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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Herx Reactions and Lyme Infections

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Author Topic: Herx Reactions and Lyme Infections
Wolfed Out
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Does everyone infected with Lyme Disease have a Herx reaction to antibiotics?

What if you're just infected with the Borrelia bacteria and not co-infections?

I'm still waiting to meet my LLMD, but I have been on amoxicillin for almost 4 weeks because my ENT wanted to clear a sinus infection. Some of my symptoms have improved, and others haven't in this time period, but I have not had a Herx reaction yet.

So, I'm wondering if I'm suffering a mild form of Lyme infection, maybe I won't herx at all?

Please share any insight and thoughts you have..

Posts: 829 | From MD | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BHealthyNow
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What abx are you on? Some aren't as good at getting the Lyme bacteria. And it's possible for the bacteria to change forms and make it seem like you are getting better. This is one reason that a cocktail of abx is used. It is possible you won't herx. My doc thought I wouldn't. Sadly, I am.

--------------------
Lyme, Bart, possible Babs
Currently on IV Doxy, Bactrim, Zithromax, Nystatin, Mepron
Been on nearly every antibiotic since 10/09

About 60% improvement. Dizziness, air hunger remain.
http://lemonandlyme.blogspot.com

Posts: 333 | From Boise | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
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I've been on antibiotics for 3 months now. I'm taking 1000mg ceftin, 500 mg zithromax, and 1500mg tindamax. It wasn't until my doctor switched from Mepron to Tindamax that I began my herxes. And my herxes last about a week.

I thought I would be a lucky one with no herxes as well, but unfortunately that's not the case.

Everyone reacts differently. Thats why treatment protocol for Lyme is different for everyone.

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolfed Out
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So, what I'm gathering from both of your experiences is that:

If Lyme is true, and the current antibiotic is NOT making me herx, than I am not treating the Lyme infection. Therefore, if I have Lyme and am killing the infection, I would be herxing. Corect?

You did state some people don't herx at all, tiffagoo?

BHealthy,

By abx you mean perscription, right? I'm taking Augmentin 875mg / twice daily.

About 2 weeks into my treatment, I noticed a profound difference in my cognitive thought. I would not say I'm 100%, maybe 50%, but it's noticable.

I'm still having many other symptoms; mainly extreme fatigue, joint pain, heel pain, bouts of moodiness -- which is very unlike me.

Although, my symptoms have changed to several forms over the last 3 years, that's mainly what I'm dealing with at the moment.

Any more thoughts?

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BHealthyNow
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Sorry- abx=antibiotics.

I was taking doxycycline and felt GREAT. No herx, but so much better. Then we added Amoxicillin and all hell broke loose.

Just because you don't herx doesn't mean you don't have lyme. If the abx only treats one form of lyme then you can feel better but just be causing the bacteria to hide. It's a ticky (freudian slip!!) TRICKY disease.

--------------------
Lyme, Bart, possible Babs
Currently on IV Doxy, Bactrim, Zithromax, Nystatin, Mepron
Been on nearly every antibiotic since 10/09

About 60% improvement. Dizziness, air hunger remain.
http://lemonandlyme.blogspot.com

Posts: 333 | From Boise | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wolfed Out
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BHealthy,

I see. I have 3 days of Augmentin left which I'm saving for next week (like a pulse treatment) so I can kind of stretch the feeling until I meet with my LLMD in 2 weeks.

I don't know if anyone else feels like this, but sometimes I'm trying to convince myself maybe it's not Lyme. Now, before I jump too far, I still need to meet with my LLMD and get properly tested before I know for sure, but I've been dealing with so many changing symptoms for years, it's like it confuses me mentally. I'm convinced it can only be 2 things:

1. Lyme Disease.

2. Candida infection.

Even though I know that the only real improvement I've seen as come from the antibiotics, so that's some hard evidence right there.

Anything else I should consider about my current pulse treatment?

Thanks for sharing [Smile]

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nenet
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You may already be aware of this, but if you are planning to test for Lyme, it is generally advised by Lyme literate physicians that you be off of antibiotics for at *least* 14 days. Otherwise the results can be skewed.

If you haven't already, check out Dr. B's Treatment Guidelines at the ILADS website. There is information in that pdf about this:

"Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses"

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

As for the Herxing, if one experiences it, it can be a helpful marker further confirming the Lyme diagnosis (which helps a bit with the inevitable denial we all experience), but lack of a Herx doesn't mean there is no Lyme.

If there is no Herx AND no improvement after a determined amount of time (depends on the situation and your doctor's judgment), then it could mean the meds are not as effective as they should be, or sometimes a co-infection has been missed or under-treated.

Sometimes co-infections can potentiate each other, and allow the Lyme to persist even through treatment. Some scientists theorize this could have something to do with biofilms and how some bacteria and other organisms establish mutually protective environments. There are other possible reasons, but that's just one.

So as others already mentioned, some people have Lyme and get treated without Herxing (the lucky ones), and some people have Lyme and Herx w/treatment.

--------------------
Dr. C's Western Blot Explanation

Lymenet Success Stories

ILADS Treatment Guidelines

Medical & Scientific Literature on Lyme

"Long-Term Antibiotic Therapy Improves Persistent Symptoms Associated with Lyme Disease"

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Wolfed Out
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nenet,

No, I didn't know I should be off antibiotics 14 days prior to my testing. So, thank you for the heads up. I will discontinue use until I meet my LLMD.

I did read Dr. B's Guide the other night, and believe I fall into the category of having Lyme, but I also believe it's possible it could be a yeast (Candida) infection as well. Unfortunately, I have not been given a diagnosis, and I'm very much looking forward to meeting someone who is established and can do so. In the mean time, I'm going to work on a diet plan for Candida to see if it helps my situation.

Thanks for your advice, and I'll follow-up my situation with the board.

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O2Btickfree2
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I dont know if this makes a difference but i called igenex and asked if needed to be off of the abx for the igg and igm test and they said no. But for the urine test i think they said you had to be so dont know if the person i talked to was misinformed or what.
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David Miller
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O2B, those are two different tests so there's no reason to think the person you talked to was misinformed.

I've seen both recommendations - "stay off abx" and "it's OK to be on abx when you're tested". As one whose symptoms flare badly, quickly, when off doxy I think I'll be on it until a day or two before testing. I strongly suspect bart and will go off a couple days before to make the bart as detectable as possible.

Posts: 98 | From Maine | Registered: Jul 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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