LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Help me with LIVER PROBLEMS!!!

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Help me with LIVER PROBLEMS!!!
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello everyone,

Around one month ago my LLMD office told me to stop all anitibiotics because my liver enzymes were high.

I continue to get my blood taken every week, but now they want me to see a liver specialist. By the way, does anyone know a good liver specialist in the Sacramento CA area? I'm very scared because they said my liver should be getting better and instead its getting worse. I have my good and bad days. Overall, I feel OK. I have what I think are Lyme pains here and there. I have liver support called Med Caps DPO. I suppose to take 2 of them twice a day, but to be honest they make me feel icky. Or at least worse than I do when I don't take them.

Needless to say, I haven't been taking 4 capsules a day. I usually only take 2. Can anyone offer some advice. Will it get better for me. I'm scared!!!!

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466

Icon 1 posted      Profile for IckyTicky     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are you taking Milk Thistle??

--------------------
IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND
IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+
Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF.
Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme.

Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Find a good LL ND (naturpathic doctor). Your LLMD may know of one.

Do you have a link for the list of ingredients for Medcaps DPO?

I searched Google but can't easily find that. I did see that it's intended for "detoxification" - and "detoxification" is VERY different from SUPPORT. Many detox methods can push the liver, rather than support it. But, it's hard to find a good link for that product to see the ingredients.

I'm no rocket scientist but if they make you feel "icky" I'd stop taking them.

As this is a very complex area, a good LL ND would be the best way to move forward, one who is also an acupuncturist would be splendid.
-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The ingredient list for Med Caps DPO by xymogen:
Amt per serv.
Vitmain B6 (Pyridoxal 5-Phosphate) 50 mg
Folic Acid 800 mcg
Vitamin B12 (Methylcobalamin) 200 mcg
Artichoke Lead Extract (2% Cynarin) 600 mg
Watercress Herb 500 mg
Milk Thistle Seed Extract (80% Silymarin)262.5 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 200 mg
N-Acetyl L-Cysteine 200 mg
Sodium Sulfate 200 mg
Green Tea Leaf Extract 187.5 mg
(98% Polyphenols, 80% Catechins, 45% EGCG)
Pomegranate Extract (70% Ellagic Acid) 143 mg
MSM (OptiMSM) 100 mg
Calcium D-Glucarate 100 mg

Thanks for your quick response!!! I appreciate all of your advice!!! [Smile]

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MorningSong
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 19989

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MorningSong     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Something that has been helpful to me and you may want to ask your doctor about is juicing vegetables (carrots,etc) and eating light meals.

It helps give the liver excellent nutrition to heal and eating lightly helps to give it a rest.
Also drinking lots of water to help cleanse toxins.

Also Alpha Lipoic Acid is an antioxidant that is supposed to help a troubled liver according to published articles.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9607614

But I would check with your doctor first before trying anything. Juicing and light meals is what helped me the most.

Posts: 515 | From In His Loving Care | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My LLMD recommended that I get Hepol, Milk Thistle, and liver norm to help as well. But they didn't tell me how much to take.

I am getting very frustrated with all of this.

I called my LLMD office and left a message about a LLND, I hope they will get back to me. Sometimes it takes them awhile to return my phone calls.

Thanks again for all of your support!!!
tiffagoo

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Thanks for the list. I'm not a health care provider but have studied some on my own. From what I've read, my experiences with various NDs, etc, this looks like a very good formula.

I'm not sure what in it is making you feel "icky" and it just may not be the right formula for you. You can also try a lower dose or a different approach. My guess is that the MSM &/or the NAC could be making you feel "icky" - I assume you take this with food, as that is best.

As liver problems can have a very wide range - it is best to have professional care.

Maybe stop everything for a week and give your body a rest with just really good foods, fresh organic veggie juices in moderation and more greens than carrots . . . Good luck.

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Treelady
Member
Member # 23506

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Treelady     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My enzymes went up and my llmd had me stop everything for 2 weeks (maybe 3 I can't remember) and I took NAC, Milk Thistle and Glutathione. I had enzymes checked each week and they came back down...I do think it was 3 weeks. I started everything back slowly and they have stayed down.

I am very consistent with my liver support now.

--------------------
Treelady

Posts: 39 | From California | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've been off antibiotics for approximtely 4 weeks now, and my liver enzymes continue to go up.
Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
If you take acetaminophen, be aware that is very bad for your liver.

So is crash dieting. Are you eating several small meals throughout the day? It helps the liver to have them spread out and not too much at once.
-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't take acetaminophen. And I will start eating small meals throughout the day.

I am having no luck with getting in to see a liver specialist. They are all booked until august/september. This just adds to all of my stress.

To make things worse were closing on our first home May 3rd and we are moving the next few weeks.

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seibertneurolyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6416

Icon 1 posted      Profile for seibertneurolyme     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do you know if you also have babesia. It is possible that the green tea extract could be trying to kill some babesia.

I agree with Keebler that the formula looks like a pretty good one. 4 capsules per day would be a fairly high dose of B6, but everything else seems like reasonable doses.

Could you post what your actual test results were on the most recent test? Is the bilirubin elevated or just AST and ALT?

I would try a castor oil pack over the liver area. These always seem to help hubby if he has any liver side pain.

Bea Seibert

Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, I do have babesia. In fact, my LLMD and I both agree that my babesia is the dominant problem.

I didn't realize that the green tea would fight off the babesia.

My results were 383 and 612. I don't know which one was AST and ALT. And I don't know about the bilirubin.

I'll have to try the castor oil pack. Can you buy the castor oil in a pack or did you make the pack?

Thanks for all the advice.

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What is a good brand of Milk Thistle? I really need something good as of now. My liver really needs all the support it can get. I'm drinking lots of water with one lemon slice in each cup. I am also trying to eat small meals. And I decided to take only 1 capsule twice a day of my Med Caps DPO.
Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Is there a good ND near you? It's best if they would be LL but a good ND would be much better able to offer advice. There are hundreds of herbs from which to choose. Milk Thistle is just one and it is likely not enough, alone.

It's impossible to self-diagnose (also liver tests can't tell us everything) but, by reading some of the links below, you can see some of the things considered.

=====================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/understanding-the-liver.html

UNDERSTANDING THE LIVER

Excerpt:

. . . Individual variations in our cytochrome P40 enzymes help to demystify why there are so many variations in how we respond to drugs and herbs. . . .


- Full chapter at link above.

(more below about the C P-450 in relation to Porphyria - a must read - last link below.)

===================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/special-diets-for-illness.html

Special DIET for Illness

===================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/herbs-to-help-the-liver.html

HERBS TO HELP THE LIVER

Excerpts:

. . . The important thing to remember is that the liver is a hot (metabolically active) organ, and so tends to get congested and inflamed. . . .

PROTECTION

Turmeric root, wheat sprouts, schisandra berries, amla fruit, beet root and milk thistle seed are among the major sources of protective anti-oxidants for the liver cells, as are fruits that contain flavonoids, especially citrus fruits.

These should be used to prevent development of inflammatory disease, or for damage protection as in the case of persons taking strong chemical drugs or undergoing chemotherapy. . . .

DEFICIENCY

The liver can become weakened and deficient. If this is not corrected, it can lead to liver atrophy and depletion of glycogen stores, even hepatitis. Signs include fatigue, low blood pressure, hypoglycemia, dry eyes, headache, heat symptoms and irritability . . . .


HEAT & INFLAMMATION

To remove excess liver inflammation with heat signs or toxins . . . .

PAIN

If there is liver inflammation with signs of pain and tension, use herbs that calm the liver and move the blood . . . .


- Full chapter at link above.

============================

www.itmonline.org/5organs/liver.htm

The 5 Organs Network of Chinese Medicine - LIVER

===================

http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art2168&zTYPE=2

THE LIVER: Detoxifying This Vital Organ Nourishes Overall Health and Vitality - By Sherrill Sellman, ND

=====================

http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art1890&zTYPE=2

LIVER PROTECTION: Laying the Foundation for Optimal Hepatic Health - By Kathy E. Acquistapace, DC, NHP, CNC

=================

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/87840

Topic: PORPHYRIA

This includes details on KPU, one type of porphyria that one LLMD says affects a high percentage of lyme patients.

===================

METHYLATION ?

From TerryK, this is a very important consideration for some patients and the way their liver can metabolize:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/77338


Topic: methylation panel?
---
In addition to information Terry has posted there, she says:

There is a page on lymeinfo.net about methylation but it just covers the theory behind the simplified protocol and not really methylation cycle issues in general.

http://www.lymeinfo.net/methylationblock.html

-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was wondering if I should start up on my Vitamin D supplement. I was very deficient of this vitamin at first. And now I'm wondering if I should take it to help my liver?

Can anyone share their advice

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Whether or not to help liver, Vitamin D supplement should be taken as directed if you were tested to be low. Vitamin D is crucial to our well-being. Getting levels up to where they should be can only be a good thing.
-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Remember to Smile
Unregistered


Icon 7 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hooray, tiff! You're getting your own home Monday! [spinning smile]

Think of this new beginning as a fresh start for your liver, too. Keep your new home free of pesticides as well as fatty foods or those with preservatives.

I'm not a medical professional. I think Milk Thistle is to be taken BEFORE meals. I (usually!) take 200 mg, 3 caps/day.

I think the B vitamins are also best before meals.

Ideas:
- Drink lots of steam-distilled water.
- Aloe vera juice upon awakening and before bed.
- Get protein from plants, not animals. Ex: have oat bran with pecans, cinnamon and blueberries for breakfast. Try a quinoa salad for lunch or dinner.
- Eat almonds, brown rice, green leafy veggies, beans & peas.

MorningSong's suggestions for juicing and light meals were right-on. If you don't have a juicer, ask for one as a house-warming gift? [Big Grin]

During the hectic move, eat well:
- Buy bottled carrot juice (in the fridge section of most any grocery store. Plan to drink organic carrot juice soon.)
- Keep bags of almonds in the car/van.
- Order Chinese carry-out and request a meal of fresh veggies with BROWN rice.
- Many quick-stop convenience stores offer cut veggies, bananas, yogurt, hard-boiled eggs, sunflower seeds, rice cakes, and other surprisingly healthy options while you're on the go.
- Go to grocery store salad bars until you've settled in at home.

Your life is improving, tiffagoo! [group hug]
Smile

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cass A     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dear Tiff,

The LLND I go to is near the Sacramento area--in Santa Rosa. PM me if you want the name and contact info.

Currently, I'm taking Liver Life from BioRay, which is being recommended on the Allergie-Immun thread for help with liver support for detoxification.

You could also look up Klinghardt's detox protocol, which is sure to have liver data in it!!

The Allergie-Immun thread has quite a lot of discussion about liver and detox, actually.

Hope this helps!

Best,

Cass A

Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Keebler for all of your help. I have read all of the threads that you have sent me and they are very informative. I'm just very nervous about taking any herbal treatments until I talk to a hepatologist or LLND.

I am going to start the Vitamin D today but I have been told by MANY people that vitamins, vitamin D in particular, can be hard on the liver. That is why I haven't takin any since my liver problems have come up.

Thank you remember to smile for all of you encouraging advice. It is greatly appreciated. Aside from packing, calling all the utility companies to start/stop service, signing home owners paperwork, watching my 2 1/2 year old, and trying to find a hepatologist as soon as I can, life is great. I really look forward to our first place. I'm trying to remain calm and not get too stressed about everything happening at one time.

I thank you all sooooooo very much. I can't put it into words how much your advice has truly helped me.

I sent you a private message Cass A

Thanks again,
Tiffagoo

One more thing. Steam-distilled water. How does that work? And aloe juice. Is this easily found in the grocery store? I will definitely get a juicer because we don't have one. I hope that I can find juiced veggies in the grocery store. I know they can be found at trader joes, but I don't live anywhere near one. I'll try my local grocery store.

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tiffagoo
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 23750

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tiffagoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have another thing to add: Yesterday I took 1 capsule of med cap DPO in the morning and 1 at night. I also took 1 capsule of milk Thistle extract last night as well. Ever since I have taken them I have had HORRIBLE calf pain. As well as my ankles, knees, and headaches. I think the Liver support is making me worse. I think I'm just going to stop everything for now. It seems like everytime I take them they make me hurt somewhere on my body. And I don't think there suppose to do that. Unless, they are causing me to herx for some reason.

Another question, where do you guys get your water from? I just have a PUR water filter on my kitchen faucet. Is there a better way to get purified water? Please share.

Thanks, tiffagoo

Posts: 151 | From california | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Remember to Smile
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steam-distilled water can be purchased by the gal in most grocery stores. Clear bottles are safer than the cloudy plastic. Be sure to check exp dates and don't keep it around long (so you're not just drinking toxins leached from the plastic!)

Have your water tested soon after you get settled into your new home. If there are any health concerns, look into getting a reverse-osmosis system installed under your new kitchen sink.

Aloe vera juice is wonderful. I've only seen it in health-food stores.

Juiced veggies should be VERY fresh. I wouldn't be inclined to buy juiced veggies in an average grocery store unless they were 100% organic and very fresh.

Found a link to a helpful article on Liver Cleanse (thanks to another article posted by sixgoofykids). See:

Liver Cleansing article from Townsend Letter

All that was just IMHO. I'm not an expert on any of that.
Smile

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.