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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Mood disorder possibly brought on by LD

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Author Topic: Mood disorder possibly brought on by LD
sutherngrl
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At my last appt, my LLMD diagnosed me with a mood disorder. Its a milder form of bi-polar, called cyclothemia. (He has a PhD in brain chemistry).

Anyway, it seems that many of my lyme symptoms have improved with a few lingering symptoms and I am going to continue lyme treatment for at least the next 6 months.

However, he now thinks it is imperative that we treat the mood disorder. I have mixed feelings about it.

In one sense I want to feel better mentally. Also he said it becomes hard to determine what is lyme and what is mental, and that makes sense to me.

He also said by treating the mood disorder for maybe 9 months that sometimes it resets the brain; but if not treated it is possible for it to get worse.

Looking for opinions. Still trying to sort it all out in my mind.

He prescribed me a medication, lamictal, but me and hubby read the "black box warning" and it is just too scary of a medication for me to consider taking. Can't believe anyone is brave enough to chance the one severe side effect that it can cause.

I have another appt in 3 weeks and hopefully by then can sort through all this info and figure out what I want to do. I might be willing to try another mood stabilizer.

I know my LLMD is doing his best to try and help me. He has always said "he will never give up on me".

This is just a lot for me to take in. Its bad enough dealing with a bizarre illness like LD; now this; its almost more than I can process. There is that first reaction of denial and right now I am going back and forth on that, even though I can see the obvious mood swings. And the mental anquish from them is really getting hard to live with.

I know I will get an array of opinons. I can deal with that. I will in the end do what I feel is right for me, but would love to hear from others concerning this subject.

Thanks!
SG

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Keebler
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How long have you been treating lyme? It can take 2 - 3 years or more. I see you've been here for about two. Did you start treatment before coming here?

Of course, lyme affects the brain. But better to fully treat infection(s) and support the brain than blast it. If any one of these cornerstones is missing, things will be worse with mood:

* INFECTIONS full addressed

* LIVER SUPPORT

* ADRENAL SUPPORT

* NEURO SUPPORT

Been there. Done that with all the mood disorder dx. Some of the mood drugs nearly killed me. Some ruined my ears (effexor really ruined my ears and shot hyperacusis to the moon).

Toxins. Anyone with high toxins will have a change in brain chemistry. Treat the infection and the brain heals.

I would never take anything with a black box warning label. Ever.

There are so many better ways to work with this. I think you need a new LLMD who understanding that giving you toxic drugs is just going to add more liver stress.

GOTU KOLA, MAGNESIUM, FISH OIL & CURCUMIN are just a few places I'd start looking.

ADRENAL SUPPORT, too, makes all the difference with mood.

www.vrp.com - search for articles about supplement names or condition terms in their library. Pull down from products to articles in the search bar.

That's a start. Magnesium is one of the best mood stabilizers there is.

Also search at Google : "Alan Gaby"

=================

See the link for "Secondary Porphyria" and note the mood connections to toxicity:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/91842?

PORPHYRIA Thread

====================

http://www.prohealth.com/ME-CFS/library/showArticle.cfm?libid=14383&B1=EM031109C

http://tinyurl.com/detwtt

Underactive Adrenal Gland - Stresses and Problems with the Body's 'Gear Box' - by Dr. Sarah Myhill, MD

=======================

Many libraries carry this book and you can read 95 customer reviews here (average 4.5 star out of 5) AND see inside the book:

www.amazon.com/Adrenal-Fatigue-Century-Stress-Syndrome/dp/1890572152/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263516913&sr=8-1

Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome

~ James L. Wilson, ND, DC, PhD, Johnathan V. Wright, MD

About $10. And qualifies for free shipping with a total $25. Purchase at Amazon

================

www.thehumansideoflyme.net

The Human Side of Lyme - Re: Brain

Deliberations of a [LL] psychiatrist . . .

=====================

Not about lyme yet still very relevant:

THE BETTER BRAIN BOOK - By David Perlmutter, MD, FACN and Carol Colman

http://inutritionals.com/betterbrainbook.php

http://www.inutritionals.com/

http://inutritionals.com/brainsustain.php

at the bottom of this page, you can see a video of Dr. Perlmutter on an "Oprah" program. David Perlmutter, MD, FACN is a Board-Certified Neurologist and Fellow of the American College of Nutrition . . . Dr. Perlmutter was awarded the 2002 Linus Pauling Award for his pioneering work in innovative approaches to neurological disorders. . . .

This is not meant to endorse this particular product - and this list is not the absolute list, if there were to be one. (I can't tolerate Gingko but do very well with Gotu Kola instead.) I had been impressed with one of the author's books I got years ago and while searching for him found this. This is a nice outline of some of the nutrients for the nervous system. Much more info. in looking around his sites.


* Coenzyme Q-10 measurably increases the efficiency of cellular energy production, as demonstrated in studies performed at the Massachusetts General Hospital.1 In addition, it serves as a potent brain antioxidant. These effects explain why major institutions worldwide are vigorously evaluating coenzyme Q10 as a therapeutic aid in brain disorders.

* Alpha Lipoic Acid provides powerful antioxidant action and regenerates other important brain antioxidants including vitamins E, C, and glutathione. Unlike other antioxidants, alpha lipoic acid is both fat- and water-soluble, greatly enhancing its ability to be absorbed from the gut and penetrate into the brain.2

* N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine (NAC) dramatically increases the body's production of glutathione, one of the brain's most important antioxidants. NAC itself is a potent antioxidant shown to reduce formation of nitric oxide, a free radical implicated for a causative role in Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, and other neurodegenerative disorders.3

* Acetyl-L-Carnitine, like coenzyme Q-10, enhances neuronal energy production by transporting fuel sources into the mitochondria -- the energy producing machinery of the neuron. This particularly benefits damaged brain neurons, which are characterized by decreased energy production.

In addition, acetyl-L-carnitine acts as an effective antioxidant and been demonstrated to protect laboratory animals from developing parkinsonism when they are exposed to chemicals known to induce the condition.4

A report in a recent issue of Neurology found that acetyl-L-carnitine profoundly reduces the rate of progression of Alzheimer's disease in younger patients.5

* Vitamin E exhibits profound ability to limit free radical damage in the brain -- the likely explanation of why it outperformed a highly touted "Alzheimer's drug" in clinical trials reported in the New England Journal of Medicine.6

Diets rich in Vitamin E have been shown to reduce the risk of Parkinson's disease by an incredible 61%,7 and to dramatically slow disease progression in already-diagnosed patients when supplemented with vitamin C.8

* Gingko biloba, one of the most extensively studied nutritional supplements for neurodegenerative conditions, directly improves brain metabolism, increases brain blood flow, and provides antioxidant action.

In a placebo-controlled, double-blind randomized trial published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Gingko biloba not only stabilized Alzheimer's disease, but in addition, many subjects demonstrated an actual improvement noted in various standardized psychological tests.9

* Vitamin D may have even greater ability than vitamin E to quench brain free radicals, as described in several reports. Deficiencies of vitamin D have been found in cases of Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's Disease, and Multiple Sclerosis.10

* Vitamin B12 (Methylcobalamin) is critical for maintaining myelin, the protective coat surrounding each neuron. As with Vitamin D, Vitamin B12 deficiency is associated with neurodegenerative conditions.

* Phosphatidylserine produces marked memory and learning improvements in demented patients, according to research conducted at Stanford University.11

Like acetyl-L-carnitine and coenzyme Q-10, phosphatidylserine plays an important role in neuronal energy production and chemical communication.

=================

d-RIBOSE - is also very helpful.

-

[ 05-20-2010, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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-
Many drugs with a black box warning are also toxic to the ears. Lamictal is on at least one ototoxic list. You'll find many links from a cross-search at Google for: lamictal, ototoxic

--------------

http://www.hearinglosshelp.com/articles.htm#ototoxic_drugs

Drugs That Can Damage Your Ears (Ototoxic Drugs)

==========

http://www.hearinglosshelp.com/articles/ototoxicupheaval.htm

Ototoxicity--The Hidden Menace; Part I: Lives in Upheaval

November 2003 by Neil Bauman, Ph.D.

=============

http://tinyurl.com/yhdw78n (through Amazon)

You can look inside this book and read customer reviews here:

Ototoxic Drugs Exposed: Prescription Drugs and Other Chemicals That Can (and Do) Damage Our Ears

- by Neil G. Bauman
-

[ 05-20-2010, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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-
GOTU KOLA
--------------

Gotu Kola (not a cola) can calm the nervous system while also helping with alertness. It helps give a sense of well-being without feeling ``wired'' or ``hungover''.


Of everything I've used over the years, I cannot say enough good about the wonderful effects I've seen - in many ways - from Gotu Kola.

========

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Gotu Kola - 257 abstracts

Centella asiatica - 245 abstracts

Gotu Kola, seizures - 3 abstracts

Gotu Kola, brain - 29 abstracts

Gotu Kola, cognitive - 8 abstracts

Gotu Kola, depression - 8 abstracts

Gotu Kola, anxiety - 6 abstracts

Gotu Kola, startle - one abstract

(#1: Protective antioxidant effect of Centella asiatica bioflavonoids on lead acetate induced neurotoxicity.)

====================

http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?page=LIST&ProdID=art799&search_in=articles

GOTU KOLA -- An Under-Appreciated Herb: Multifaceted Benefits on Microcirculation for Cardiovascular and Cognitive Health -- By Linda Fugate, PhD

The best nutrition in the world will not do anyone any good if it doesn't reach our tissues. The gatekeeper to tissues is the microcirculatory system, which includes blood vessels smaller than 0.1 mm in diameter. The health of the microcirculatory system is now recognized as critical to the total health of the individual. (1)

Gotu Kola's Effect on the Circulatory System . . . .

From Wound Healing to Brain Health . . . .


. . . Gotu Kola's primary action is enhancement of the health of the circulatory system. Because circulation is critical to the health of the entire body, Gotu Kola offers benefits in a variety of conditions.

The antioxidant and collagen supportive functions of Gotu Kola are particularly important in enhancing healing of damaged tissues. . . .

- Full article - and citations - at link above.

=========================

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/gotu-kola-leaf-centella-asiatica.html

GOTU KOLA LEAF (Centella asiatica,)

WHAT IT DOES:

Gotu Kola is bitter and astringent in taste and cooling in action. It is a brain and memory tonic, and an anti-poison, and very useful for wound and skin healing.

. . .

TAM doctors use it as a brain and memory tonic, and have found it especially useful in children.

In Nepal, during the ceremony for the first day of spring, gotu kola leaf is given to schoolchildren to help them in their studies by improving memory and concentration.

It is very safe and extremely effective. TAM doctors also use it to cleanse the system of toxins and reduce inflammation. TCM doctors use gotu kola to clear up boils and toxic fevers. . .

The primary effects of gotu kola include both wound healing and improvement of mental clarity and emotional balance. . . .

. . .

* The Indian Central Council for Research on Ayurveda and Siddha, citing more than ten pharmacological and animal studies of gotu kola, also found evidence of the following characteristics:

CNS depressant [calming without causing drowiness], memory enhancer, ** anti-convulsant, ** antispasmodic, behavior and intelligence enhancer, and blood sugar regulator (Pandley et al., eds, 1996).

- Full chapter at link above.

===========================

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_1_12/ai_n27234590?tag=content;col1

Centella asiatica

Alternative Medicine Review, March, 2007

-============================

One of the solutions mentioned (by Tillotson) for calming is Seven Forests Acorus Tablets. A search will bring up sources and the ITM link in the article takes you right to a research article about that.

I have taken many of the things suggested and, while no longer a child and not (exactly) ADD, I have a very sensitive system and would be glad to share my experiences with certain things if that helps.

===========================

From: The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tillotson, et.al.)

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/diseases/attention-deficit-disorder.html

Attention Deficit Disorder

================

www.itmonline.org/arts/add.htm

Chinese Herbal Treatment for Attention Deficit Disorder

Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) is a broad syndrome that may include hyperkinetic syndrome, hyperactivity, and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).

=====================

Acorus was mentioned in an link above as being calming. Here is more on that:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Acorus - 153 abstracts

Neuroprotective herbs - 35 abstracts

==================

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/neuro.htm

Neuroprotective Herbs and Active Constituents Approaches to Preventing Degenerative Diseases

by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.
-

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seekhelp
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Take this for what it's worth, but I'd consider seeing a new LLMD for a second opinion. I followed your story since the beginning. I think you deserve it. I'm not sure I buy into your LLMD's Tx philosophies, but who am I?

I'm starting to believe these infections are tougher than I realized as my WA-1 titer keeps escalating. I think it takes the kitchen sink to have a chance. [Frown]

Think long and hard about TF's posts about how her Lyme always got better but never went away until she got Dr. B treatment. I think it's so true. It's ALWAYS in your body waiting to attack.

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Keebler
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-
Also needed for mood balance: protein with every meal.

http://icmr.nic.in/ijmr/2006/august/0804.pdf

THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTION . . . - 20 pages

Anura V. Kurpad - Institute of Population Health & Clinical Research, Bangalore, India 129. Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148.

Excerpt:

" . . . In general, the amount of EXTRA protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . ."

- Full article at link (or google the title if it does not go through).

=================

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP - Links to articles & supplements

==================

Also consider:

Green & Blacks Organic 85% Dark Chocolate
-

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Keebler
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Sorry for so many posts. I'm actually trying to stay off computer but when I see something like this it really gets me angry. I suffered so much torture by doctors who had no clue and put me on one psych pill after another. That was before I knew I had several tick-borne infections - and even other stealth infections.

Just because a doctor has a Ph.D. in brain chemistry does not mean he knows what he needs to know to treat YOU. You may do better with a LL ND (naturopathic doctor) who understands the liver.

Be sure your doctor has adequately assessed you for the full range of stealth infections. Toxicity is the number one cause of mood trouble.

[But, oh, if you are taking Cytomel (T3) that can also cause sharp and sudden mood drops. It nearly killed me from that afternoon drop.]

In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=069911#000000

TIMACA #6911 posted 03 August, 2008

I would encourage EVERY person who has received a lyme diagnosis to get the following tests.

- at link.

=================

Backing up, all about lyme toxins and some suggestions:

www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm

BIOCHEMISTRY OF LYME DISEASE: BORRELIA BURGDORFERI SPIROCHETE / CYST

==================

http://www.dancingviolets.com/media/pdf/LymeDisease.pdf

Chronic Lyme Disease and Co-infections: Clinical Overview (R. Snow)

-

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trigal2
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I agree with Keebler.

Does your LLMD have a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology as well?

SO many doctors (non-Psychiatrist MD's) are too quick to throw a mental health diagnosis on people.

What baffles me even more is how a doctor with little if any training in Mental Health Disorders can do a quick 2 mintue assessement/diagnosis when it takes trained Psychiatrists and Psychologists upward to 2 hours to properly assess and diagnose.

Did he or she do a full Psychiatric Evaluation to determine that you meet the diagnostic criteria for Cyclothymic D/O?

This disorder should not be diagnosed if symptoms are due to a medical condition. That comes straight from the DSM-IV-TR, pg. 400.

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Keebler
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-
A gluten-free diet has helped my mood a great deal. Wonder if the Ph.D. in brain chemistry mentioned that? Hope so. There is a great deal of research on gluten's neurological impact. Usually, that regards patients with celiac but many lyme patients do much better being gluten-free.

There are other foods, too, that can cause mood problems. You might check out the Allergie-Immune thread or do some self trial runs with eliminating certain foods for a couple weeks at a time and see how you do.

The most offending foods are: gluten (in wheat, spelt, rye, barley); oats have a different kind of gluten and bother some people; dairy (though some do okay with goat cheese); corn; soy.

You might try cutting out things you eat a lot - for a week or so and then add back slowly one at a time. It's best not to eat the same thing more than 4-5 x a week and then take a week's break now and then. All allergy can develop from eating anything day in and day out for years.

Aspartame and MSG are instant mood bombs and damage the brain. Be sure to check all your labels, even cough drops, etc. Google for all their names.

Also best to avoid all artificial ingredients. While sulfites occur naturally in many foods, added sulfites can wreak havoc. Salad bars are loaded with sulfites to keep foods looking fresh.

Exposure to MOLD, as well, is an instant and deep depressant.

If you have MCS (multiple chemical sensitivities) both liver and brain are taken for a roller coaster ride when MCS is involved. The porphyria thread above has links for MCS if you have questions.

Good luck. Remember to assess nutrition as it might very likely be a deficiency. I'd sure start by increasing magnesium. Within a day or two you could notice a lift.
-

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Hoosiers51
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SG,

I strongly encrouage you to take the Lamictal. It is an AMAZING drug.

My psychiatrist prescribed it for me. He is one of the best in my state, VERY well-informed, amazing with how much he knows about all kind of diseases and how they work. (he understands dysautonomia, is open to chronic Lyme, etc).

Anyways, he told me that bipolar or these strange mood swings, in the brain, is literally like a mini-seizure going on in the brain, activity wise. And that the sooner you stop them, the less damage they will do.

So in other words, it will train your brain to operate properly, and prevent your brain from tending towards this kind of behavior.

Believe it or not, I don't even need the Lamictal anymore....antibiotics have solved all my psych issues (though I'm sure Lamictal helped and prevented damage). But when I went on the Lamictal, they were so bad, that I was a MESS, no one could stand to be around me. (I am almost 100% sure my issues were due to Lyme, bart, or some infection)

I was in the process of making some very bad life and relationship decisions, and was not myself at ALL. Basically unrecognizable. Lamictal brought me back.

Have you taken Bactrim? As far as I know, the black box warning is the same as the risks with Bactrim....risk of Stevens Johnsons Syndrome.

With SJS, if you stop the drug as soon as the rash appears, and go to the hospital, you will be fine, and it will reverse. The people that really get screwed are the ones that ignore the rash and keep taking the drug. Just don't do that, and you will be fine.

PLEASE strongly consider taking this drug....it has helped a lot of Lymies. When I used to be on a mental illness board, they had rankings and reviews of drugs, and Lamictal had the highest rating of any drug on the site, like 85% recommend, which is pretty amazing and hard to come by.

I had ZERO side effects from it. Your doctor can check your bloood levels. Mine were high, so he bumped me down to only 100 mg of it a day.

I will tell you though, that I prefer the brand to the generic. I think the generic would work if it's all you can get, but you might need a slightly higher dose, because I did not find them to be equivalent. So if you can, ask for "Do not substitute/brand only."

If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. Taking this drug was probably one of the best decisions I ever made, strange as that sounds. I really had to hit rock bottom with my moods before I went ahead and started it.

It was so easy to go off too, when I knew I was ready. I just tapered off and was fine. Today, I'm about the most even-keeled and logical person you'll ever meet, which is very hard to believe looking back. [Smile]

Also, as far as I know, cyclothymia is one of the worst in terms of what it does to the brain, because you are cycling so rapidly. The idea of someone with cyclothymia, even if it is caused by a bunch of infections, not going on Lamictal is scary to me.

I don't even want to know what those infections were doing to my brain. But I thank God I had this drug when I did, and that my parents forced me to go to a psychiatrist. I don't even know if my brain would have been as capable of healing without it. That is my two cents at least.

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sutherngrl
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Trigal, my llmd has a PhD in brain chemistry and has been seeing me for 2 years!

Sometimes as hard as it is and as much as you want to go into denial mode; you have to accept that something is wrong. The trying to accept part is where I am right now.

I'm not just accepting this. I am looking back through records and journals I have kept. I am reading about bi-polar disorders. I am having to face things about myself that I have been pushing back, trying to hide from everyone and pretend didn't exist. Its very hard!

I don't know the answer for sure; but you can also say that about LD. Its a shot in the dark as to what treatment you should choose or even what part of the entire lyme world to accept and what part to deny.

I have to weigh it all out and I have to have faith in my doctor, which I do for now. He has brought me a long way in 2 years. And I respect him very much. But in the end it is up to me.

keeb, I do take magnesium and I might try and increase it. It sure can't hurt.

Thanks for the replies!

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Hoosiers51
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SG,

For some reason I addressed my big long post to Lou....haha sorry. I think Lou had a post above yours and that's why.

Please don't get caught up with labels. I would just trust your doctor's intuition on what you need to be taking, no matter if you have bipolar or not.

I was in disbelief when I was told I had bipolar spectrum, and honestly, I still don't know if it was an accurate diagnosis (because my symptoms are now gone, and as I understand, bipolar doesn't really go away)....but I do know that the drug helped, no matter what exactly was wrong.

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sutherngrl
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Hoosiers, its the risk of the deadly and dysfiguring side effect of lamictal that can end you up in a burn center or dead that scares the heck out of me. Look it up and look at the pictures of people that have had the reaction. It is completey devastation.

I am truly afraid that my brain is possibly permanently damaged, because I do change my moods very quickly. It can be from minute to minute, hour to hour, or days or weeks; but its very strange to say the least.

The thing is, there has to be other medications with less severe side effects.

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sutherngrl
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Hoos, my doc said the same thing. That if you treat the cyclothemia, you can possibly reset the brain and then no longer need medication.
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Hoosiers51
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SG,

I have seen those pictures. If you stop the drug when the first warning signs come, you will be fine.

From what I understand, the people in the pictures continued the drug longer than they should have.

If you have taken other meds that can result in this, like Bactrim, I would think you'd be even more likely to be fine. I think Bactrim is an even higher risk SJS drug than Lamictal. Both Bactrim and Penicillins can cause it, and no one bats an eye over it.

This is from Wikipedia, under Causes:

"Although Stevens-Johnson Syndrome can be caused by viral infections, malignancies or severe allergic reactions to medication, the leading cause appears to be the use of antibiotics and sulfa drugs."

Antibiotics and sulfa drugs, not Lamictal!

But if you start to get skin manifestations, stop the drug immediately. I highly doubt this will happen.

Also, I highly doubt you are permanently damaged. The recovery I have made psych-wise is nothing short of amazing. No one here knew me back then, but if you would have, you would know that I am nothing like the person I once was. I think you will be fine, you just need to take the proper meds, etc. I believe all of it is reversible, especially since it's probably due to infection.

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sutherngrl
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Thanks Hoos! Very sweet of you to give me that info. I just have this little voice telling me not to take it. And another voice from hubby.

I was thinking lithium. It is suppose to be very good for mood disorders; and if not taken in high doses, has very few serious side effects.

I emailed my LLMD a while ago with my concerns and will see what he has to say.

My struggle right now, is with denial. I want to come up with a million reasons not to have cyclothymia; but the symptoms are so there.

I am very exhausted from trying to keep them under control without any help. I can't do it much longer. I am at a breaking point, but still a part of me thinks I can over come.

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Hoosiers51
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Also, did your doctor give you the starter pack? Starting gradually like that reduces your chances of SJS even further.

Just follow the starter pack's schedule, and stop if anything weird happens.

People don't even start amoxicillin or bactrim slowly, so again, I think the risk is low.

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Hoosiers51
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At the end of the day, it is up to you. You sound like you know you are in denial (sorry!), and I'm sure that having your husband tell you not to take it only gives you one more reason.

Luckily for me, everyone around me was telling me to take it. Lol, I think they couldn't stand to be around me.

Just please don't look at the pictures, they will only scare you. I think I had my starter pack for at least 7 days before I started it, until one day after spazzing out and hysterically crying, I was finally like, "enough is enough."

If you are afraid to start it now, just think about it for a few days. I tried to convince my psychiatrist that I didn't have bipolar spectrum, and I will never forget the look on his face. He looked shocked, and like he truly felt sorry for me. Bascially, his look was saying, "this girl has noooo idea," but there was still a lot of kindness in his expression. Basically, I could tell I was wrong and he was right.

It was really the look on his face that also helped convince me. So just give yourself a few days to think about it. The longer it sits on your table, the more time you will have to realize how important it is, and then you will be more sure of your decision.

Taking the first pill is a leap of faith though. Just don't let fear be the thing that controls your decision. I doubt your doctor would want you to take it if he thought something bad was going to happen, or if he didn't think it would help you.

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sutherngrl
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Yes a starter pack, but I didn't start!
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Hoosiers51
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Yes, it's the irony of the starter pack! [Wink]
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merrygirl
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I have a mood disorder as well. I take abilify and it has been great. It really helps me.

Best of luck

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Keebler
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-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Lamotrigine - 3150 abstracts

Lamotrigine side+effects - 1448 abstracts

Lamotrigine, liver- 102 abstracts

----------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamictal

Lamotrigine (marketed as Lamictal . . .)
-

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Keebler
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-
From a nutritional research site, with 3rd party citations:

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=Bipolar

Search results for Bipolar - 13 Articles

---

http://www.vrp.com/ArticlesSearch.aspx?k=Lithium_Ortotate

Search results for Lithium Ortotate - 10 articles found

==================

www.tahomaclinic.com/lithium1.shtml

Lithium - The Misunderstood Mineral - Part 1.

By Jonathan V. Wright, M.D. ( Reprinted From "Nutrition and Healing")

www.tahomaclinic.com/lithium2.shtml

Part II.

==================

Aspartame and MSG can cause mood disorders. As you check all your labels, this will help:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2384105525501310962#

EXCITOTOXINS: The Taste That Kills

VIDEO lecture just over one hour by the author of the book, Russell Blaylock, MD (neurologist)


Book: http://tinyurl.com/avq449

Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills - by M.D. Russell L. Blaylock

This is the 1997 edition

No customer reviews at this link but you can look inside the book and read (59 customer reviews) at the link for the 1996 edition of that book - http://tinyurl.com/as6je7

The customer reviews, in themselves, are an education.
Book: http://tinyurl.com/avq449

Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills - by M.D. Russell L. Blaylock

This is the 1997 edition

No customer reviews at this link but you can look inside the book and read (59 customer reviews) at the link for the 1996 edition of that book - http://tinyurl.com/as6je7

The customer reviews, in themselves, are an education.
-

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seekhelp
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SG, please consider mold as an issue too. I have had a very eye opening experience recently. I've been on Abx since Aug-08, though not super aggressive like Dr. B recommends. I had some good / more bad days.

A month ago, I tore out two carpets in our home and the padding. We put down Pergo floor. Immediately, I breathed better, went from waking up 3-4x a night to sleeping throughout the night completely for 30 DAYS STRAIGHT.

My head was clearer, my energy got better, my mood improved some. Do I think my Abx course finally paid off this month? No. I think I'm highly allergic to mold and dust and every carpet I remove can make a difference.

There seems to be SO SO SO much more to this than just Lyme. I've made my two biggest leaps not from Lyme Tx. #1 was eliminating some blood pressure meds like Norvasc and #2 the carpet removal.

Am I normal? Nope. Whatever you do, I wish you the best. I've strongly considered the anti-anxiety drugs too. I'm not sure of all your symptoms. Feeling bad brings you to insanity and having no predictability in your life does too. If you feel so much of it is frustration from not seeing massive improvement, then I would really consider one attempt at a different treatment course and then take a go at all other alternatives. Good luck. [Smile]

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tomcla2175
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My sister also was put on Lamictal along with Effexor,Seroquel and Klonopin all in high doses. These drugs all did an amazing job for her for about 2 1/2-3 years and then stopped working. This continues to happen after she is on any of these types of medications.
She was put on Zyprexa(anti-psychotic) in early December after nothing else would work and it worked for about a month and now she is doing better in some areas but is exhibiting some very strange behavior(never had before). The type of behavior she is exhibiting would warrant an anti-psychotic drug. We saw this type of behavior when she was in a psych hospital and they gave her high doses of haldol,thorazine and geodon. It took months for my sister to become normal again. Why not try to treat the problem instead of the symptoms and get your neurotransmitters tested and get on some natural neurotransmitters to help..check out neuroscience.com and read what they have to say about all of the pharmaceutical drugs for anxiety,depression,bi-polar,panic attacks, etc.,
We (our family) are anxiously awaiting my sister's Igenex results. The doctor got the results late yesterday and going to give them to her husband tomorrow morning. We are hoping that LD is what has been reeking havoc on our sister's brain and body for the last 15-20 years but even more so in the last 5 years.

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Hoosiers51
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posted by Keebler:

"PubMed Search:

Lamotrigine - 3150 abstracts

Lamotrigine side+effects - 1448 abstracts

Lamotrigine, liver- 102 abstracts"


After being on websites that rank psych drugs based on patients' experiences, I can tell you Lamictal is one of the best-tolerated psych drugs out there.

I think it would be more constructive for people to share their actual experiences with the drug, if any.

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Rumigirl
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Rebalancing the neurotransmitters with Neuroscience Lab is great, I've worked with them personally and as a practitioner. However, not all

conditions respond to this therapy. And Cyclothymia, or other mood disorders, are unlikely to be sufficiently treated by this alone.

Much as it would be nice to treat with natural things alone, in such a case, it's not sufficient. And people who say it is, in general, don't have personal experience with it---or as a practitioner.

I understand that Keebler didn't do well with the meds, and no everyone will. But that doesn't mean that they aren't for anyone. Sometimes we have to make hard choices---at least for a while.

While I would love to treat everything only naturally, I've been humbled by LD and other conditions. Sometimes the meds are better than the alternative--to go inadequately treated or untreated.

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azdaisy
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Wow have you gotten an ear full!! And here goes my ten dollar opinion:

Mood disorders are not tossed out there out of the blue. Only you know if you are having a hard time. Only you have to live with the hard time and the consequences of not addressing it.

For me, there was no question of was I or wasn't I..and then I discovered one of the hall marks of mood disordered individuals is that we loathe lables and medicine. It was true for me! I suffered for it too. So did my family and my career (when I still had one!)
Also, please consider that lyme is a storm in your brain causing a top down cascade of symptoms, why is it then so hard to think that there is an impact on your mood? Long term pain is depressing. Long term illness is depressing then add bugs to the mix? uh, yeah I'm mood disordered for sure!
Prior to dx I have been on 15+ different combinations and trials and errors.
Brain chemistry is real and vital to our recovery. Not all MD's are @%#holes. I cannot afford to righteously dismiss all medicine because of bad past experiences. I still need the help. I want to live and live well.
My MD explained to me that all years of cyctokein storms broke my happy and that I needed to suppliment happy until my brain remembered how to make it and that certainly while I was still storming my brain needed all the support it could get.
So here is my recipe and it has been a saving grace. The days of crying because I don't own a gun are gone and if you have ever been there you know how nice it is to NOT be there.
low dose Selegine, please check out www.selegine.com for lots of info on how it protects the brain, is commonly given to parkinsons patients etc..it is an old fashion MAOI with non of the side effects especially I take micro doses.
I take lithium orotate (OTC) low dose
Omegas 4 grms + daily
Low dose naltrexone www.lowdosenaltrexone.com
NO sugar NO flour = starve the bugs!
Cholestryimine is key too for detox
Magnesium glycinate for pain and mood
Neurosciences and there tests are awesome and that did work really well for me too!
Bipolar is not a dirty word, nor is cyclothemia..just words like brunette,short,Lyme you get to give it meaning and you can change that meaning at any time...Its your life, your recovery, your suffering, your choice.
I support you. Take a breath, follow your heart it really does know the way.
wishing you a smoother ride...

--------------------
AzDaisy
life requires action

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Keebler
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-
PubMed does not rate drugs - it's all medical abstracts. Not a patient site but a research site.
-

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littlebit27
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Apparently lots of meds Lyme patients take have black box warnings. I just googled it because I wasn't quite sure what the difference was between a black box warning and a regular warning. Don't know that much about meds.

Anyway...many of the abx that are prescribed for lyme and it's co-s are included in a list of black box warning meds.

The FDA requires these warnings because someone somewhere had a horrible reaction to the drug. If even one person has an adverse reaction to a drug it is requried to be put in the warning label. (I read this in a pysch class.)

I don't put much thought into warning labels, because if I did I don't think I'd be taking anything. Everyone is different and everyone will react differently.

I've never taken this drug but I've been on paxil. I was 16 at the time, this was before it was only recommended for people over 18 because of the increased risk of suicide in children and adolescents. I am still here, wasn't suicidal, and actually became much better. I was in a deep depression and I don't think I would have come out of it without meds.

Lithium is a good one, so is Klonipin. I've known people on both who have had great results with them. Klonopin can be addictive though.

Anyway good luck with what you decide. I know something isn't right with me either, my moods change, A LOT. And I get so much more mad then I use to. I know it's the Lyme, it is the only explanation.

--------------------
*Brittany Lyme Aware on FB*
http://littlebithaslyme.wordpress.com/

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sutherngrl
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I have decided to take this medication. I just hesitated because, I guess part of the problem for me was a little bit of denial. Sort of an overwhelming diagnosis!

The reality is that I have really been suffering. I have been pushing it down, making all kinds of excuses for it; pushing myself to the point of pure exhaustion. And it has gotten much worse lately; even though many of my other lyme symptoms have improved.

I think dealing with lyme and a psych disorder is a double whammy for us. Since most ppl don't understand either one. So its hard to take on both; but I want to get well.

I have a great LLMD, he has been my hero for the last 2 years. The only physician that has EVER tried to help me. If he thinks this is what I should do, I am going to do it.

SG

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Lymetoo
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Man, I wish you the best of luck.

I would stay in denial myself... but that's me!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Hoosiers51
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Best of luck! [Smile] [Smile]

Hoping it will help you greatly! Please come back after the first few days, and let us know how you are doing with it! I recommend it to a lot of Lymies, so I am interested to hear how people do. Most people end up staying on it, it seems.

Even at low doses, it can have an "anti-depressant-like effect" before the mood-stabilizing begins. So because of that, I noticed it was helping me within the first 5 days. Fingers crossed!

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merrygirl
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Good luck. I am glad you are going to try it.
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sutherngrl
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Thanks Hoos! Started it yesterday, so we will see. I will update in a few days or so.

Lymetoo, would love to be able to stay in denial; but I'm at the point of not being able to function. Also this is something that has to be treated or it can get worse. Thats a very scary thought!

It is possible that the lyme is actually much better, but because of the mood disorder its hard to tell whats what. It too can cause fatigue and pain, so I can't tell how much progress I am actually making with my lyme treatment. This medication should help sort some of this out.

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glm1111
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sutherngirl,

Check out GiGi's post about parasites. It talks about a woman who had a mood disorder and how it disappeared after she got rid of a tapeworm.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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METALLlC BLUE
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Treat it, those types of symptoms are often the last to go. They are miserable symptoms and you shouldn't have to feel so down or negative..

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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Hoosiers51
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sutherngrl,

Speaking of what you just said....

Just wanted to add my experience. I have had some very strange psych manifestations throughout this whole Lyme/bart/babesia ordeal.

I think some of them (like my OCD) are heavily influenced by genes and would be here with or without Lyme/co's, and some of them (like the bipolar) was mostly if not all the way from Lyme/co's. Though it is hard to know.

But I just wanted to tell you that I was also told by very reputable, even extremely Lyme literate, psychiatrists that my psych symptoms alone could account for all of my fatigue (and I don't blame them for saying that, because it is a real possibility). Having your brain that "taxed" can be literally exhausting physically.

But after treating the psych disorders, I found that the fatigue was NOT at all due to psych issues.

You may discover that your fatigue IS due to psych issues, and honestly, I hope for you that that is the case, because in my mind, that's easier to treat than Lyme/co's. But I just wanted to let you know my experience so you wouldn't feel swayed into believing your fatigue was psych if it isn't.

I finally realized this once I was COMPLETELY level-headed, no psych symptoms, happy as a clam (didn't even know someone could feel this normal and content psych-wise), yet was still exhausted.

Either way, being rid of the psych issues is a HUGE blessing, one I am consciously thankful for literally almost every day. Even after being off all psych meds for over a year, I look back still almost everyday and say, "wow, this is nice, feeling level-headed."

Good luck sorting it all out! Even if it is just psych-stuff that goes away, the good news is that that's still a major thing.

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sutherngrl
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Hoos, I agree with everything you have said. And thanks for all the info! I am starting very slow, 25mg for 2 weeks, then 50mg 2 weeks and so on.

Also the advice from my LLMD finally sunk in and I realize I have to treat the psych stuff. I am finally able to accept it calmly.

There are several highly respected LLMDs that say you must treat the psych stuff along with the lyme also. If left untreated it can become much worse.

I am not swayed by thinking the fatigue is psych stuff or lyme; but do hope it is psych so I can treat and leave the lyme behind me. Either way I see the reason now that it is neccessary to treat the brain.

I got lots of good advice here and thank you all for putting in your opinions.

But in the end I have to go with my LLMD. He is brilliant and I respect his opinion to the utmost.

I hope in a few weeks I can report some positive results that may be helpful to others facing these same issues.

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seekhelp
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SG, what exactly are your psych symptoms that cause you anguish? I'm wondering if I recognize any.
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greengirl
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Good luck, SG. I finally set aside time to read these posts, which are really helpful to me. The only thing I have to add is that I have been treating much more mild mood issues for many years without much success. Now that I'm treating lyme, I'm seeing improvements in most areas (fatigue, pain, mood, anxiety, sleep). In a way, I'm happy to have already been working on the psych part (and all the cognitive training). Take it easy.
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sutherngrl
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Seek, my psych symptoms are that I go from being really depressed to feeling either normal emotionally or to feeling like I could conquer the world, even though I can't conquer the world because I am way too fatigued. This can happen over hours, days or weeks. I have had depression that lasted as long as two weeks, but then I will somehow suddenly come out of it and feel much better for a while.

One minute I can be feeling depressed and within an hour I can feel happy and get really keyed up. I might talk really fast and I feel like a ton of much adrenaline is running through my body. Sometimes I will just have racing thoughts that drive me nuts. It is all very exhausting.

Even though many of my lyme symptoms have improved, this has actually gotten worse for me. My moods are basically out of control.

Some ppl think if the lyme is gone, then the pysch symptoms go too; but my doc and some other well known LLMDs say you have to treat the psych symptoms also. In some cases if the psych symptoms are not treated this can actually progress to a more serious psych disorder. Also my doc says the lyme could be better, but until we treat the psych symptoms is makes it hard to tell.

I am still treating lyme with low dose doxy, but he feels that once we address the mood disorder we will be more able to tell what is what.

Also if I don't take something, I feel like I am going to loose my mind soon.

Basically I need my brain to calm down or reset or something.

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seekhelp
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Thanks for the explanation SG. I wish you luck with your treatment. I hope it goes well. I always talk really fast at times, but that's my mode of functioning I think. My mind is very fast. I'm impatient at times with those who can't keep up.

With those symptoms, it definitely is possible there is an issue that could be treated. I feel we all deal with PTSD to a degree even if recovering as the Lyme/TBI experience is horrid. Being misdiagnosed, spit on by docs, feeling scared for our lives, etc. is a nightmare. Unlike cancer, AIDS, and other well-known illnesses, we get zero sympathy. It's BS.

Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sutherngrl
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Seek, exactly! A nightmare what we deal with.

Also meant to say that the anxiety at times is so awful! I would think most lymies have experienced some pretty intense anxiety however.

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Keebler
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" . . . like a ton of much adrenaline is running through my body . . ."

Maybe it is - adrenal issues are very common with lyme and can cause some very serious mood changes. If the HPA issues are addressed, that often is resolved.
-

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Rumigirl
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I forget if this was covered earlier in the thread: Are you treating for Bartonella? Or have you adequately treated for it? Because Bart can REALLY cause bad psych symptoms, as can Lyme.

I"m not saying that you shouldn't treat the symptoms, you should. But that is something to address if you aren't or haven't adequately. The psych sxs from Bart can be wicked! Esp the hyper, anxiety, irritable, insomnia stuff.

And, of course, Lyme can cause bipolar and every other psych dx in the book. Lovely, huh?! Many of us could write medical articles with the hard won knowledge we have.

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