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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Inflammation

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Author Topic: Inflammation
RZR
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What are some good ways to eliminate inflammation?

I know inflammation can be caused by toxins from dead spirochettes. Can inflammation also be a side effect of taking abx themselves?

--------------------
Tick bite May 2009
Diagnosed June 2009

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sixgoofykids
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I like turmeric. Here's a good article on inflammation. http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?id=3748&t=CFIDS_FM

I could never take immune stimulating herbs or my inflammation would get worse. Also some abx would cause it to worsen, too, in particular (for me) zithromax and tindamax.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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MariaA
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there are several pathways to inflammation and different kinds of inflammation depending on how the immune system is behaving.

One thing that antibiotics do is to kill spirochetes that had previously been 'invisible' to your immune system. The reason they were previously 'invisible' may have to do with their surface protein scrambling activity, or with them being inside your own cells, or because they were in tissue that isn't reached by blood and lymph and white blood cells, such as inside tendons or in joints (all of these are strategies that Borellia employs to hide from the immune system). The antibiotics can reach this bacteria whereas the immune system sometimes cannot see it.

So one of the things that can happen to cause inflammation when you're taking antibiotics, is that your immune system is suddenly able to 'see' the dead spirochetes more easily than when they were in hiding- and it responds, in some cases exactly as though it were a new infection, and this is the definition of inflammation.

There is also the possibility that something is wrong with the regulatory parts of your immune system, and it's no longer able to rein in excessive inflammation. Dr S in the book The Lyme Disease Solution talks a lot about Th1 and Th2 response, and the 'cooling off' of the excessive inflammation by the immune systetm, and the fact that this 'cooling off' process can sometimes work improperly.

This theory, if true, would be a different cause of inflammation than the inflammation caused by Lyme itself as it damages your body, or caused by the dead spirochetes that are suddenly 'visible' to the immune system once you've started antibiotic treatment, or the unpleasant experience that we have when dead bacteria or antobody-antigen complexes overwhelm the immune system and the lymphatic system that's supposed to remove them.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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MariaA
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I also really like turmeric. I should go take a bunch right now.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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RZR
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What dosage of tumeric?

--------------------
Tick bite May 2009
Diagnosed June 2009

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MariaA
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Hmmm, I don't know the answer to that in terms of standardized turmeric capsules. I usually make an Indian cold remedy with it- cup of warm milk or almond milk or soymilk, with a little sweetener and a lot of ginger grated into it, and a half teaspoon or full teaspoon of turmeric. When I remember to do this I take it a few times a day. That's a lot of dairy to ingest for most people, hence the almond milk idea.

I've also done it as a concentrated 'tea' (spoonful of turmeric spice, in half cup of hot water, wait till it cools enough to drink and drink it down with a 'chaser' because it tastes pretty bad)

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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sixgoofykids
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I use drops. The bottle says 30-40.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Pinelady
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What about Curcumin? How can you tell which is best if the bottle say Tumeric VS Curcumin?

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Keebler
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-

Q was: " . . .Can inflammation also be a side effect of taking abx themselves?"

I think so - if body is not receiving adequate support in nutrition and liver / kidney support. The body has to have a way to get the toxins out.

In addition to supplements and good foods, massage is vital as is gentle exercise, warm baths, etc.

As mentioned above Turmeric / Curcumin (Turmeric extract) is an excellent helper for MANY reasons. Magnesium, too. FIsh oil . . . Cordyceps . . . Milk Thistle.


http://www.lymepa.org/Nutritional_Supplements.pdf

Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease

J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD (2008)

======================

This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:


http://tinyurl.com/6lq3pb (through Amazon)

THE LYME DISEASE SOLUTION (2008)

- by Kenneth B. Singleton , MD; James A. Duke. Ph.D. (Foreword)

You can read more about it here and see customer reviews.

Web site: www.lymedoctor.com

=========================

Most LLMDs instruct their patients to be gluten-free. There are many good reasons for that.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Gluten, pain - 158 abstracts

Gluten, brain - 144 abstracts

Gluten, inflammation - 214 abstracts

The same sort of cross-search at Google will also bring up many good articles relating to gluten's dangers.

You can also cross-search at PubMed for Curcurmin, Magnesium, Fish Oil, etc.
-

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sixgoofykids
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Turmeric = curcurmin .... I believe turmeric is the whole spice, curcurmin is the active ingredient.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Keebler
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-
Yes, as SKG says, curcumin is the stronger of the two, the extract of turmeric.

As per Tillotson in "The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook" - those with active gallbladder problems should be careful with the more condensed curcumim but would want turmeric, instead, in low to moderate amounts.

For those with good gallbladders, turmeric may not be enough and curcumin will offer a higher therapeutic dose.

I've been collecting this over time - from my file notes:

===============================

http://www.tillotsoninstitute.com/important-herbs/turmeric-root-curcuma-longa.html

TURMERIC ROOT (Curcuma longa)

WHAT IT DOES: Turmeric root is bitter in taste and warming in action. It strongly reduces inflammation and mucus in all parts of the body, protects the liver, lungs and intestines, and helps prevent and treat cancer.
. . .

SAFETY ISSUES: Due to mucin-reducing effects, do not use the concentrated extract (curcumin) or oil in high doses, especially if you have bile duct obstruction, gall stones, or stomach ulcers. Use turmeric as a spice freely.



STARTING DOSAGE: 
* Crude powder: 500 mg two to three times per day.

. . . .

- full article at link above. From ``The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook'' (Tilltoson, et.al.)



===================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Turmeric - 1517 abstracts

Curcumin - 3176 abstracts

Curcumin, diabetes - 113 abstracts

Curcumin, inflammation - 291 abstracts

Curcumin, adrenal - 18 abstracts

Curcumin, cardiac - 63 abstract

==================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17479421

Nat Prod Res. 2007 Apr;21(4):328-33.

Anti-babesial compounds from Curcuma xanthorrhiza.


====================

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19540859

Xu Y, Lin D, Li S, Li G, Shyamala SG, Barish PA, Vernon MM, Pan J, Ogle WO.

Curcumin reverses impaired cognition and neuronal plasticity induced by chronic stress.

Neuropharmacology. 2009 Sep;57(4):463-71.


===================

From Vitamin Research Products:

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=Curcumin

Search results for Curcumin - 46 Articles Found

one of those:

http://tinyurl.com/y8bd9k2

Curcumin Prevents Some Stress-Related Changes

Excerpts:

A recently published study investigated the effects of curcumin, a constituent of the botanical turmeric, on changes in cognition and memory caused by stress. . . .

In this new study, researchers investigated the effect of curcumin supplementation on stress-induced learning defects in mice. . . .


The results of the study showed that curcumin reversed memory deficits in a dose dependent manner, meaning increasing dosages of curcumin provided increasingly improved memory in the mice.

In addition, curcumin reversed the stress-induced increase in the levels of serum corticosterone, the primary hormone secreted during the stress response.


The researchers also found that the effectiveness of curcumin was similar to the effects of a tri-cyclic antidepressant.


. . . inhibited changes due to corticosterone-induced toxicity including preserving nerve cell connections, and inhibiting the corticosterone-induced activation of the enzyme calcium/calmodulin kinase II and stimulated glutamate receptor expression, which play a role in neurotransmitter secretion and certain kinds of memory and learning.


The researchers concluded, ``Thus, curcumin may be an effective therapeutic for learning and memory disturbances as was seen within these stress models, and

its neuroprotective effect was mediated in part by normalizing the corticosterone response, resulting in down-regulating of the phosphorylated calcium/calmodulin kinase II and glutamate receptor levels.''

-

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sparkle7
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Thanks for the info!

I'm thinking that there needs to be a balance for your body to get rid of the dead debris which may be causing inflammation.

I've been taking a medicinal mushroom combination that boosts the immune system. I think it helps NK cells & T cells. I'm not sure if it's immune boosting or immunomodulation (spelling?).

I think this helps get rid of the debris. You don't want to over do it, though. Its more of trying to achieve a balance rather than an assault. If you overdo it if could cause more of a herx... (boosting the cytokines to much ???)

There needs to be a balance between killing the pathogens & removing the debris. It's a process. If you've been ill a long time - your body may need time to go through the process.

For example - I'm working on babesia. The red blood cells live about 120 days... So, my body will have to go through a few cycles of killing & removing debris. Could be 4 months or 8 months to get the levels of babesia down...

I'm just guessing here. I don't really know for sure what's going on - just intuition...

I think the resveratrol helps, too. This is why I like the Kal - Tumeric/Resveratrol combo so much!

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sparkle7
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PS - The abx do cause the same "side effects" as the symptoms of Lyme. Sometimes, it's hard to tell what's what...
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