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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » what will flagyl alone do?

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Author Topic: what will flagyl alone do?
lundeliz
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My dr. today gave me flagyl for suspected c. diff. I've been off abx for a few months. I'm wondering if the flagyl will bring the lyme bugs out, then there will be nothing to kill them? Should I expect a big flare up of symptoms? Anyone know?
Posts: 72 | From SW Texas | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canefan17
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Flagyl bust and kills cyst.

many docs put people on flagyl alone.

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MariaA
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Flagyl might work on Lyme also- I've been on it alone in the past and it put me into a temporary remission (this was before having a Lyme diagnosis)

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Posts: 2552 | From San Francisco | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lundeliz
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Oh, good! Didn't know it would kill. I thought it just brought them out of hiding. Thank you both.
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TF
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Flagyl will kill the cyst form of lyme.
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MariaA
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I've talked about this a lot with my LLMD- I think all the parameters of what Flagyl does to Lyme aren't totally known.

It's an antibiotic that's used both an anti-parasitical drug used for things like blastocystis hominis and other amoebas, AND also used for bacteria like c. difficile and many others. I don't know whether anyone's actually researched what it does to Lyme spirochetes or other forms besides cysts.

In my own experience, I was taking it for a gut bug early on in my illness- without knowing I had Lyme- and it put my Lyme into remission. It was not combined with any other drugs at the time. However, it's possible that at the time a combination of my immune system and Flagyl was what put it into remission- that killing the gut parasite (b. hominis) let the immune system control the Lyme for a while.

I had had Lyme for probably at least 3 years at that point but it was the first time I had chronic symptoms.

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Posts: 2552 | From San Francisco | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lundeliz
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wow, thanks everyone. I was worried now I'm kinda excited about what it could do.
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Haley
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I was curious about this also. I know I need to be on a cyst buster but I just can't handle all the drugs at once. I may just try Flagyl for a while and then move on to the next thing.
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migs
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In my experience, Flagyl didn't keep my Lyme in check at all.

I ran out of Ceftin and Biaxin and stayed on the Flagyl only, waiting for my meds to arrive. Still on the Flagyl 1500mg/day (4 days off the Ceftin and Biaxin) my Lyme came RAGING back...felt like hell and my heart started going crazy. I got a mother of a herxheimer for like 2 weeks when I started my Amoxicillin about 24 hrs later.

To my understanding, the cysts came flying into action when they noticed my blood was free of abx...apparently the cysts return to spirochete form quickly when given a chance.

http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2009/11/cystic-forms-and-relapse.html

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lymebytes
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According to a study (Pubmed abstract link below) it was found "normal mobile spirochetes were resistant to Flagyl" - so according to this Flagyl only breaks the cysts open, but does nothing to kill spirochetes once in the bloodstream.

Not much you can do w/C.diff - Flagyl will help that. But for now even if cysts are ruptured w/c.diff you can't take other abx that would kill the mobile form in the blood.

Pubmed article & link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10379684?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3

The aim of this study was to examine the susceptibility of mobile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi to metronidazole. Because B. burgdorferi is a microaerobic bacterium like Helicobacter pylori, metronidazole (MZ) was chosen in the susceptibility test. For both microaerobic and aerobic incubation the normal mobile spirochetes were resistant to this antibiotic with an MBC > or = 512 microg/ml. Conversion of mobile spirochetes to cystic forms was not observed when they were incubated with MZ. When they were incubated under microaerobic conditions, the biologically active cystic forms had an MBC > or = 4 microg/ml, but the MBC was > or = 32 microg/ml with aerobic incubation at 37 degrees C. Staining with acridine orange (AO), dark field microscopy (DFM), and transmission electron microscopy (TEM) revealed that the contents of the cysts were degraded when the concentration of MZ was > or = MBC. Some cysts were also ruptured. When incubated with a sufficient concentration of MZ, core structures did not develop inside the cysts, and AO revealed less RNA in the cysts. Our observations may help efforts to treat resistant infections caused by B. burgdorferi with a combination of MZ and other antibiotics in order to eradicate both cystic and mobile forms of B. burgdorferi.

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seekhelp
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Odd as the world class LLMD I saw used Flagyl as standalone therapy consistently.
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MariaA
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Of course there's always the possibility that something about in-vitro studies doesn't mimic what happens in a body. It sure sounds pretty definitive, though and certainly matches what some people have posted here.

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Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
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canefan17
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migs,

I thought mot LLMD's have agreed that it's not that easy for Lyme to go from cyst to spirochete that fast?

I think you were dealing with a co-infection not Lyme raging back.

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WildCondor
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by lymebytes:
[QB] According to a study (Pubmed abstract link below) it was found "normal mobile spirochetes were resistant to Flagyl" - so according to this Flagyl only breaks the cysts open, but does nothing to kill spirochetes once in the bloodstream.

Not much you can do w/C.diff - Flagyl will help that. But for now even if cysts are ruptured w/c.diff you can't take other abx that would kill the mobile form in the blood.

You can take IV Vancomycin to kill the mobile forms in the blood and it will not harm c.diff.

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WildCondor
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You can take IV Vancomycin to kill the mobile forms in the blood and it will not harm c.diff. I wouldn't mess with IV Vanco though, not unless you are extremely ill.
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MariaA
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no, actually, I think it can un-cyst (is that a term?) pretty quickly. There were lots of in-vitro studies on this, too.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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lyme in Putnam
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My son had c-diff (and he was 12). Dr. J. put him on flaygl for a week and dthe third day his symptoms were gone.

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He took u to it, He'll you through

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migs
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Canefan17 - I read this blog and it all came to light...I had thought it but I never know for sure.

http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2009/11/cystic-forms-and-relapse.html

This solidified my opinion...though I still can't kill the cysts then!! I have been on and off Tinidazole and Flagyl for about 20 months...usually 1500mg a day of iether one and the cysts are still alive. I feel good on the Flagyl/tini but as soon as I go off them a slow haze returns...whereas if I go off all abx I have full blown illness.

Posts: 410 | From Victoria BC, Canada | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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