Love, and Wellness,
JRW

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Myco
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Ok, now I am really confused.

Dr B's guidelines only say what is posted below. He does not mention not mixing with Doxy. Nor does he say Rocephin is preferable over Bicillin. Am I missing something?

BENZATHINE PENICILLIN Comparative studies published by Fallon et. al. at Columbia University have shown
that parenteral therapy is superior to oral therapy in chronic patients. Options include intramuscular long acting
penicillin G (benzathine penicillin, or ``Bicillin-LA'') or intravenous antibiotics.

For an antibiotic in the penicillin class to be effective, time-killing curves show that significant levels of antibiotic
must be sustained for 72 hours. Bicillin LA is a sustained release formulation that meets these criteria.

Published studies in children and adults, combined with over a decade of experience with this therapy by front
line, Lyme-treating physicians have established the efficacy, safety and usefulness of this medication. In many
patients it is more effective than oral antibiotics for treating Lyme, and compares closely to intravenous therapy
in terms of efficacy if the dose is high enough.

It is usually administered three or four times weekly for six to twelve months. It has the advantage of being
relatively inexpensive, free of gastrointestinal side effects, unlikely to promote the overgrowth of yeast, and has
an excellent safety record spanning many decades.

Finally, an added plus is that family members can be trained to administer this treatment at home.

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MariaA
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wow, where did he get the 'relatively inexpensive' part? I guess it's cheaper than Rocephin, but still... $500/10 shots

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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MariaA
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sorry to not add anything helpful to this thread...

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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AnnaL
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Obviously I can speak only to my experience. With that in mind...

I showed little-to-no improvement after 7 months of Bicillin (1.2 MU shots/3 times a week). I was also on Flagyl at the time.

My symptoms are mainly neuro.

I've improved more in the first two months of Rocephin than I did the entire time I was taking Bicillin.

I'm also now taking doxy and Plaquenil, and am going to start Tindamax as soon as I think I can handle the herx. (I tried to start Tindamax a couple of weeks ago and it knocked me on my butt.)

As for expense, my insurance refused to cover any of the Bicillin expenses. They did pay for a PICC line and the first 28 days of Rocephin. After that, they stopped paying.

But! I could be paying less per month for ceftriaxone (generic Rocephin) and all the necessary IV supplies, than I'd pay for a box of Bicillin.*

Bicillin = $510/box of 10 syringes = less than 1 month supply for me, bought at Costco

Generic Rocephin + supplies for one month = as low as $350 - 375, purchased from my local pharmacy**

*Unless you order generic Bicillin from overseas, which I ended up doing.

**I actually decided to use Sandoz brand of generic ceftriaxone, rather than the cheaper Wockhart. So I pay a fair bit more because of this choice. $575 for 30 doses of Sandoz ceftriaxone, plus $25 - 50 for supplies.

Still, I'd rather pay $600 - 625 for a drug that works for me than $500 for one that doesn't. Doesn't make it less painful to the bank account, though.

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Vermont_Lymie
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My doctor said that bicillin does not penetrate the blood-brain barrier well, only weakly. Cephalosporins, even orals, like ceftin or omnicef may be better for that.

However, bicillin treats lyme in the body extremely well and I recovered from physical symptoms of lyme after 8 months on 2x week 1.2M bicillin.

For neurosymptoms, better treatment might be the bbb penetrating cephalosporins or even biaxin, which also crosses the bbb.

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merrygirl
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if you are on bicillin it will take months before you will see improvement, It takes a long time. I was on it 14 months at 2.4 mu 3x a week and i am better now.


melissa

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JRWagner
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He mentions not to mix bactericidal vs bacterial static meds.

Any IV will be superior to IM...IV goes directly to the bloodstream in greater concentrations, which is needed to cross the BBB into the CNS.

I did Bicillin for many months...zilch.

Peace, Love and Wellness,
JRW

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swedish lyme sufferer
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No it doesn't
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Myco
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Wow, I really don't get all the conflicting opinions. My LLMD is supposed to be one of the best. He said he has lots of patients on Bicillin and Doxy at the same time.

I give up.

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Myco
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Bumping in case there is anyone else out there who has combined Bicillin with Doxy.
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Myco
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^
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Vermont_Lymie
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Myco,

My doctor, also one of the best, said that I could take mino at the same time as bicillin, despite that the literature says that they interact. I would go with what your doctor says on this.

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AnnaL
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Re: mixing Bicillin and doxy

According to Drugs.com's Interaction Checker:

GENERALLY AVOID: Tetracyclines may reduce the effect of penicillins by inhibiting cellular protein synthesis which is necessary for cell wall synthesis inhibition by penicillins. Antagonism is more likely when low doses of either agent are administered. Therapeutic failure may result.

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Myco
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Bicillin injections would probably not be considered low dose, nor would 400mgs of Doxy, so maybe I am alright.
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