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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Why do I cry like I'm 2 years old ? Is this a Symptom ? Off abx x 11 days now.

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Author Topic: Why do I cry like I'm 2 years old ? Is this a Symptom ? Off abx x 11 days now.
lymetwister
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I don't get it. I know my nervous system is messed up from the Lyme. Everything is out of proportion with me.

The anxiety I get is amplified 100 times what it should be as are my headaches, etc.

But this crying I do is so pathetic. I just look over at one of my kids and out it comes like I'm never gonna seem them again. When they get on the bus in the morning, boom, it hits right then. When they come home, more of the same.

All day while they are gone, if I think of anything like this might go on with me for 5 years or longer, I break down and cry.

I can't tolerate SSRI's and I don't know that they would help as I'm not so sure this isn't a symptom of my Lyme. I know I never have cried like this in my life.

My kids are my passion in life and my reason to keep going with this. Even still, maybe I am just overwhelmed. I don't get it.

Could I still be Herxing 11 days out from my last dose of Mepron, Doxy, Tindamax, and Zithromax. I am aching still and I never ache unless I'm Herxing. I don't know what else could be making me Herx if I am indeed Herxing.

Gary

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canefan17
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Hormones

Your endocrine system is out of whack.

Everything from anxiety, depression, mood swings, and headaches can all be linked to hormonal imbalances. Aka endocrine system dysfunction.

We all suffer some degree of this as Lyme is known to disrupt the glands.

You aren't still herxing. You are flooded with toxins and they are just cycling through your body.

Gary you have to find a doctor that is willing to help you detox. That is your number 1 issue. no question.

I think you need months of detoxing, maybe while taking small amounts of doxy(to keep Lyme at bay).

Need a rigorous support system in place for liver, kidneys, gut, etc.

Don't confuse a herx with a detox issue.


I really hope you get to the bottom of everything. I've watched your videos before and it makes me sad to see someone suffer as much as you have.

With that being said... you know you just gotta keep fighting and pushing through.

But it's time to be smart about it.

Find a naturopath with a great amount of experience in detoxing.

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TerryK
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I'm sorry you are going through this. I went through this in the beginning of my illness.

I think for me it was both physical (bart, babs or lyme) and part of a grieving process. A grieving for all that is lost (for now). Also a release for frustration and loss of control not to mention fear of the future.

Keep working out any feelings that you have. It doesn't hurt to see a counselor to help deal with the grief. I think you also had a break up recently? If so, that could be a big part of it.

I know it's miserable but I think it's the body telling you to pay attention.

Terry

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lymetwister
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Both of you may be right. I am one of those parents that just live for my kids.

I use to rush home from work taking chances of getting speeding tickets just so I could see them.

I would always miss them when I was well and they went off to camp.

I've always been a sensitive guy as long as I can remember. I don't want to ever hurt anyone.

I feel like I'm hurting my kids by being sick even though I can't do anything about it. My father has told me he is worn out with me as he is my adult support in all of this.

My wife who left, well, that one isn't such a bummer. She was never there for me when I got sick and it's the 4th time she picked up and left.

I just want a good life for my kids. I have FT help with them now, but I want to be able to do some stuff with them with the change in weather thats coming very soon.

On the flip side, I might just be full of Toxins and a poor detoxer. I go through these posts and I just can't find anyone who is going through the suffering that I describe. Not to say others arn't suffering, as I know they are. I just feel like I have this real real bad. It all looks so glim to me. So, I am scared as well.

New Dr. on Monday and f/u with current one this Friday so maybe I will get some of this sorted out in the next few days.

Sorry to complain, and I put this in the wrong forum, so I apologize for that too.

Gary

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17hens
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Gary,

Don't be sorry. We're glad to hear from you.

I agree with Canefan. I think you really need help with detox.

Please push the issue with your dr.

We care about you and we're glad to be here for you.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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lymetwister
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Besides Epsom salt baths and coffee enemas and Charcoal, Bentonite, etc. how else do you detox.

I have a Far Infrared that just seems to make my symptoms worse.

I will discuss all of this with the Dr.

Thanks for the support as always.

Funny, in the beginning, I was giving advice right and left, now I'm lost as can be. Maybe I should go back to Salt/C and Rife. It seemed to be helping before I threw the IVIG wrench into all of this. Thats when I began to spiral out of control downhill.

Gary

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canefan17
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Exercise is the best detoxer. Don't skip that.

And follow Dr B's guidelines on exercise.

Light, anaerobic exercise 3-4 times/week. never back to back days.


You may need kidney, liver, colon flushes before starting abx treatment again.

I would research these things and find a naturopath to help you.

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WildCondor
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I used to get those crying attacks too, it was part of herxing. Rocephin and FLagyl both did it to me! Maybe there is some other kind of mood stabilizer than can help you get through this if you can't take SSRI's. I needed xanax plus zoloft to get through the worst of my herxing. STay strong.
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sixgoofykids
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My LLMD is of the opinion that a FIR sauna can cause a die off. He also said that at some point in my treatment he wanted to use my sauna in conjunction with Tindamax to go after the Lyme. It could be herxing that makes you feel worse after a sauna.

I agree about the exercise, too. As you are able. Even if it's a small walk.

People do come back from being as sick as you are. Hang in there. My treatment was tough, very tough, but you have to kill the bugs.

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Amanda
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I get these crying spells too.

I'm like you, I can't take those SSRIs.

You could try the older class of antidepressents,I take remeron, which is like elavil, but with fewer side effects.

If you more into natural therapies, then there is 5-htp (although this made my headaches worse). It will make you sleepy, so take it at night (same goes for remeron actually).

--------------------
"few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain

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TerryK
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You asked about what else you can do for detox so even though I know I've mentioned these to you before, I'll mention them in case they got lost in the shuffle.

Some of us need a binder in order to get the die off out out of our system. Epson salt baths, exercise etc. etc.. won't help much if at all if you are like me and like many others who simply cannot effeciently remove the toxins without a binder.

Some of us have trouble getting the debri out of our cells so if we are killing lots of bugs, our cells get full of toxins. My doctor did a lab test called a C3d immune complex. Mine was the highest he had ever seen but he said it is often elevated in lyme patients. Drainage remedies are very helpful for that. My doctor prescribed the pekana detox pack.

Then there is KPU and the methylation cycle issues. I seem to have all according to testing except I haven't been tested for KPU yet.

The first year of treatment was horrible for me. I ended up having to get a wheel chair just so I could get through the airport to see my LLMD. I could barely stand I was so dizzy and my liver enzymes went off the charts. I never thought I would make it through but I did and you can too. You may just have to start looking at all of the issues that lyme patients have with detox if you think detox is a problem for you and the standard detox methods aren't helping enough.

I hope you feel better very soon.

Terry

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Aimee
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For me the constant horrid headaches, emotional rollercoaster and tremendous anxiety were all Bartonella related. Once I started treating Bart these symptoms have tapered off. Could this be a possibility?
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unsure445
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The crying episodes are tough. Hang in there. It sounds like you are doing a lot to get rid of toxins.

Nutramedix has an herb that is used in the Cowden protocol for mood enhancement, I think it is called Avea. And it helps. Check it out on the website.

I didn't know a sauna could cause a herx. I just got a new sauna last week, went in it for the first time and that night woke up completely sick, vomited over and over. Felt totally fine in the morning. I assumed it was a stomach virus but no one else in my family was sick or has gotten sick since.

I noticed Six wrote that her doctor feels this can happen....

Crazy stuff we deal with.

Take care!!!

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unsure445

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Have you tested for KPU Pyrroluria ? 80% of people with lyme have this problem.I was high positive on the urine test.
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lymetwister
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I Herx from my Far IR Sauna every time I use it.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.

I will try and do some fast walking on my treadmill tomorrow. It's been a while since I got some exercise, so maybe this will help.

I also notice that I tend to calm down a few hours before bed. I don't know what that is all about.

I have had Cortisol levels and tons and tons of bloodwork done related to this stuff. Never had the Pyroluria test and will address this also with the Dr. on Friday.

I restarted my Doxy and Tindamax and will keep the Mepron and Zithromax on hold for now.

Gary

[ 03-11-2010, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: lymetwister ]

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canefan17
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Doxy and zithro taken at same time??

There's your first problem.

My Doc would never put me on doxy and zithro

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TerryK
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Zithromax is commonly given with mepron for babesia so this is probably why you are taking zithromax. According to the manufacturer of mepron, doxy can reduce mepron levels by as much as 40%.

My LLMD combined zithro and doxy. I don't think it's that uncommon.

Terry

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Lymetoo
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I have taken a tricyclic antidepressant for years. (various ones)

Why not try that?? Way different from an SSRI.

--------------------
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Opinions, not medical advice!

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springshowers
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Gary..
Have you tried Rife for detox.? If you look at the rife support thread it has been me that posted over and over about how it has seemed to help me with the detox and organ supports and is a great reason alone to use it.

Worth a try?

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seibertneurolyme
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As for detox -- if your lymph nodes are swollen then something like red root tincture will make a big difference. And of course exercise and massage and lymph drainage (either manually with specialiazed massage techniques or using a machine such as the Lymphstar Pro) will all help.

Bile from the liver is one of the main detox mechanisms in the body. But the body will reabsorb bile thru the hepatic duct -- fiber is the easiest way around this. Cholestyramine is a prescription fiber supplement that helps many people but for hubby it actually caused elevated liver enzymes. Apple fiber pectin or activated charcoal or bentonite clay are all possibilities to bind to the bile.

Other ways to get the bile to dump -- apple juice is a very good bile stimulant. Of course the easiest method is to take ox bile supplements with meals.

If constipation is an issue then this needs to be addressed. Peristalsis will be slow if one is deficient in choline. Lecithin or phosphatidylcholine supplements or extra egg yolks will all help. And as an added benefit these supplements may help protect nerves and improve memory. A deficiency in choline also leads to a fatty liver which slows down the detox even more.

Lemon juice is another good detox agent. Also parsley -- hubby used to buy it by the bunch and chew on several sprigs multiple times per day.

Gary -- since you have improved your nutritional status with the addition of the B vitamins etc with your current doc my impression is that your nervous system has stabilized to some extent. You write much clearer than you used to and although you are still having mood issues they seem less severe based on your postings.

My guess is that many of your current problems are direct results of a brain infection -- from whatever pathogen. I can remember hubby doing IV Primaxin and having episodes of hysterical laughter while he was getting the IV's. The antibiotic going into his brain would trigger these spells. He never had the crying, but he had some episodes of Lyme rage and he would get depressed out of the blue -- it was almost like someone flipped a switch.

Turmeric and antioxidants such as pychnogenol (pine bark extract) can help with free radicals in the brain. And as I have mentioned many times before in other posts -- resveratrol (Japanese knotweed source) has been proven in medical studies to block the conversion of serotonin and B6 and l-tryptophan to the neurotoxin quinolinic acid.

But the bottom line in my opinion is that detox alone and supplements alone or diet alone are not enough -- once these infections invade the nervous system killing agents be they herbs or antibiotics are essential. All those other things are more or less necessary to help people tolerate the antibiotics and to rebuild the body from collateral damage done by the infections.

Hang in there. I would suggest making a list and trying various detox methods and symptom control measures one at a time to see what works for you.

Bea Seibert

P.S. If you can't tolerate SSRI's which are supposed to increase serotonin in the brain then my guess is that you have elevated quinolinic acid and would benefit from resveratrol.

Docs do not test for quinolinic acid normally when they do a spinal tap. But hubby had it tested in the blood from MetaMetrix lab a couple of times. His was elevated and became much more elevated when he took 5HTP. This was several years before Buhner published his book and referenced the study which showed elevated quinolinic acid in the CSF of Lyme patients.

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canefan17
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sei,

So you recommend resveratrol?

I was about to begin it with my Bart tx

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kday
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lymetwister -

As you already know, I can relate to your anxiety. I've started cycling between panic and crying recently as well.

As for me, I think it's a detox issue. I am not on any meds for Lyme, and my anxiety still goes absolutely crazy. Before, I thought every med was just causing a brain herx. It's not the case.

I thank you for your suggestions through your PMs, but I'll share what I am doing.

Tomorrow I am trying acupuncture. He's local and people who I have talked to say that he is great. I'm looking forward to it, but I don't really know what to expect.

After that, I am going to someone who is also in town that does neurofeedback and biofeedback. While this may not be a cure for me, I'll do anything to get a little more control of my body. It's useful for things like traumatic brain injury and PTSD as well. Maybe we can rewire our neural pathways this way and even correct what the CNS is doing. Toxicity worsens it a lot, and Whey Protein + NAC can calm me more than a handful of benzos sometimes. However, CNS symptoms appeared shortly after I was infected. I don't feel any connection with toxicity until I failed several antibiotics.

I understand how tough this is. I have panic attacks that last all day long at 150 bpm sedated on a bunch of benzos. However, I am using a beta blocker to keep my heart rate down. It keeps my heart close to 100, but my blood pressure can stay 160/100 all day. Detoxing makes my blood pressure as good as 115/65 as it relieves the anxiety, so there is no placebo effect there. For whatever reason, too much detox can just make matters worse. No more than once a day for me. Hospitals can't do anything more than give me rediculous amounts of intravenous Ativan.

In fact, I am in the middle of a panic attack right now. Very hard to type.

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Your doc may not be aware of Pyrroluria and connection with lyme.So be sure to bring lots of info to him.Nothing I did helped me either and I just got sicker,mainly do to KPU. I feel its a root problem for many.
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Lauralyme
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Could you try taking chlorella prior to your sauna session? My LLMD suggested that to me.

--------------------
Fall down seven times, get up eight
~Japanese proverb

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painted turtle
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My LLMD said that the disease itself was effecting the LIMBIC system, the emotional center in my brain....which was why all the crying. Then when I went through a herxheimer, it all got worse. Taking flagyl, especially threw me over the edge. I did not take flagyl for long.

Detox is important, but support is crucial. You don't want to detox a bunch of organs that are in no condition to support the detox. A good DO or ND may be helpful.

It always sounded ridiculous and impossible to me, the way people talked about how long it takes to overcome this disease. But, it is true. The crying spells alone lasted years. And part of it was the grieving for loss on top of the actual limbic and hormone and nervous system stressors.

It's amazing how complicated this disease is. Just as the journey into the disease progressed in stages for me, the journey out has progressed in stages. It takes time.

I still have enough trouble to keep me in bed many days, but the deep abyss is behind me. It will be behind you one day too.

Just keep at it.

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painted turtle
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And P.S.

Another thing that added to triggering my crying spells was the way I had to become like a rat to navigate a very hostile environment .. the lyme war world. This was really bad too. To have to do this on top of an extremely severe illness.

While something like EFT would likely not have made a dent in things for me back then, mostly because I would for certain forget what I was doing while doing it......it is helpful now. I don't know if it would be helpful for you but you can check into it. The best thing is it is free!

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www.lymefire.blogspot.com

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thatbrian
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I would say it's hormones. Check thyroid and pituitary hormones.
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psr1
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I have done it all: tricyclics, SSRIs, acupuncture, and now I am trying some biofeedback stuff that seems promising. I found I do best on a particular SSRI, or a particular Tricyclic. Acupuncture can be miraculous when I am xtremely anxious or depressed. You have to just try a whole bunch of different stuff before you find that idiosyncratic combination that works for you. I am thinking, reading this, that I should be doing more detox...
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kday
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Oh, by the way, my neurofeedback and biofeedback will be covered by insurance. They may need to pull some tricks and bill it under something like "Cognitive Behavior Therapy" so insurance will pay.
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kday
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I also wanted to mention that NAC is being used for schizophrenia, anxiety, bipolar, etc. I had no idea until I did a search. It seems to back up what I say.

Nail-biting stuff? The effect of N-acetyl cysteine on nail-biting.

Beneficial effects of N-acetylcysteine in treatment resistant schizophrenia.

N-acetylcysteine, a glutamate modulator, in the treatment of trichotillomania: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study.

Oxidative stress in psychiatric disorders: evidence base and therapeutic implications.

quote:
Pilot studies have suggested efficacy of N-acetylcysteine in cocaine dependence, while early evidence is accumulating for oxidative mechanisms in autism and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. In conclusion, multi-dimensional data support the role of oxidative stress in diverse psychiatric disorders. These data not only suggest that oxidative mechanisms may form unifying common pathogenic pathways in psychiatric disorders, but also introduce new targets for the development of therapeutic interventions.
These are just a few abstracts. There are others as well. Our society and pharmaceutical companies want people to believe that a psychiatric disorder is all in your head. If you look deeper, it can be caused by brain damage (PTSD is brain damage), toxicity, neurology, genetics, biochemistry, infections, or a mixture of these things.

[ 03-11-2010, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: kday ]

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dsiebenh
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I, a male, had this and it was caused by low testosterone.
Posts: 252 | From NJ USA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canefan17
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dsieben,

did it correct itself over time?

Support adrenals/thyroid and watch test levels balance out?

i recently drew blood for free testosterone.

i'm sure I'm low but i don't know that i want to medicate with testosterone. doesn't sounds fun lol

I'm under the assumption that it will correct itself when my endocrine system gets back on track.

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Michael_Venice
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In no way do I mean to diminish all the women here, but with the crying thing...often men don't cry as much as women. Or...it just doesn't come quite as easily to us as a normal thing. I don't mean this macho, it was just my experience. And in my life, if I did cry, I never felt bad about it or not-macho or something.

But I will say, at a point, with Lyme....I started getting these crying jags too. I mean, some of it makes sense (life falling apart, etc). But over the past 2 years, on average, I've cried more in a week than I ever did in my entire adult life prior.

I'm only saying this because, Lymetwister, I think most of the replies have been from women. And it's great that they're answering, but I think for a male, it can be even more of a weird or strange experience. You feel even MORE not-yourself.

And...I think in this small arena, those AROUND us, if we are males, DO look at us differently if we are breaking down crying left and right. And that part is difficult too.

My testosterone has been pretty good when it's been checked, etc. I think it's a brain thing, though....in some aspect or combination.

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LightAtTheEnd
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I get the crying thing when I have a flare up of Lyme. I believe it is hormone-related (Lyme messing with my hormones) because the symptoms flares of pain and fatigue (and volatile moods/crying) usaully correspond with PMS.

I don't have neuro/cognitive symptoms. (Unless fatigue is one.) I mainly get fatigue and joint/muscle pain.

I get the crying spells for one to four days every 2-4 weeks, and occasionally in between with a herx or flare of other symptoms.

It took me months to figure out that it was a Lyme symptom. I kept thinking my friends and relatives were suddenly turning against me. Oh yeah, it also makes me paranoid...

I believe that physical changes in my body chemistry conspire to put me on the verge of tears, and then my mind tries to understand a reason for it, and blames whoever or whatever is in front of me at the time.

Any slight good or bad emotion is enough to push me over the edge and make me cry, and then the accompanying sad feeling makes it difficult to stop.

I remember one day when I was at work, and everything was normal and boring, but I spent an hour drinking hot tea and mentally reciting multiplication tables to prevent myself from crying at my desk.

If my boss had looked at me cross-eyed, I would have decided that I was doing poorly in my job due to being sick and was on the verge of being fired, and that's why I wanted to cry. Except it wasn't true.

I have also noticed that the crying is accompanied with waves of sadness and despair and decreased pain tolerance.

So on those particular days, I will cry on and off all day. I usually think there is an emotional reason that is upsetting me, even though my normal reaction to that person or event (like your kids going off to school) would not be so extreme.

Then a couple days later, I will wake up in the morning feeling cheerful and fine, like my normal self. Usually my physical symptoms are better, too.

It's true that women allow ourselves to cry more often than men, but that is not my ordinary response to life, and after I cry about something once, I don't normally cry about it repeatedly on the same day.

I haven't yet figured out what to do to prevent or stop it, but at least recognizing that it's a physical symptom (and not me going crazy) is a step forward.

--------------------
Don't forget to laugh! And when you're going through hell, keep going!

Bitten 5/25/2009 in Perry County, Indiana. Diagnosed by LLMD 12/2/2009.

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Hoosiers51
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Remeron or Elavil might be good suggestions, or a mood stabalizer like Lamictal.

I believe there is no reason to have to suffer like that....it seems like this has been an on-going problem for you, so herxing or not, I think you should be on some kind of medication to stabalize your emotions.

I mean that in the kindest of ways, I really just hate to see people suffer to that extent when there is something that can be done. It doesn't have to be a permanent solution, but it could be a termporary tool until you are strong enough to not be on those meds.

I have leaned on psych meds to get me through, and once I could tell I would be fine without them, I stopped. So it doesn't have to be forever.

With Elavil or Remeron, I would be sure to take some kind of oil like cod liver oil or even just olive oil, 1 tablespoon in the AM and PM, to keep the bowels from getting dried out. That will save you some discomfort!

Sending hugs your way!!!!! Nothing about this illness is easy.

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Erica741
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quote:
Originally posted by painted turtle:
My LLMD said that the disease itself was effecting the LIMBIC system, the emotional center in my brain....which was why all the crying. Then when I went through a herxheimer, it all got worse. Taking flagyl, especially threw me over the edge. I did not take flagyl for long.

Detox is important, but support is crucial. You don't want to detox a bunch of organs that are in no condition to support the detox. A good DO or ND may be helpful.

It always sounded ridiculous and impossible to me, the way people talked about how long it takes to overcome this disease. But, it is true. The crying spells alone lasted years. And part of it was the grieving for loss on top of the actual limbic and hormone and nervous system stressors.

It's amazing how complicated this disease is. Just as the journey into the disease progressed in stages for me, the journey out has progressed in stages. It takes time.

I still have enough trouble to keep me in bed many days, but the deep abyss is behind me. It will be behind you one day too.

Just keep at it.

PaintedTurtle is VERY fortunate to have an LLMD that understands the neuropsychiatric role of Lyme treatment. Most LLMDs "get" that there is a psychiatric component of the disease, but they do not understand and/or choose not to address the neuropsych symptoms caused by the treatment. When you have die-off in the brain, the infections and neurotoxins cause massive brain inflammation...which can then affect any system of the body regulated by the brain (which is pretty much everything!)...emotions, sleep, nervous system, probably hormones too as some on here have mentioned.

Detoxing is vital for lowering these neurotoxins and the rest of our body. But overdoing the detox can be even harder on your body. Sometime less IS more!

And you definitely don't want to start taking a bunch of supplements w/o running them by your doctor first. (I don't think you are but just a general warning).

I totally agree that what you most need are are psychiatric or similar supportive meds to "calm" down the overreaction of the brain/CNS...the proper support can really make the difference between tolerating treatment w/ minimal psych effects or in extreme cases, literally becoming psychotic during a bad psych herx (more common that you may think).

Hoosiers had some excellent recommendations! Perhaps work with your doctor on trying one of the meds she suggested or any others your doctor prefers.

I could not tolerate Lamictal, but my LLMD loves it and prescribes it automatically for all new patients to help them get through tx. I know many of his patients, and most have said Lamictal was like a Godsend.

Lyrica, Neurotin, Gabatril are also non-antidepressent options many Lyme patients report success with.

I also think klonopin should be a staple in every Lyme patient's regimen, to take daily or just "as needed". Xanax is also great to have on hand for the acute anxiety attacks & psych episodes (it works VERY fast and had an antipsychotic property as well).

And yeah, there's nothing like Flagyl to get you crying for several days! [Frown]

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dsiebenh
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quote:
Originally posted by canefan17:
dsieben,

did it correct itself over time?

Support adrenals/thyroid and watch test levels balance out?

i recently drew blood for free testosterone.

i'm sure I'm low but i don't know that i want to medicate with testosterone. doesn't sounds fun lol

I'm under the assumption that it will correct itself when my endocrine system gets back on track.

It did not correct itself, I am on Androgel, a testosterone replacement gel.

In the last year I also had thyroid cancer and the Androgel is rx by an endocrinologist. I don;t know if he expects my testosterone to adjust or not, at present.

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lymebytes
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I have cried more in (nearly) 4 years of having this than in all my 40-some years combined.

There is plenty to cry about w/this disease and yes everything is amplified tremendously.

--------------------
www.truthaboutlymedisease.com

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