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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Ulnar Nerve pain/numbness..both hands at night. Anyone else?

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Author Topic: Ulnar Nerve pain/numbness..both hands at night. Anyone else?
IckyTicky
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This is just killing me lately! If it's not one thing is some other durn thing!
I've been waking up at night with my pinky and ring fingers and sides of hand numb and tingling and painful sometimes.

Sometimes it's only one hand, some times it's both at the same time! How can this be?
Ulnar nerve entrapment in BOTH arms? How likely is that?

Now my right arm is burning on the inside between the shoulder and elbow. I've been having some nerve issues in my arms/hands for awhile now but this is the worst it's been.

I don't have to be sleeping on my arm or anything, last night i was sleeping on my back when I woke up to both pinky and ring fingers in numbing pain.
Any ideas on what I need to do? Do I have to have surgery? I leave in 6 days to go have surgery on my parathyroid tumor (yesterday though my pcp felt that my thyroid is enlarged too... dunno whats up)

I'm tired of all this crap! Anyone else have this ulnar nerve pain? What made it better?

--------------------
IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND
IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+
Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF.
Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme.

Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wealdsteve
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i suffer from numb hands or fingers some mornings, doesnt matter which position i am lying either
Posts: 65 | From Sussex UK | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
f13girl
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Icky- sorry you are experiencing something new prior to surgery. Life is not fair! Both my hands and arms continue to be numb the past couple of months--

You don't deserve this sweet girl! I will pray it goes away and is only temporary! At least if it is not lasting that is a good thing!

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sk8ter
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Ok...this has been my life for the past 1,5 years. Although Lyme can cause this by getting into the nerves and inflaming them, there are conditions that I think are caused by Lyme.

First, You should have an MRI because you could have cervical issues with your neck. Finger numbness is classic for nerve compression as well as cord compression in the neck.

Second, go to ATOSA.org which is the national site for Thoracic Outlet syndrome. This condition starts from a fall/car accident or nothing, where the brachial plexus nerve and vessels triangle is compressed. I have been dxed with both and I feel Lyme destabilizes the skeleton into these conditions. But the first thing is get your neck checked out as that is usually the culprit. God bless

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massman
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Good advice sk8ter.

Problems are often NOT where the symptoms are.
Scalenes and the pectoralis minor muscle are often involved that cause problems in the wrists + hands.

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anthropisces
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Be careful with cord compression diagnoses. I think Lyme aggravates areas which may be less than optimal, but not necessarily problematic. I've got cervical issues but I think Lyme aggravates it. It can be easy for the wrong ortho or neuro doctor to diagnose cord compression and then start advocating surgery when in fact you are just sensitized due to the Lyme. That's my two cents.
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richedie
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quote:
Originally posted by anthropisces:
Be careful with cord compression diagnoses. I think Lyme aggravates areas which may be less than optimal, but not necessarily problematic. I've got cervical issues but I think Lyme aggravates it. It can be easy for the wrong ortho or neuro doctor to diagnose cord compression and then start advocating surgery when in fact you are just sensitized due to the Lyme. That's my two cents.

Exactly! They told me I had ulnar entrapment so they performed surgery...found lots of inflammation in the elbow! Repositioned the nerve and yes the tingling in the ring and pinky subsided but the pain in the elbow, wrist and hand continued to get worse. I think the swelling int he elbow actually caused the ulnar entrapment symptoms.

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sk8ter
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Many times the ulnar entrapment is caused by Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Again though, Lyme can infect these nerve routes. There is the best nerve doc in the country and his website is Dellon Institute near John Hopkins. On his sight he does a special surgery with the nerves that only 5 drs in the country do that he has taught to get relief. His website has all the info on all the different conditions like yours as well as Thoracic issues and Carpel Tunnel.
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richedie
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quote:
Originally posted by sk8ter:
Many times the ulnar entrapment is caused by Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Again though, Lyme can infect these nerve routes. There is the best nerve doc in the country and his website is Dellon Institute near John Hopkins. On his sight he does a special surgery with the nerves that only 5 drs in the country do that he has taught to get relief. His website has all the info on all the different conditions like yours as well as Thoracic issues and Carpel Tunnel.

How can he help if it is an underlying infection and an immune response causing it???

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
richedie
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bump

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Cold Feet
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Rich, good point!

I had all these issues and more with the onset of bacterial infection in 2005 and 2006. After being on the Marshall Protocol for a few years, ALL the symptoms disappeared.

I really spent tons of time examining TOS, the anatomy of the brachial plexus, and other possible causes. More than a dozen doctors could not figure it out -- not even a well-known physiatrist.

I insisted to get tested for mycoplasmas at Lahey clinic, an institution well-known for having terrible diagnostic capabilities for bacterial infections. Well, I sort of "lucked out" in that my blood tests showed a very high titre for mycoplasma pneumonia. By now, many hundreds of patients (thousands?) have been mistreated or undiagnosed by this racquet!

Any way, after that, it got worse. Here's an excerpt from the dialog with my doc after I got the test results:

Me: Great, doc. We identified the problem. Let's treat it with the right antibiotics.

Fired doctor: Well, we don't treat those kinds of issues here.

Me: Why not? The right antibiotics, long term, should be the right protocol...

Fired doctor: This sort of thing is not in the medical treatment guidelines....


You know these rest of that idiotic story!

[bonk]

--------------------
My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com
2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia
2006 Positive after 2 years of hell
2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species
2009 - Beating candida, doing better
Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet!

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richedie
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Marshall Protocol? Did you have a doctor put you on that? I should ask my LLMD.

Also, my doctor said based on symptoms does not think I have mycoplasma issues. How to know???

My doctor has been trying to get my Vitamin D levels up because they have been low every time we test. She said she rarely gets people well without getting D levels fairly high.
Interesting because the Marshall protocol seems contrary to what many LLMDs fine, low levels of D in people with chronic infection.

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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Pinelady
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Mine is resolving with treatment and hot Epsom soaks.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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db
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I understand the pain/numbness you are experiencing. I opted to have the surgery done on my left side ulnar nerve. I support having an MRI done for sure. Important. Even after surgery though the pain/numbness continued and it took several months to heal. It actually was worse before it got better. But I learned some simple non surgical things to help:

Really respect the elbow. Learned to not lean on the elbow when sitting at the table or when I was reading emails on the computer. I really had to baby my arm after the surgery. Even had to wrap it for several months. So gentleness was a must.

Wishing you wellness.

db

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IckyTicky
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I did test positive for Mycoplasma 2.5 years ago. AND Lyme, RMSF and West Nile Virus. LLMD also suspects Bart.
So you think this could be caused by Mycoplasma?

If some of you had surgery and it fixed it, then was it not caused by inflammation or bacteria?

Ack..I'm confused!

--------------------
IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND
IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+
Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF.
Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme.

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richedie
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I had the suregery too but my LLMD said it was most likely wasted time as it was mostly the infections, not a truw ULnar entrapment!

Anyway, 1.5 years after the surgery and the pain continues to increase! I wish they would just cut off my arm.

Yep....inflamation in the elbow can cause the symptoms and just relocating the nerve is enough...but will not get rid of pain.

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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db
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I don't know what to say Icky. I was very upset after my surgery because it was worse for at least a good year. Yeah, a long time. I know but I can honestly say it is gone now, too. Just my experience.
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txgirl09
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I know, I've had this issue too. Its confusing. The nerve pain in my arm gets better and then worse with no rhyme or reason.
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NO SURGERY! [tsk] Anyone new to the Lymie world (like me) may need to look at the LL research literature and see that LLMDs try to broadcast warnings to STOP orthopaedists from operating on anyone even suspected of having LD & co's. Heck, we're not supposed to get ICE, only heat, but physical therapists will ice you all over, with limited relief... I learned this too late, but save yourselves & your loved ones!

Just noticed this thread now. My R pinkie has been acting up again = NUMB! My R elbow has been VERY painful for yrs. I've had all kinds of dx from orthopaedic surgeons. So much pain I actually allowed cortisone shots, too. [bonk]

I had CTS release surgery on R hand Mar '09, then basal thumb joint replacement surgery on L hand Nov '09. I'm NOT significantly improved. Both of my hands, arms, shoulders are very painful.

Excellent points made by sk8ter, anthro, Cold Feet and db. Thank you for bringing up Mycoplasma! [bow] I will research that now. [dizzy]

Cheap pain relief tips from occupational therapists that help me:
-- No motion (typing, sitting reading, driving, gardening, washing dishes) for more than 20 min without stretch break. Get up, move around, come back (or lie down [sleepy] ).
-- Get a "heel-bow" and wear it almost constantly. (It's sock-like thing, like volleyball knee pad.) I'm a slim woman, wearing size M Posey brand. Sold in pairs. Fit either arm.
-- Handeze Therapeutic Support Glove by DOME of Warwick, RI. Fights hand pain. Under $8 each. Lasts more than a yr. Amazingly helpful; naturally creates compression & warmth. Size based on width across knuckles. My hands are broad for female; I wear Medium Handeze Glove. Fits either hand.
-- Tee Pee Thumb Protector by Medical Specialties of NC. GREAT for those with thumb problem from too much weeding, knitting, counting money, etc. Better than the custom splint made for me by an occupational therapist. I have very long fingers, but I wear X-Small Tee Pee Thumb Support 223081. *Pay attention to measuring directions on their website!* Fits either hand.
-- Do NOT use any pen or pencil that is regular/thin (like an old BiC). It's TOO detrimental to hold such a small, smooth, narrow object with the force & concentration used to write. (That's actually true for most humans more than ~25 yo!)
-- Instead, buy grippers to slide onto your pens & pencils (best selections in teachers' school supply stores). And/or buy new, thick pens for yourself. My personal favs, all available at Staples: 1st Zebra Spiral, 2nd Pilot Dr Grip, 3rd Staples own triangular shape with narrow grooves on black rubber grip. Sold in 2-pk. ymmv.
-- Ask your healthcare provider about taking additional supplemental Vit B6.

IckyTicky & WealdSteve - wear the Poseys and the Handeze gloves to bed. You may find the Posey annoying at first due to bulk. You may fall in luv with your Handeze and/or Tee Pee and long for it when you've left it on the counter in another room... [kiss] You've been warned.

NO, I do not sell any of these products. Just don't want others to go thru my pain!
Best wishes,
Smile

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richedie
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WHY no surgery for those with Lyme? I had no idea at the time! All doctors told me my nerve issues and tingling were just pinched nerves....so I had surgery.

What do you mean, "no motion"?

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689

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bump

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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Hi, Richedie.
I meant no repetitive motions for more than 20 minutes at a time without a stretch break of at least 5 to 10 min.

As for "No surgery," I don't know if I bookmarked all those sites or not. Cannot look right now due to my own BLO health issues this a.m., but I'll try to get back to you.
Smile

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OH! Besides ortho-specific issues (more on that another day), the LBb bacteria likes to live/collect in surgery scar tissue. Don't give them haven!

Interestingly enough, it's long been shown that endometriosis proliferates at old surgery scar sites, too. That's a disease said by many ducks to have "no known cause and no known cure." Hhmmm... [bonk]

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