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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Olive Leaf dose/timing question

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Author Topic: Olive Leaf dose/timing question
julielynne4
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I have Olive Leaf capsules that are 470mg. I have not taken them since last summer because I was herxing from them too much so I eventually just stopped taking it.

I would like to start it up again, as I have continuing yeast isses, but I am not sure about how much to take and what I can and cannot take it with.

I am thinking I would like to just dump some of the capsule out and take maybe 1/4 or 1/2 of a capsule to start. If I do this, can I dump it into water? The bottle says take 3 capsules per day - but this seems like too much at first.

I also have florastor and ultima flora that i just purchased tonight. Can the olive leaf be taken with these?

My other supplements - are they ok to be taken at the same time as the olive leaf?

Thank you so much. JL

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Keebler
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Q: " . . . florastor and ultima flora that i just purchased tonight. Can the olive leaf be taken with these?"

NO. OLE will destroy probiotics. Take at opposite times, or at least several hours apart.

Other than probiotics, other supplements can generally be taken along with OLE. OLE can be taken with or without a meal. If you find it too strong, take with food.

Starting with a low dose, less often, is a good idea.

I don't know about taking loose in water. You could try just a bit but one concern is that you'd breathe in some powder and get a choking cough. It's not going to dissolve unless very finely ground. It's likely got rougher bits and pieces. Just be sure the contents of the capsule get all wet before you swallow.

I've chewed some OLE caplets so it's not caustic or burning hot like garlic can be but I suggest chasing with a good amount of water.

If you have some empty capsules, you could try that.
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julielynne4
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Thank you Keebler, I know you have responded to so many posts, I usually try to find the answers to my questions by using the "search" option...I read through a bunch of posts on Olive Leaf, but still had questions.

Thanks again. Glad I didn't start taking Olive Leaf WITH the other two I mentioned. I had a feeling it would not make sense.

I am hoping this helps with my yeast issues. JL

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julielynne4
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So last night I had half of a capsule of Olive Leaf. Would it be possible that this could result in a herx-like situation? Specifically, I have burning pain throughout my neck/shoulder area that I have not had for several weeks/months.

I am not currently on antibiotics, I have finished with my prescription and have to wait until my next LLMD visit.

JL

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Keebler
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julielynne,

First, about your report of "burning pain throughout my neck/shoulder area" -- does mean deep tissue, right? Not from the inside of the throat?

I have never any kind of adverse reaction from OLE. It's always worked very well for me in all regards. But not everyone has that experience and it may not be the ticket for everyone.

As I've never taken it alone, the difference could be that I've always also had a full range of liver support to complement it.

It does seem very likely that your reaction is a die-off reaction, possibly from candida (or other fungi) but it could be from just about anything as it has broad effect on various microbes.

Are you also taking liver support such as milk thistle, etc.? Magnesium should help with muscle burn and die-off pain. Fish oil and Turmeric/Curcumin, too. All those are excellent to help the body rid toxins and increase circulation.

Does a warm epson salt bath help? Massage? Yoga? Tai Chi or Qi Gong - to help increase circulation and release tension blocks - is also good.

What is the brand of OLE you are using? Other ingredients in it? Check the expiration date. As you've had this bottle since last summer, was it exposed to excessive heat or humidity?

You might also consider switching to drops (tincture) as the dose could then be much better controlled.

Or - this just might not be the one for you. As the effects seem to be deep muscle, it does point to die-off reaction. If so, no other agent would likely be any better. Die-off has to be managed.

You might get the Morton Walker book from Amazon (just $6.00).

Hope you feel better.
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[ 05-08-2010, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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J,

you can search your past threads by just clicking onto your name and searching your post history. You can even get a list of just the threads that you started.
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Keebler
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Detail from two of the most reputable sources of OLE:

www.olivus.com/cautions_olive_leaf.htm

Olivus Olive Leaf Extract:

Excerpt:

Die-off effects -- Olive leaf use causes the death of microbes. The liver, kidneys, intestines and skin are therefore tested to their limits, to deal with, and remove them. This causes Herxheimers Reaction, which can have a variety of symptoms, but basically makes one feel ill or under the weather due to a treatment's effect upon the body.

Thus, "die-off," referred to in medicine as the "Herxheimer reaction," occurs when the olive leaf components kills large numbers of harmful germs rather quickly. Then, the patient's membranes absorb toxic products from these dead microorganisms.

The large amount of foreign antigens triggers an increasing immune response, in addition to interfering with usual biochemical processes, and these immune effects can temporarily worsen a person's symptoms. . . .

Symptoms
The symptoms include fatigue, diarrhea, muscle and joint pains, headaches, rashes, flu-like symptoms and even pimples.

These symptoms indicate that the herb is working and that a range of microbes and toxins have been eliminated and are in the process of being removed from your system. These symptoms can be reduced by increasing your fluid intake - but if they persist, reduce the dosage.

. . . . See details at link:

* Safety Precautions
 and * Known Drug Interactions


==================

http://www.seagateproducts.com/olive-leaf-extract.html

Seagate Olive Leaf Extract

Excerpt:

Side Effects: Olive leaves have been used safely for thousands of years. The only known side-effect is the possibility of a Herxheimer reaction, an allergic response caused by the rapid die-off of fungi that release toxins which may temporarily cause a brief allergic reaction, lasting for several days.
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Keebler
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www.amazon.com/Olive-Leaf-Extract-Morton-Walker/dp/1575662264/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265402342&sr=1-1

Book: Olive Leaf Extract - by Dr. Morton Walker

=====================

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=Olive_Leaf_Extract

From the library at Vitamin Research Products -- Many articles on Olive Leaf Extract with good 3rd party documentation and a list of sources at the end of each article.

====================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Olive Leaf Extract - 80 abstracts

==============

http://www.cogito.org/Articles/ArticleDetail.aspx?ContentID=15951

Biofilm . . . Terminalia chebula . . .

--------------
An Olive Leaf formula (that contains Terminalia chebula):

My ND (naturopathic doctor) recommended MYROLEA B. Most naturopathic doctors and acupuncturists know about the Seven Forest formulas. As this is a combination formula, there are ingredients included to help the body with "clearing heat" and metabolizing toxins.

==================

http://www.acuatlanta.net/myroleab-tablets-p-22018.html

Manufacturer: White Tiger

Name: Myrolea-B

Myrolea-B is also known as: Olive leaf extract with Chinese herbs

==================

http://chineseherbs.net/article_info-articles_id-2.html

===================

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/flu.htm

Myrolea-B (White Tiger) is a simple formulation of highly concentrated extracts from four Chinese herbs and one Western herb.

The Chinese herbs include forsythia and lonicera, two of the key ingredients of Ilex 15 (and the main antiviral ingredients of Yin Qiao Jie Du Pian), thus boosting the dosage of these essential ingredients.

Myrolea-B also contains the antiviral agents scute (huangqin) and terminalia (hezi). The Western herb in this formulation is olive leaf, which is one of the primary anti-viral herbs derived from the European tradition.

=================

A history of this formula:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/shuang.htm

SHUANGHUANGLIAN: Potent Anti-Infection Combination of Lonicera, Forsythia, and Scute - by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine - 2003

Shuanghuanglian (SHL for short) is a modern formula that was devised in the 1960s to treat a variety of infections. It is comprised of the alcohol-water extracts of three herbs: lonicera (shuanghua, often called jinyinhua), scute (huangqin), and forsythia (lianqiao). . . .

. . . One of the early preparations of the SHL was a tablet made of equal proportions of the extracts of each herb. This was used to treat leptospirosis, a disorder caused by a spirochete bacteria, related to the organism that causes Lyme disease.

Leptospirosis causes initial symptoms of fever and chills, headache, and muscle ache (especially in the shoulders); these are consistent with "flu-like" symptoms described for the onset of many acute infections.

In a 1971 report, the formula was described as being made in 500 mg tablets derived from 3.7 grams of the crude herbs, and being administered in doses of 10-15 tablets (thus, equivalent to the extract of 37-55 grams of herbs) every 6 hours (1), a very high dosage.

. . . Recently, Shuanghuanglian has been applied successfully to treatment of Coxsackie B3,

. . . The general indications for SHL . . . are "relieving the exterior syndrome, clearing away heat and toxic material," and its indications are "treatment of fever, cough, and sore throat that arise from wind-heat syndrome."

It is said to have "a good action in treating upper respiratory tract infection, tonsillitis, laryngopharyngitis, pneumonia, acute enteritis, viral dysentery, etc., when caused by virus or bacterial infection."

- full article at link above.

===================

Now, if interested, you can go back to PubMed and look up each ingredient in the Myrolea-B for a better understanding of each ingredient.

PubMed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
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Keebler
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All links below are from an excellent reference book for your book shelf. Generously, the author has also made it possible to learn much at the site:

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com

The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Alan Tillotson, et.al.)
---------------------------

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/understanding-the-liver.html

UNDERSTANDING THE LIVER

====================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/herbs-to-help-the-liver.html

HERBS TO HELP THE LIVER

Excerpts:

. . . The important thing to remember is that the liver is a hot (metabolically active) organ, and so tends to get congested and inflamed. . . .

PROTECTION

Turmeric root, wheat sprouts, schisandra berries, amla fruit, beet root and milk thistle seed are among the major sources of protective anti-oxidants for the liver cells, as are fruits that contain flavonoids, especially citrus fruits.

These should be used to prevent development of inflammatory disease, or for damage protection as in the case of persons taking strong chemical drugs or undergoing chemotherapy. . . .

DEFICIENCY

The liver can become weakened and deficient. If this is not corrected, it can lead to liver atrophy and depletion of glycogen stores, even hepatitis. Signs include fatigue, low blood pressure, hypoglycemia, dry eyes, headache, heat symptoms and irritability . . . .

HEAT & INFLAMMATION

To remove excess liver inflammation with heat signs or toxins . . . .

PAIN

If there is liver inflammation with signs of pain and tension, use herbs that calm the liver and move the blood . . . .

- Full chapter at link above.

=====================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/special-diets-for-illness.html

Special DIET for Illness

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Keebler
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Now, after all that, it's really best to have a LL ND (naturopathic doctor) or a LL L.Ac. (acupuncturist) guide you.

NDs have four + years of medical college education just in herbs, chemistry, physiology, etc. The training for acupuncturist is similar (but not exactly the same), still, with years of education. You can always ask about their eduction and experience and a good ND or L.Ac. would love to share that. They know important things that would not even occur to us.

Maybe your LLMD has some suggestions. Many LLMDs have a good working relationship with some and some NDs are also ILADS-educated. That would be ideal.

Sadly, NDs and L.Ac.s are yet not licensed in every state but you can web-search for their national professional organizations to find out about where you live.
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lymebytes
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Olive Leaf kills a lot. I have researched it extensively. I take it and have had herxes on it to the point of having to back off some and restart later. I usually take it w/food in the early evening.

I believe, but cannot prove, that it killed Ehrlichia (co-infection) in me. All I do know is that my blood test titers starting dropping after starting OLE until they went negative after a year and a half of OLE.

It is not really how many mg's you take it is the Oleuropein percentage.

Morton Walker's book is very good and I recommend it.

Here is a link on all that it can kil and more links to study:
http://www.truthaboutlymedisease.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=638

Thanks Keebler for a good link on OLE herxing.

--------------------
www.truthaboutlymedisease.com

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Keebler
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Lymebytes,

thanks for the additional links. I love reading about OLE.

To save others disappointment, I want to add that while OLE can be wonderful, it is not a cure in the way we want to think of a cure. I just don't want anyone staking their life on it as a single treatment. As part of plan, it can be a major helper but should also be rotated on and off every so often, as should most other supplements.

I relied on it for a full year (several years ago). But, that's all I had access to at that time. I saw some good progress and I did not die as seemed quite likely at that time -- so, yeah, maybe it worked to keep me alive. It helped me learn to walk, talk and read again over time, but it (or I) fell very short of a grand miracle. Alone, it was not enough.

It had been very impressive, however, at a time with I was also on doxycycline. I had absolutely zero problems with candida with the protection of OLE. Zero. For my body, that was a major feat.

And, for myself, just OLE was far more effective than any antibiotic I've been on. But I've never had a LLMD and just had to sort of shoot in the dark. My liver and my ears also just can't tolerate much in the way of abx. So, for me, OLE was a huge help, especially when I became allergic to doxycycline.

Of all the thousands of medicinal herbs in the world, OLE is clearly one of the most impressive. Still, we just have to keep our expectations in perspective as we consider the full picture.

This past year, I found andrographis to be equally as impressive in addressing some neurological symptoms but OLE is much easier to tolerate. Curcumin is becoming my best support for general antioxidant help.

I continue to dream of a time in our country when naturopathic medicine combined with allopathic for true complementary approach will be the norm in every medical office, every hospital and every emergency room.

I know there is no chance but our system so broken and we all need some nurturing and help from nature to offset the harsh corporate business model that adds so much stress to a human body in medical distress.
-

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Keebler
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LIQUID - DROPS

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Olive-Leaf-Glycerite-Alcohol-Free-2-fl-oz-60-ml/749?at=0

Now Foods, Olive Leaf Glycerite, Alcohol Free, 2 fl oz, 60 ml

Olive Leaf Extract (Olea europaea)(Leaf)(standardized to 18% Oleuropein)

Per Serving: 200 mg

Serving Size 2 Droppersful (1.6 ml)

Servings Per Container 37

Other Ingredients: Vegetable Glycerin and Water.

Contains no yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, milk or artificial flavors or colors.

Alcohol-Free Vegetarian Formula.
-

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sparkle7
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I was taking OLE on & off but my medical dowsing is suggesting that I should get more into OLE. Thanks for all the great info! It seems like one of those incredible herbs that are under recognized. Not a cure-all, of course - but something very worth while to study.
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seekhelp
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I do not believe OLE is that 'powerful.' I take 1,500 mg a day of 18% concentration capsules. I have no doubt I have some yeast issues and don't get massive reaction.
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sparkle7
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Have you tried Yeast Cleanse by Solaray? It really helped me.

I'm not taking it for yeast. I was more interested in it's anti-viral properties. There are alot of studies about it.

Which brand are you using, seekhelp?

---

http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-olive-leaf.html

excerpt-

From research and clinical experience to date, we can say that supplemental olive leaf may be beneficial in the treatment for conditions caused by, or associated with, a virus, retrovirus, bacterium or protozoan.

Among those treatable conditions are: influenza, the common cold, candida infections, meningitis, Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), encephalitis, herpes I and II, human herpes virus 6 and 7, shingles (Herpes zoster), HIV/ARC/AIDS, chronic fatigue, hepatitis B, pneumonia, tuberculosis, gonorrhea, malaria, dengue, severe diarrhea, and dental, ear, urinary tract and surgical infections.

-

Research suggests that olive leaf may be a true anti-viral compound because it appears to selectively block an entire virus-specific system in the infected host.

This appears to offer healing effects not addressed by pharmaceutical antibiotics.

Olive leaf's broad killing power includes an ability to interfere with critical amino acid production for viruses; an ability to contain viral infection and/or spread by inactivating viruses by preventing virus shredding, budding or assembly at the cell membrane; the ability to directly penetrate infected cells and stop viral replication.

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Elizabeth S.
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julielynne4:

Olive leaf is a WONDERFUL option when you're off antibiotics.

1.) Your Olive leaf extract (OLE) should be standardized to around 20% oleuropein, although the other chemicals in olive leaf are what primarily cross the blood-brain barrier.

2.) 450-ish mg, every 6 hrs, is good for both Lyme/coinfections as well as candida. Just remember to STAY HYDRATED. It WILL cause herxing, it is a very powerful herb, and how much you herx depends on how much of a pathogen load you have. These symptoms are usually the same as what you'd have if you were taking other antibiotics, antifungals, etc. It's probably not an "adverse effect" unless it's lowering your blood pressure too much, or causing stomach upset.

I cannot use any of the store brand OLE, because they all have cellulose in them. Cellulose, in my case, not only lowers the effectiveness of it but causes me terrible stomach pain. So if you can, order from somewhere like Puritan's Pride or just try to find one without cellulose as a filler.

3.) The main ingredient in OLE (oleuropein) will stay in your blood for 12 hours if you take it WITH food or shortly after eating. If you take it on an empty stomach, it only lasts about 3 hours, and it might make you nauseated to boot.


Note that, I was on OLE before and after candida issues, and it did not stop the problem from happening. PREVENTION of the candida should be the number one priority, though I have no doube OLE kept it from becoming too severe.

I take my OLE about fifteen minutes before my antibiotic, and then take probiotics two hours later. Basically, consider it another antibiotic.

Hope this has helped. [Smile]

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