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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Utterly crippling depression -- treatment resistant

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Author Topic: Utterly crippling depression -- treatment resistant
CD57
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Help! I started HBOT and I guess I must be herxing but this is ridiculous -- I can barely stand up I am so depressed.
I did some reading which suggested that HBOT can bring out babesia but my doc said that this is a myth. I have always had depression as a terrible symptom but it seeem magnified now.

Thoughts?

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feelfit
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I say BS that HBOT cannot bring out Babesia, or Babesia like symptoms.....With my 1st hyperbaric dive I lost the ability to swallow several times while being brought up from the dive.

When I posted about it here, the naysayers were saying that it was a herx reaction etc.

Before HBOT i NEVER had a swallowing problem, NEVER.

The ability to initiate a swallow happened with every meal for 3 months...i lost all kinds of weight and was on a soft diet. Had to have swallowing tests etc.

While it is not as bad now, I still cannot initiate a swallow quite regularly.....this is a YEAR later, so i doubt it was a 'herx'.

I know that this has nothing to do with you question, or very little, just want others and yourself to know that HBOT is a very powerful treatment.

It has helped many, but like anything else weigh the pro's vs con's....oh yeah, i never had air hunger before HBOT either....so, i really question the validity of your doc's statement about the 'myth'.

Just my experience,
feelfit

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tosho
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I've read that HBOT is not recommended when one has heavy metal toxicity, but I don't know if that is the case.
If you are on abx, HBOT probably will increase your herx, so that is another one possibility.

--------------------
[Bb WB igm+] [B.henselae PCR+] [Chlamydia pneum.igm+igg+] [EBV igm-igg+]

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bejoy
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Ammonia is a lyme toxin. High ammonia in the brain causes depression, by interfering with chemistry that causes serotonin.

High ammonia in the brain can cause all kinds of neuro symptoms like difficulty swallowing and proprioception issues (like dropping things.)

Sodium Bicarbonate (god old arm and hammer in water) or Alka Seltzer turns Ammonia into urea for elimination, and may help a great deal.

Jernigans Neuro-Antitox II basic also helps with toxins. You can google for Jernigan Neutraceuticals.

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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LizaLu
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I don't know about HBOT and co-infections, but magnified depression for me usually follows a very large herx that lasts for days. It has to be a herx. It's nice when the depression lifts tho--I had a terrible time with the FULL moon a few days back.

Best of luck with HBOT. I've heard positive things about it, but with every treatment to kill the bacteria, we risk either emotional or physically getting worse. With each new downspiral, there's a huge lift up. I hope for you too.

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micul
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It's my experience that oxygen therapies DO strengthen babs and bart. It's only logical that they would because they are both aerobic organisms that like oxygen. I would not do HBOT myself unless I was sure that they were both gone first. HBOT is mostly only good for lyme anyways...it could be justified if that is your main problem..... Doubt that it is though.

--------------------
You're only a failure when you stop trying.

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TerryK
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If you have treatment resistant depression you might want to consider the active form of folic acid. They make a prescription version but that might be a real problem for those of us with lyme disease who have certain methylation cycle problems. Metageneics makes a version called actifolate. There are several that are prescription. One is called deplin.

I could be wrong but I think you were on the simplified protocol that Rich proposed. You must be careful about adding other folates as they compete with the active form.

You may get more mileage out of prescription antidepressants with the addition of active folate if the folate alone does not do it.

I hope you feel better soon.

Terry
I'm not a doctor

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seekhelp
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Strange because WildCondor has said so many times HBOT is the best thing ever. I guess everyone reacts differently. I never tried it. Can't afford 200+ dives!!
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CD57
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Mixed here again as well. There really are no answers for this stuff. Amazing.
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CD57
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Micul, you say in your experience. Could you elaborate?
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Sammi
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I thought that HBO was not recommended for patients with Babesiosis?
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Robin123
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Never have done HBOT - just wanted to mention that a remedy that beat any drugs for me was the homeopathic remedy pulsatilla 12X - got me high the next day - I forgot that I had taken it the night before and couldn't figure out why I was so artificially happy!
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gwb
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bejoy has a good point about ammonia being a toxin and can cause depression and other neuro problems. I've recently been treated with Neuro-Toxin ll for this and it's helped me tremendously.

http://www.hansacenter.com/pdfs/AmmoniaBloodBrainBarrier.pdf

http://abc.eznettools.net/jernigannutraceuticals/Neuro-Antitox2.html

Gary

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Lulu44
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quote:
Originally posted by TerryK:
If you have treatment resistant depression you might want to consider the active form of folic acid. Terry I'm not a doctor

This poor lady has said her depression came on after HBOT so why would she suddenly have a methylation problem - If that were true she would be depressed all of the time, surely

I think you could have moved toxins and or you are Herxin - I have known people say Babesia can flare afrter HBOT although you would need to contact a LYme HBOT specialist I hope you find your answer soon

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TerryK
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lulu - this is the subject of the post
" Utterly crippling depression -- treatment resistant"

This comment is also made in CD57's first post

"I have always had depression as a terrible symptom but it seeem magnified now."

Treatment resistant depression, regardless of cause, may be helped by using the active form of folate.

Just trying to offer options to get her through the depression. The fact that CD57 has always had depression as a terrible symptom may be a clue to a long standing methylation issue which may be exacerbating her response to HBOT/babs/herx or whatever is causing the depression.

http://www.deplin.com/LifeWithDepression,LowFolate

"7 out of 10 people with depression may have a specific genetic factor that limits their ability to convert folic acid or folate from the diet to L-methylfolate.11 This is important because L-methylfolate is the only form of folate used by the brain to correct a neurotransmitter imbalance linked to depression."

It's relatively easy and inexpensive to try and worth trying in my opinion if nothing else is working. Depression is miserable.

edited to add:
CD57 has been treating for bartonella so I assume she has it. Low folate may be connected to Bartonella.
http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2009/07/lyme-bartonella-b12-folic-acid-and.html

You need folate to make neurotransmitters. Those of us with lyme and bartonella or other red blood cell parasites may need extra folate.


Terry
I'm not a doctor

[ 03-03-2010, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: TerryK ]

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dsiebenh
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If you're male, get your testosterone checked. Mine was very very low and that caused depression.
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Hoosiers51
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Another thing you might not have thought of, is check where you are in your monthly cycle. Some months I get terrible depression as part of PMS, but then I'll go a few months and not get that, then it will come back.

The depression would be so bad that I couldn't even stand up. I have never experienced depression that bad from anything else. I would have recurrent thoughts of suicide, just sit still and stare off into space, etc. Geesh! A lot to deal with. Then it would get better in about 4 or 5 days.

Hope it gets better for you.

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lightparfait
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Check for KPU, pyroluria...

Simple urine test.

Treatment is minerals, which help many with depression caused by this problem, which Dr.K. believesw most lyme patients have!

Easy to test for, and the testes are accurate! and easy treatment with depressive symptoms lessened or mostly gone for those who have this.

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Amanda
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Oh CD...

I'm so sorry, you are just having a hellish time of it all.

Because it seems like every lyme treatment out there helps one person and harms the next, I can only offer how I personally have come to view and determine treatments. Because all of us are so desperate, we try just about everything. But I am out of money, and patience besides.

Perhaps it would help you feel a sense of control to think about a "plan" for yourself

My plan
1. I don't spend any money on any treatment, unless there is some evidnece, either from studies, or from LLMDs who have success treating with an approach with a large number (more than 50) of patients for over a year. I don't have the money to try out different LLMDs different ideas, let the people with more funds do that. ILADS conferences are good places to get this information, as are books and other things published by LLMDs. BUT I ALREADY KNOW THERE IS NO GARUNTEE IT WILL WORK FOR ME. HBOT does has a small study showing some effectiveness.

2. If I decide to try something, if it makes a symptom unbearable, then I stop that treatment. I already have insomnia, and I tried LDN and it made my insomnia so bad I didn't sleep but 1 hour a night for a month. I will stick things out for about 6 weeks, and then do bloodwork, but if I am not feeling better, or bloodwork better, then out the window it goes. Certain symptoms are simply NOT tolerable for me, and there are a lot of things out there to try.

3. If symptom is really bad, but has potential for improvement, I will cut back on the dose and ease up. I tried that with the LDN, but it still didn't help, so in the trash it went. Can you cut back with HBOT?

Anyway, I sure hope you find something helpful. I said **** it, I can't deal with this depression, and I take remeron (related to elavil, with fewer side effects, but more potent in other ways). It has helped me at least.

--------------------
"few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain

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Ticked
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gwb,

http://abc.eznettools.net/jernigannutraceuticals/Neuro-Antitox2.html

This stuff looks interesting. Has anyone else used this for removing neurotoxins, and if so, how did it work for you.

I did the VCS test recently, and got only 3 out of 90 right. I certainly have neuro symptoms; light headed, blurry vision, brain fog, "crawling" scalp, headache, etc.

I'm thinking about giving this stuff a try. What do you think?

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map1131
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CD57, I can't answer your questions about dives and depression but I wanted to say....

I hope you find relief soon lady!!!!!!!

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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lightparfait
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Read the "Core" or KPU threads...along with the Allergie Immune threads.

Those with depression can be helped...metals, chemicals, and toxic overload need to be addressed for relief. The more chemicals added...the worse the problem. Need to clear the system!

This should be addressed before HBOT, Photon Therapies, Rife, or any other treatment that moves toxins in those who most likely are not able to detox...and gives herxes as the toxins, metals or chemicals are reabsorbed or moved creating possible inflammation. Herxes!

Ned to help your body detox so therapies can work.

This is a life saving tip for you!

[ 03-04-2010, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: lightparfait ]

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CD57
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OK, KPU test done. that was easy.

In the meantime I am having results with tailored natural amino acid replacement -- I have come to the conclusion that my neurotransmitters are completely trashed and that this is part of the problem. A wonderful LLRN gave me this list.....no doc has looked into this!! Another example of how we have to be our own docs. [Frown]
L-tyrosine for alertness and focus, L-Tryptophan for calm and sleep, DL-phenalalmine for "feel good", GABA for relax.

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CD57
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Amanda I like your approach. You have a good head on your shoulders.
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lightparfait
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CD 57...there is a great complete amino acid product...a powder called "my aminoplex" by Craylonlabs (I am not selling this). YOu can get this online.

My ND recommended this to me before she tested me for KPU...I had immediate positive results from taking this daily mixed with juice...

The first thing I Noticed was my fibromyalgia pain lessened, and I was able to think a little clearer.

I don't need it now, but it helped me get through the first few months on my detox protocol, before starting the KPU minerals. It was a great building block toward healing.

I do believe as well, we are all lacking amino acids as well as the important minerals for our minds and bodies to function and heal...

Best wishes.
lp

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Ticked
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bejoy,

Can you tell me the proper way to do the baking soda for ammonia removal?

I think I'd really like to try this!!

Thanks!

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