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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Pain meds & Low Dose Naltrexone

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Author Topic: Pain meds & Low Dose Naltrexone
Rumigirl
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Has anyone who is on Low-Dose Naltrexone also done around the clock pain meds successfully? Or do you know how to juggle the two?

I know you are not supposed to do opiods while on LDN, as the LDN blocks the opiods. I have used opiods while on LDN by

using VERY lose doses of opiods (187.5 mg of Percocet [mistake--it's 1.875 mg] or Vicodin) only when absolutely necessary, and timing it so it's well away from my LDN dosage.

But I'm in ungodly amount of pain all the time, and am completely worn down by it. And I haven't been able to tolerate

Lyrica and Cymbalta (give me head-banging migraines). Ultram doesn't take the pain away, and also gives me migraines.

Neurontin & Topomax, etc. don't take the pain away either, and they make me out of it. I've tried antidepressants, which don't help with the pain.

The only thing that helps is opiods and anti-inflammatories. And I can't take anti-inflammatories, due to ototoxicity causing tinnitus and hearing loss, which I already have badly.

And I already do magnesium, fish oil, have done lots of tumeric, detox, glutathione, herbs, and all the rest of the natural stuff. This pain is industrial grade, and deep in the center of my spine and head.

Also, I have frequent, severe migraines. I do MANY things to prevent them, but can't get rid of them. I'm a practitioner myself, so, believe me when I say I've tried everything.

Any suggestions?? I hate to go off the LDN, as it helps, but I'm at the end of my rope with the pain.

I keep thinking that if I get some pain relief, then I can do more exercise, etc. to help long term. I hope that's the case. Also, I

have been off tx for too long (not intentionally), and the pain is worse due to that. That's about to change soon.

[ 05-17-2010, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Rumigirl ]

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sammy
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Good question Rumigirl. I hope that some others will be able to share their experiences with us.

My mom has MS along with a several other spine and nerve problems that cause great pain. I want her to try LDN but she cannot do that until she has a good alternative for her current medication.

She has an appt with a pain doctor but it isn't until August. That's a long time to wait when you are in pain.

Rumigirl, have you chosen a new LLMD yet? I hope that you will be able to start treatment soon so that you can begin to feel better.

Hugs [Smile]

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djf2005
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Yes, I have.

I am now off of narcotic medications, but was once taking 50-100 mg a day of oxycodone due to extreme pain while supplementing w/ LDN 2-3 mg @ night/bedtime.

What my LLMD told me was this:

Do not take pain meds that are long acting, such as MS contin or Oxycontin, and be sure to take your last dose of SHORT acting pain med/s before 6 pm to allow most of it to clear the body before dosing w/ LDN.

LDN will not push your body into withdraw severely at a low dose; still, follow the two steps above and you should make out alright.
(Yes, there are exceptions to every rule)

It is best, and surely more wise, to do one's bext to take LDN w/o the use of narcotics. But in my experience, as I am sure of that of others, one's suffering can become intolerable.

It can and will get better guys, hang in there.

I have been in so much pain in the past I wanted to die, and this was consecutively day in/out for years on end. W/ excellent detox measures and much trial and error I am now in a much better place. Pain free? No. But no longer need the pain meds, nor do I miss them. They increase cytokine production, and actually will make long-term pain worse w/ time.

PS- Rumigirl, you stated your "low" dose of percoset is 187.5 mg? Is that a typo? Or did you mean .50 mg as in 1/2 of 1 mg?

187mg is a TON of opiets...lol

Good luck.

Best

Derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

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Carol in PA
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Have you considered trying systemic enzyme therapy?

Low dose Naltrexone reduces inflammation.
Systemic enzymes reduce inflammation.

When I took Wobenzym N, within two weeks my constant severe headache was reduced.
I no longer woke every day with a splitting headache.

Carol

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Rumigirl
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sammy, I'll PM you. Yes, I'm seeing a new LLMD this Wed. FINALLY!

Derek, Thank you! That's more or less what I"ve been doing---spacing out the Percocet from the LDN, when I do need the Percocet.

But sometimes I take my LDN, and then a migraine whomps up, and I have to wait to take the Percocet. And waiting to take pain meds with a migraine means it gets completely out of hand and horrific.

Oh, and the dosage, I had my decimal in the wrong place! It's 1.875 mg (1/4 of a 7.5 mg tablet).

Carol, I've tried systemic enzymes, but they make me too alkaline, and therefore allergic and gassy. Every time I try them.

I tend to be too alkaline to begin with. Although I tolerate bromolain better. I could try that again, but it never helped my headaches/migraines.

Any more suggestions? Actually, I'm thinking that, because I'm so darned sensitive to meds, I probably need tiny doses of a few

meds in different categories as on-going preventative meds---and avoiding opiates, except for break-through really bad pain.

I would give anything not to need any of it! I saw "The Green Mile" on tv last night. A healer like that would be great!

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lr26
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I am on a low dose of prednesone. 5 mg Am and 5mg Pm. I also take a systemie enzymes, serracor NK. I have been on the LDN for 3 1/2 months. This week I have started weaning off the pred., I know how bad it is for me. But I also need some quality of life and nothing else helped. My inflamations is getting better since I got to the 4.5 mg of LDN.

lr26

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Rumigirl
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Up for more replies. I see a new LLMD on Wed. I'm trying to figure out what I could ask for that would work and that I could tolerate.
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djf2005
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You could consider Ultram or Tramadol. Both very low level opietes.

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

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Rumigirl
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I could try it again, but Ultram/Tramadol never helped me that much with pain. ANd at 100 mg, I get headaches or migraines from it, even the timed-release. : - ( Thanks for the suggestion, though.
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azdaisy
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Hey there Miss Rumi!!
Daisy here again, I didn't know you were already on LDN!...I take it twice a day and that helped a lot. Only speaking for myself, Lyrica was nearly the end of me..Gabapentin aka Neurontin has a world class law suit against it and repackaged itself as Lyrica...the disclaimer says it all, may make you severely suicidal...not a class 3 narcotic, just feels like one. A single dose cost me 9 weeks of my life!
The solution for me and my migraines and crazy pain:
Diet changes!! no flour, no sugar, like my life depends on it. I recently cheated for several days and I can't believe how much I hurt...
LDN twice a day, Deprenyl, lithium orotate,
Magnesium Glycinate- 400 mgs 3 times a day! I cannot walk without it! and talk about migraines!! read up on the role of mag and brain function..
Water water water water...get my hint..
move a muscle even if it takes an hour to stretch my legs. the best medicine takes 20 minutes a day to swallow..walk even in place if thats all I can do!
I'm very careful with opiates and choose not to use them on a daily basis. We don't suffer, but I believe that 99% of the time, there is another action I can take first...
Torf moor mud, Lymph drainage with my Lymphstar Pro, massage, and most most important of all, FOR ME...is to have a good cry. there is a Direct corrolation to my emotional pain and my physical pain and when Im current emotionally, I don't hurt quite as badly.
Trust me I hurt, I get it. There are days I can hardly walk, brush my hair or dress myself..but I refuse to live numb either.
the 5HTP and L-phenalaine was great for a long time too!
I do take NSAIDs that I do and muscle relaxers and Light Relief and far infrared heat pad.
Hope this helps!
Daisy

--------------------
AzDaisy
life requires action

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Rumigirl
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Wow, Daisy, thank you!! Some questions:

How much LDN do you take and at what times of day? (I'm taking 4.5 mg before bed).

So, do you use opiates when you have to, but separated from the LDN?

Torf moor mud?? Hmm, thats a new one.

Lymphstar Pro, will have to look it up. Is it expensive? Better than a rebounder/mini-trampoline?

Light Relief? Is it a laser?

Far Infared heat pad? Guess I'll look these things up. I'm up on lots of things, but not these.

I do do 5-HTP and magnesium, although with magnesium, I do it esp transdermally, as I don't tolerate it orally well (get gassy and allergic from being too alkaline).

And a good cry---yes, me, too! Very important! If I'm backed up, forget about it!

When a migraine comes on though, if I don't take meds, I get severely clobbered. I try to do without the meds, but it never works.

And the gabapentin/Lyrica info---whew! You couldn't make this stuff up! It's unbelievable! Same old, same old.

Thank you, thank you! There's lots here to look into to and try out.

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azdaisy
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Okay Miss Rumi let's see...
I take 4.5 am /pm
if I have too I rarely take demerol, when I feel like a screwdriver shoved in my jaw kind of staggering pain only. and several hours away from LDN works just fine for me.
Torf Moor mud is a detox tool...and my headaches are really related to my guts. ( which = lymph and food and dehydration issues,and magnesium too) its awesome! a tub as hot as you can take it for 20 minutes. Crawl out and wrap up in a sheet and lay on the floor and sweat city!!! then crawl to bed drink huge glass of lemon or apple vinegar water and sleep!
Lymphstar Pro is $$$ 2500-4K will last a lifetime. the owner is awesome. Lori and will sell you used units for a discount. people trade up..and we get the benefit. It uses xeon gas and pulsed frequencies to shake stagnant lymph loose. I can hear my lymph roll over in my belly! then I pee and pee and pee!! its great!! Saved me. I used to have this "bratwurst" in my neck and its very tame now. I am not well enough for a rebounder, get so dizzy for days. this machine you take to bed and tuck yourself in and it does the work until you can! I move it around my body different lymph stations. arm pits, groin, belly ect..
Light relief is LED light and far infrared pain relief!! the far infrared heat pad is the concept behind FIR sauna on a direct small scale delivering deep heat that unties the muscles
now, this is what I do for migraines..either Midrin or Fiorcet and if its gone too far I have an arrangment at the MD's office and a standing order at the ER for torodol. which is IM and is my miracle drug for that level.Non steroidal, non opiate magic bullet. I was just there last week with a drug interaction and a new personal pain level!... OH!! I also take Proprananol !!!which is a HBP med that is commonly used for anxiety to dial down my pain.
Its amazing what a good sob will do to dial down my pain.
not to add...but have you looked into mold?? adn being too alkaline...what are you doing about that?? really curious to know.

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AzDaisy
life requires action

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azdaisy
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oh, Rumigirl,
don't forget the L-phenalaine!! it works for PAIN!! hand in hand with the 5HTP...check it out!
Anytime I can be helpful!!! it helps me feel like all this is to help you and then its worth it!

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AzDaisy
life requires action

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Rumigirl
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Thank you, AzDaisy, that's awesome info!

I did use the L-phenylalanine for years for pain and depression, but it didn't help that much, esp for pain. Midrin/Fiorcet doesn't

work at all for me for migraines. But Maxalt MLT or Imitrex injections and percocet (tiny dose) and extra tylenol or NSAIDS does work.

I'll have to look into the other stuff you mentioned.

Being too alkaline? I know, most people think everyone should become more alkaline, which is REALLY wrong. You don't want

to be too much one way or the other. I take various supplements and foods to acidify my system, and know when it

is at it's worst. I've been a Natural Health Care practitioner for many decades, so I know what I'm doing. Thank you!

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Rumigirl
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azdaisy, one more question: I presume that you are seeing more improvement from taking LDN at 4.5 mg TWICE a day?? This is the first I"ve heard about taking it twice a day or at twice that dosage.

Can you say something about what results you've seen from taking it twice a day? Thank you again!

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