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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Does the Ertheyma Migran rash itch?

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Author Topic: Does the Ertheyma Migran rash itch?
yankees237
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when i got bit, my bites itched which immediately caused some irration and made the surrounding area red. since the first day the rashes have dissapeared (it was like 4 days ago)

do the rashes itch? do they usually go away that quick?

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Pinelady
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Mine don't.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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GiGi
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Mine didn't itch at all. I didn't know it was there until it was about a 10 inch circle with a center mark.
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yankees237
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"An allergic reaction to tick saliva often occurs at the site of a tick bite and may be confused with the ``bull's-eye'' rash of Lyme disease. Allergic reactions to tick saliva usually appear within hours to a few days after the tick bite, usually do not expand, and disappear within a few days."


-from multiple websites

this sounds more like my situation. im still on doxy x3 weeks just in case

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Haley
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Mine didn't itch. Itching often indicates allergy to something.
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NancyJ2
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Mine did not itch either.
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Tracy9
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MINE ITCHED LIKE HELL!!!!!!!!!!! FOR TWO WEEKS!

When I called my PCP's office the nurse said, "if it itches it isn't Lyme Disease." She was dead wrong, and it delayed me getting treatment.

Descriptions of the rash say it can be raised, red, hot, and itchy...mine was all of those. It itched so badly I could not think of anything else. It tormented me day and night. I carried Benadryl gel with me EVERYWHERE. It was awful.

I honestly thought it was a mosquito bite at first but it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and eventually started to clear in the center.

YES, it can be itchy!!!!

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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hshbmom
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I've had two EMs over the past few years. Both were itchy. Both cases were diagnosed by physicians as Lyme disease.
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randibear
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i'm with tracy. mine itched so bad i thought i would go crazy.

it looked exactly like a bull's eye, it DID NOT expand, and it had a greasy, oiley looking appearance. it was about the size of a half dollar.

all my doctors said it was a spider bite.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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yankees237
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is it normal for the rash to show up immediately after the bite and then go away within 2 days?
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Keebler
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-
Mine itched terribly. It was a very deep burning nerve pain with twinges that raised the barre in the itching department.

Yes, a rash can show up immediately - even within 20 minutes. It can last for days or weeks but how long it lasts has little relevance. Infection is infection. What matters is how soon treatment started.

Treatment will also make rashes fade usually, but sometimes, treatment can also cause satellite rashes to pop up.

If you have questions, your LLMD should be able to guide you.

I would get about a dozen satellite rashes every time I started doxy. The itch was so bad that I could not continue the Rx.

Fading would start at 2 days and it'd be a week before they were mostly faded. But some grey scarring is still there in some places. Years later, I still have some scars.
-

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Keebler
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-
I saw pictures of 2 of your rashes. At least one was a very distinctive bulls eye, the other was likely one, too, just with a bit difference. Three weeks of doxy is likely not enough. I hope you can find a LLMD soon for an expert evaluation. I forget if you have an appointment lined up or not.
-

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yankees237
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thank you keebler i have called and left a nearby LLMD a message ...

im just trying to still put the pieces together

ive heard the rash usually doesnt show up right away - mine did

ive heard the rash usually lasts at least a couple weeks - mine went away as soon as i stopped itching it which was about 3 days.

i have not experienced any flu like symtoms since the bite - 1 week

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Keebler
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-
A rash can show up within minutes. Forget the myths. Those rashes speak loudly for themselves.

But you said in the post below " . . . caught it no later then 30 hours of being on me . . ." -- so it could have been that long before you noticed it. Plenty of time. You pulled the tick out yourself so you saw at least one of them (with 3 bites, there could have been 3 ticks).

I once spoke with a LLMD who said he saw a EM rash appear 20 minutes after a bite.

I went back to look at your photos, clearly for the sake of your future you need to see a LLMD as soon as you can. That doxy prescription is about to run out so call back to the LLMD and be sure to get in. Often, though there is a wait of up to a couple months.

As you also said in previous post that you " just recovered from mono" - be sure to tell the LLMD that, too, as it may affect treatment protocol. The EBV can become active again from lyme. So be very careful with your self-care.

Good luck. For others who may be interested and offer their thoughts I'll post the link to your photos here:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/94179#000000
-

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Keebler
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-
Are you trying to talk yourself out of this? If so, that is completely understandable. I've been trying to talk myself out of this since I got the dx in '97 (after many years of being very ill). I'm still very ill, mostly because of lack of access to good medical care.

I live my life with my computer in my closet so as to be able to focus at all from light and visual distractions of a full room. Oh, I'm not a vampire and the door is off the closet, it's got a lamp, plants, garden posters, etc. But the point is if you don't get to a specialist soon you could wind up like me.

I've not been able to go out in public for 18 months - and then that was a disaster. Obviously, I lost my car a long time ago.

I'm not complaining and doing the best I can with what I have and, yes, things could be worse. I am better than years past when I had to pee in bed sometimes because I could not walk to the bathroom. Now, though, I still have nothing close to a life - usually go two full weeks without even seeing another human being. You don't want to get to that place.

Please get an appointment as soon as you can with a true lyme expert. Your life depends on it. At least see what a LLMD had to say. If we sound like alarmists, it's because we know the devastation of (untreated) tick-borne infection. We know how hard it is to find a true LLMD.

So, yes, I would do anything to help prevent the horror in another person - even in another animal.

So, yes, you will be hounded until you see a LLMD. Because we know how important that it as this stage. You have a chance. Please pay attention to the signs your body so graciously provided for you.

And, it's not just a few posters here . . . please read the articles from the links provided in previous threads. So much is explained there - and that is just the beginning. The truth about lyme has been frequently documented. You just won't find it at your local doctor. You won't find it in the IDSA.

Be sure to start with ILADS. www.ilads.org

Monday morning at 9:00 a.m. sharp, please call that LLMD again. Keep calling until you connect. Sometimes, messages can get lost by the phone systems. You can't take that chance.
-

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yankees237
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Keeblar, i feel deeply sorry for you and for everyone on this board. from everything i have read this is a horrible disease.

maybe i am trying to talk myself out of it but i think it's more like everything i read from web sites, "experts", studies is conflicted with what i hear from actual sufferers. even some of what Dr. B (who all of you seem to have great respect for) says in his guideline's about the EM rash doesn't agree with what people say here.

but on another note

question: in dr b's guideline's he states

"EARLY LOCALIZED - Single erythema migrans with no constitutional symptoms:
1) Adults: oral therapy- must continue until symptom and sign free for at least one month,
with a 6 week minimum."

so basically if i remain constituional symptom free (which im guessing is the flu like symptoms)? then one month of oral antiobotic's should be all the treatment i need?

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Keebler
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-
It's not just about you. Your wife is also at risk. Even if you want to walk away from getting an expert's advice, it's the humane thing to let your wife know that she may have been exposed between time of your bites and your treatment -- and that the current dose you are on may not actually be strong enough and that a single abx is not enough to treat lyme in all its forms --- and that there are other tick-borne infections to consider.

Her future is also at stake here.

So, if you decide to take your chances, please share with her the links so that she can also consult a LLMD for advice (or go with you).

Prevention is key. You might be one of the lucky ones (and if you decline care, truly, I do hope you've got some luck on your side) but luck is rare regarding tick-borne infections. And you may be fine - but your wife could have a very different outcome.

I think it would more horrible to watch this in someone you love than to even experience it yourself. But, often, both spouses are ill at the same time. That certainly goes far beyond devastating.

==================

* This explains WHY you need an ILADS LLMD:

www.clinicaladvisor.com/Controversy-continues-to-fuel-the-Lyme-War/article/117160/

CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" - 2007

" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."


". . . If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided. . . ."

- Full article at link above. Much more there.
-

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yankees237
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Tracy and others who had an itchy rash...

was is the actual rash that was itchy? or the bite itself?

for me the bites were itchy, the rash didnt show up until after scratched the bites

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Keebler
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-
The double bulls eye was not a result of scratching. Both rash photos show a double bulls eye, with the smaller one close in to the bite.

If the rash were just skin irritation from scratching, that bulls eye pattern would not have been the pattern left.

We all get that you don't want to have this. What we are saying is that, if you see a LLMD now, this need not ruin your life. It may barely impact you. But this is a very narrow window of time - an extremely influential window of time regarding how decisions you make today and tomorrow can affect the quality of your life forever.

You could come out of this very well if you get expert advice now.

While you may get some very good suggestions here, a LLMD who has seen hundreds (or thousands) of TBD (tick-borne disease) patients has much more experience.

I'll leave you alone now, promise. Good luck to both you and to your wife.
-

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yankees237
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lol keebler you dont have to leave me alone, i

appreciate all of your responses. let me ask you

this...

if i was to not exhibit any consitutional symptoms

for the next month or so, would that mean anything?

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Keebler
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-
You are playing Russian Roulette. Big time. But, hey, the empty chamber is not really empty at all. It's just time-delayed.

And, it's not just about lyme. There are many other tick-borne infections that you need to be assessed for - or take some preventative routes.

By the time any "constitutional symptoms" show up, borrelia can be deeply burrowed into one's brain. This window of opportunity will not come again. Proper treatment now could save so much destruction - oh, there is no guarantee, but this is indeed a time to make critical decisions. You need a expert, in person.

Now, I get that money may be an issue (and that is why I never got past a few LLMD consults). And, we all don't have credit cards or a savings account.

So, if you are inclined to be as sincerely proactive as you can be. And if you are inclined to share with your wife the serious nature of this as she is also involved - and the money is just not there -- then there are some books and articles that detail complementary approaches.

But it's still serious work and not at all a substitute for consulting a LLMD with years of experience only in TBD. From there, there can be different options. If there is anyway possible, see a LLMD now.

If you wait for symptoms it could be too late. Once lyme gets to the nervous system, there is no going back.

You got 3 blooming bulls eye rashes, for crying out loud. That's a pretty clear message.

Sorry. Really. This -----. But "PROACTIVE" is the word of the day. Many have suffered due to late diagnosis, late care or no available treatment. Learn from us.

Now, you may also be in a state of shock and DENIAL is huge. Please recognize that this may be coloring your ability to act. But you have to act anyway as if the building were on fire and you had to make a decision. The bulls eyes were the embers.

Like a tree root that can burn for days, weeks, or longer - and start a fire far from the site of ignition, spirochetes can do that, too.

Take a few minutes. Take a walk. Get quiet. Ask yourself why you are so inclined to walk away from this?

If it's fear. Recognize but don't allow it to kidnap you, your wife and the future.

If it's denial, be assured that the bulls eye rashes are "proof" -

But, if it's denial about whether you need to act now or not, well, that's a personal matter and I'm about blue in the face and I will let it go now.

If you are frightened, hey, we all understand. Act, anyway. Don't become a victim. Don't let your wife become a victim.

Be sure to take very good care of yourself. If you just fought mono, I'm sure you've got self-care on track. But, also because you just dealt with mono, you may be at greater risk because your immune system has just been through a lot already.

Are you still taking some anti-virals? On some good liver support? All that detailed in links at previous threads.
-

[ 05-09-2010, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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randibear
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well my doc said bull's eye rash -- lyme. period, no doubt about it.

i'd go with the docs.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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jenn
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itchy, hot with multiple bite marks inside of circle bulls eye. Dr didn't treat because didn't see rash but had all classic symptoms weeks after bite....9 month's into treatment w/ llmd after being delayed for 3 months by GP. don't wait this out....you'll be sorry!
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Tracy9
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quote:
Originally posted by yankees237:
Tracy and others who had an itchy rash...

was is the actual rash that was itchy? or the bite itself?

for me the bites were itchy, the rash didnt show up until after scratched the bites

The rash was itchy. When I first noticed it, it looked like a large mosquito bite, already much larger and more swollen than a tick bite. It was already a rash.

It expanded to the size of maybe a half dollar or more. It never became a classic bullseye. It did sort of sink a little in the center. It had almost pustule type tiny bumps on it.

It itched, the whole rash, round, circular thing. It burned too. It was hot to the touch. It drove me crazy. I actually thought I had herpes or something though I had no idea where I would get that.

My husband kept telling me I had Lyme Disease (he'd had it years earlier, little did we know then he had Chronic Lyme) and I kept, well guess what, DENYING IT.

We happened to be on vacation at the time, and the rash was ruining my whole vacation because I couldnt' stop the pain and the itch. I remember we were walking down the street in Portsmouth, New Hampshire and I had to ask Blake to walk on the other side of me because I had a kink in my neck and couldn't turn my head to the right.

He said, "I'm really worried you have Lyme Disease."

I said, "We are staying in a hotel, it's just the hotel bed."

A couple days later I woke up feeling like I'd pulled a muscle straight down the right side of my back. I had not lifted anything heavy, there was no reason for it. But both pains were FAMILIAR, not unlike pains I'd had before, so therefore I attributed them to sleeping funny or something.

Blake said, "I think you have Lyme Disease!"

I said, "I must have twisted my back in my sleep."

A few days later, I brought my son to the dentist, about a 45 minute drive. I was fine. We got out of the dentist. I sat in the car and suddenly realized I felt SO sick I didn't know how I was going to drive home. It was getting like getting hit by the proverbial Mack Truck.

I had an excruciating headache, 101 fever, my whole body ached, and I was severely fatigued. This came on in a matter of one hour.

I called Blake and said, "I have Lyme Disease."

I drove home and went right to the ER where they looked at my rash and said I didn't even need a blood test, and gave me Doxycycline.

That was the start of my Lyme Nightmare, six years ago this August. Now I am fully disabled, with full time Personal Care Attendants, bedridden, and pretty much completely unable to function at all.

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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Pinelady
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It took me 2 1/2 years to get down for a count.

For some -I believe the body can fight it better

and may even encapsulate it with cysts that do not

disintegrate until later years when it becomes

active again and then they call it Alzheimers.

None of us have the same immune systems, but in

many I do think this is possible. I would take no

less than 3 months with a bulls eye rash or

symptoms after what I have been through.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Robin123
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Yankee, just so you understand - I believe the treatment recommendation is a minimum 6 weeks, and then see if you're symptom free for a month after that.

Personally, I don't trust this infection, since it's a relapsing one - I think I'd make the choice to treat for a while.

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greengirl
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I'm not yet down, but the last 15 years of my life have been of declining health without explanation. Not just "constitutional symptoms," but fatigue, anxiety, night terrors, etc etc. At the time when I believe I was infected, I was doing field work and was bitten dozens of times, but didn't think too much of it b/c I never got a "bulls eye." I once had "poison ivy" though. At the time I thought that was odd b/c I'd never before (or since) reacted to poison ivy. After looking at slides of lyme rashes I now believe that rash was from a tick bite. I'm now in treatment and can only wish I put this all together years ago. I'm barely able to keep it all together, now, but my husband and I have spent so much to help with child care and are always preparing ourselves for the day I may need to go on disability.
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