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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » is lyme contagious?????

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Author Topic: is lyme contagious?????
cliftonparkny
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I was told that lymes was NOT contagious or transmitted sexually or otherwise from human to human. I have seen a few post here stating it was transmitted to family members or that it can be spread by saliva or semen. I need to know if this is contagious to the people in my life? I do not want to spread this if it is.......thanks in advance for any information you can provide........
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kday
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We haven't examined other fluids, but whatever borellia I have (I honestly don't think it's burgdorferi anymore), they are swarming in my blood.

After seeing what I saw, I don't understand how it couldn't be passed from person to person.

But that being said, medical journals indicate they can be found in semen, saliva, and breast milk. It's only logical that if they can be found there, they can be transmitted. I don't understand why there is still controversy over this.

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treepatrol
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yes

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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massman
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I studird with a very sharp Nurse Practitioner from PA about 5 years ago. She taught that it could be transmitted by all body fluids.

A big part of lyme's life is to effectively spread itself around, and body fluids provide a very effective way to do that.

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Joyful
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I would say yes. My husband got a positive Lyme test about a year after we were married (I have Lyme) and he had never been bitten by a tick (city boy!)...

--------------------
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...
Psalm 139:14
http://confessionsofalymie.wordpress.com/

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cliftonparkny
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Every medical website I have looked at says it is not contagious and cannot be transmitted person to person. The pediatrician also told me this was not contagious and I shouldn't be concerned about my children unless they were bitten by a tick. Have any of you been told this?
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massman
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Medical sites ? These docs + their publicists are way behind the times.

I feel it is tough to believe docs that choose to stay ignorant. They are just spitting up what they have been told is politically correct.

Kids involved ?
Better safe than sorry.

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cliftonparkny
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I really don't know what to do. I cannot afford my medical care. Insurance is starting to deny claims and I am not able to see a LLMD because of the cost. I am really nervous about being contagious since there is no definative answer out there. I will just act as if I am contagious to be safe. Are any of you out there on disability due to this?
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Need Lots of Help
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I am worried because I am treating and my husband is not. It is a major concern to me. I am sure I passed lyme on to my daughter, and I don't want to finally get into remission, and my husband give it back to me!!!! MAJOR CONCERN FOR ME!!!
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Keebler
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-
cliftonparkny,

Lyme is not "contagious" (as in from the air or droplets from a sneeze - like a cold or the flu) but it certainly can be "infectious" from intimate contact, especially sexual activity of any kind. Condoms are certainly a consideration for safety.

But, systemic treatment of both partners is a good idea. For one who seems not affected or symptomatic (and has never been), Olive Leaf extract or allicin may be just the ticket for them. But the ill partner's LLMD is best to help figure that out.

Experts differ on this point, however, there is evidence. Still, love should be shared - just with points of safety.

At this point, you can't give your kids lyme. It can be passed from conception (mother or father), gestation and/or through birth canal . . . however, not from just hugging, kisses on the cheek, etc. It's still good to cuddle and hug. Don't break that bond.

I'd not share drinking glasses with anyone - - but that is good advice for everyone, all the time and not so much about lyme (as it's not LIKELY to get from a glass) but those with lyme often carry many other infections and their immune system dysfunction leaves them at risk for other things that may not bother most.

As for intimate contact (even kissing), everyone can discuss that with their LLMD and their boyfriend/girlfriend/ partner/spouse. Kissing, normally, might be just fine. And while lyme doesn't hang around the bloodstream, if both have any cut, scrap or bleeding gums, that could be problematic.

Anyone who eats any kind of chip is likely to have a cut in their mouth (or is that just me? - I never eat fried chips but even a healthy, baked, blue corn chip will cut my mouth).

I see this a particularly problematic for teenagers who - as nature intends - deserve some innocence and spontaneity with a "first kiss" and young romance - all that wonderful stuff that goes with growing up. Matters such as this need to be handled with all matters of tenderness and understanding - along with the science behind it.

Another matter that I've seen no discussion about:

PETS?

I'm not sure if bartonella can be transmitted from animal saliva but there are certainly other microbes of concern.

As much as we love our pets and want to cuddle (and that is good) . . . it's vital to be aware of their nature. Their tongues are used for their personal grooming (uh, um). It's perfectly natural for them but their colons contain stuff that does not belong in our mouths.

I see too many people who let their cat or dog kiss them on the mouth. That is never a good idea. It's hard to keep a loving pet from doing this but it is very important to train them - or keep your guard up to protect your mouth.

Train your kids, too. Pets should never kiss a human on the mouth - for many reasons beyond lyme. Just as we've all learned to cover a sneeze with our elbow, that is also a good technique when playing with our pets. Still play, still cuddle, just keep that elbow handy and push away with the other hand.

The "Peanuts" comic strip comes to mind. Was that Lucy or Charlie Brown's little sister who kept getting a bath from an overly-amorous Snoopy?

It is very common, nearly a rite of passage as a pet owner and as we don't want our kids to freak out like Lucy or become phobic but if we teach them early on - and also have a gentle mouth wash handy - it can help ensure health.

A professional pet trainer may have other methods of training, too. But, my guess is that they may not think it's a big deal unless they've experienced failing health from hidden infections.

Another point of concern: Pets should never lick from a dripping water facet used by humans. This is much more frequent than one might think, especially with cats. I've seen otherwise educated people get a laugh from a cat doing this at the kitchen sink. Then, I'm asked if I want a drink of water. I learned to carry my own water with me when visiting certain friends.

I've mentioned my concern a time or two only to be discounted as phobic. Hey, I'll eat berries right off the vine but traces of animal poop in my water supply are a concern.
-

[ 05-04-2010, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Melanie Reber
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"I'm not sure if bartonella can be transmitted from animal saliva but..."

Isolation of Bartonella quintana from a Woman and a Cat following Putative Bite Transmission.
Edward B. Breitschwerdt, Ricardo G. Maggi, Betsy Sigmon, and William L. Nicholson.
J Clin Microbiol. 2007 January; 45(1): 270-272.


Bartonella DNA in dog saliva.
Duncan AW, Maggi RG, Breitschwerdt EB.
Emerg Infect Dis. 2007 Dec;13(12):1948-50.

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MichaelTampa
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According to Buhner in "Healing Lyme", spirochetes have been found in human breast milk, tears, urine, and semen. I guess it's nice he hasn't mentioned sweat. But, how different are tears and sweat?

He also says that live spirochetes have been found in mosquitos, mites, fleas, and biting flies and some transmission through some of these routes has been documented

Perhaps the bigger question is how likely it is to get lyme from all these other sources. That might be a hard one to answer.

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billclo
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I think about the only way to be sure about the whole issue would be to get a bunch of volunteers, some Lyme-positive, some non-Lyme exposed. Pair them up, try kissing only with some, unprotected sex (but with the women on the Pill) with some.

See who gets infected. But you'll never see a study like this done due to the ethics. And I'd think that if they told prospective subjects that they may come down with a disease that we don't know how to cure, well good luck getting volunteers there. (yeah, they'd probably just say, well if you do get it, a 3-week course of Doxycyline will fix you right up). [Frown]

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slcd
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftonparkny:
pediatrician also told me this was not contagious and I shouldn't be concerned about my children unless they were bitten by a tick. Have any of you been told this?

The Nurse Practitioner at the LLMD I used to go to told me after my daughter was born that as long as I was on antibiotics during my pregnancy there shouldn't be anything to worry about. She said my daughter would possibly TEST positive but that in all likelihood it would never be an active disease and I would just drive myelf crazy by doing the testing...
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jac123
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That was 1 of the first questions I asked my LLMD.He answered like this"I am only treating 1 partner I have yet to treat a spouse yet",but he did not answer the question,yes or no.Makes you wonder.
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Tammy N.
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I definitely think it can be passed through intimate contact (Bb is the distant cousin to syphilis).

My husband and I both have Lyme and Cos. This is not uncommon in the Lyme world. Ugh!

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bcb1200
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My LLMD says the jury is still out. IS it possible..sure. LIkely...no.

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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penguingirl
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Yeah no kissing on lips, tongue, and no intimate contact for me!

My poor BF. I'm ok cuz I have no libido now but I think this is where he suffers from me having lyme.

The uncertainty of when I will be better, and when I will be not contagious is what is driving us nuts.

I wonder - once I am symptom free for awhile - am I still a carrier of this bacteria? Then is it a lifetime thing?? Boo!

[Frown]

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 -

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katiebobatie
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nice idea bill! haha!
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momlyme
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quote:
Originally posted by billclo:
I think about the only way to be sure about the whole issue would be to get a bunch of volunteers, some Lyme-positive, some non-Lyme exposed. Pair them up, try kissing only with some, unprotected sex (but with the women on the Pill) with some.

See who gets infected. But you'll never see a study like this done due to the ethics. And I'd think that if they told prospective subjects that they may come down with a disease that we don't know how to cure, well good luck getting volunteers there. (yeah, they'd probably just say, well if you do get it, a 3-week course of Doxycyline will fix you right up). [Frown]

Here is the original post by "bill"

I understood what you meant, "katie"

It was a funny comment.

[lol]

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

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Lymetoo
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katie... click on the "pencil/pad" icon next to the date

Then look for the "delete post" in the upper left hand corner of the page.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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annier1071
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Wow, strange conversation? Again I managed to get scared to death so I called the LLMD. He said "No" there has never been any documentated case of sexual transmission. Woman who are pregnant are given abx by some of their LLMD's as a precaution because of this panic.

He feels that the world has gone crazy with this whole idea and we should go out and live our lives. If this was the case than everything in life would be contagious and we would all live in a bubble.

I guess I am in denial, but I want to believe my LLMD and my husband has no problems, nor my daughters (who always drink out of my glass!) I would rather be dead than to think I was a walking "germ" to everyone around me. We have to stop being afraid of everything in life or it is not worth living.

--------------------
Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin.

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fflutterby
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I like the way you think annier1071, once I stopped looking at life through "LYME GLASSES" I was able to turn the corner and feel like myself again.

This is all too scary for newbies, geeze. I had myself sick over all this in September. We are all sick enough without all this fear. The whole world would be infected if this were true. After all, our thoughts become things. I would rather go on with my life and trusting God.

--------------------
Psalm 46 1 God is our refuge and strength

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annier1071
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fflutterby.
I was so overwhelmed by what I was reading on the forums that my LLMD told me to stop. If I have a question, ask him about it. There is a lot of great information, but somethings are just too intense.

Your right there is enough with not feeling physically well to be brought down into depression too. Fear is the worst way to gain knowledge. We need to step back and just live again. Sometimes technology causes serious issues. WE need to go back to the "happy day" era again and relax and laugh (the best medicine).

We have another 19 inches of snow today in NY and I shoveled with a cane in one hand and shovel in the other!! Yep, it hurt like hell but I could breathe again and I managed to take care of business.

Feel good and step back for a lyme break.

--------------------
Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin.

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Remember to Smile
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Hey, katie, I thought you were dissin' our man, onbam at first but momlyme caught your drift.

The Lyme Wars are unspeakable Tuskeegee crimes x10,000 according to the respected LLMD, Dr L of NY who writes so well. Look him up on CALDA's policy wonk page. Article entitled something about "Truth" (Rare in the realm of US "mainstream" media!)

Fflutterby & annier,
I agree with your sentiments about too much fear, anxiety and panic on the part of newbies lately. That's what the IDSA thugs, neurologists, large US medical insurers & big pharma aim to achieve. We're struggling with dis-ease, but smarter than their illogical media ploys. (If they're concerned about resistant organisms, they erred in letting any of us live thru yesterday. We're the fittest, and we're surviving to thrive!)

Wise to step away often! We all need to maintain balance. Sounds like annier can demo that!

Need to let you know that I'm confident annier's LLMD was wrong about sexual transmission. Sorry.

It'd be nice if it wasn't true, but Borrelia, Babesia, and Bartonella can all be inherited. That's been documented in published scientific journals, even by ducks!

As for protection, Borrelia is so teenie, it can fit thru ~60% of pores in condoms. The infectious dose is one spirochete.

For those frightened by this thread, know that knowledge is power, and fear is the opposite of Love, Light, Healing and God. Get what you need to thrive.

Ignoring danger doesn't make it unreal. Stepping away from a scary thing so you can get your composure is always wise.

Relax, and take distance.

Decide what you CAN do.

Sometimes, to do nothing is the best course of action.

Take appropriate action for you & yours, now.

Sincerely, all best wishes for everyone touched by the Lyme Wars.
Smile

p.s. - I'm a Lyme patient with a broad background in science. I'm not a healthcare pro; my LLMD is.

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Abxnomore
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The spirochete has been identified in sperm. It's known that mothers can pass it to their babies via the placenta and breast milk. It's known that babies are born with Lyme disease.

Given that the spirochete is so closely related to the one that causes Syphilis, it's not at all unreasonable to suspect that it can be transmitted sexually.

Of course, since so much information about this illness is being suppressed this is the last bit of information about this illness that Steere and Co. would want out there.

More research needs to be done about the mechanisms of how this spirochete is sexually transmitted. Probably less so with saliva, as with HIV it needs a cut in the mouth or some opening to get into the bloodstream. One can only wonder.

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Jason21
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Take a look at the "under our Skin" trailer.

If I recall correctly, in one of the segments, they interview a supposed LD expert (IDSA) who says "there are no studies showing LD can be transmitted from mother to fetus."

They then cut to an LLMD who is flabbergasted by what his colleague has said. He states that there are no studies regarding transmittal from mother to fetus BECAUSE NO STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE! He goes on to say that he has had many cases in which mothers gave birth to babies who tested positive for LD.

Regarding sexual or bodily fluid transmission, there are some studies showing sexual transmission of TBDs in animals, but I cannot find any studies done of humans.

For what it is worth, my wife started having LD symptoms about 2 years after I did, which was about 11 years ago. She and my 2 youngest children have all tested positive for LD. None of them have had any tick contact that we are aware of. My oldest daughter is 15 and does not show any signs of TBDs, but she was born before I think I was infected.

--------------------
Igenex WB IgM 28+, 31IND, 34IND, 41+
WB IgG 30+, 31IND,39 IND, 41++++, 58+, 83-93IND
CD57 = 56
Prob infected since 2000
Doxy, Zith, Biaxin, Flagyl, Levaquin, Tindamax, Cipro
Highly Recommended: Trigger Point Therapy Workbook by Clair Davies

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