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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Can alchohol increase symptoms

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Author Topic: Can alchohol increase symptoms
janice victorov
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Had some wine over the weekend. Today the tinging in foot seems to have reappeared.

Is this possible?? JKV [dizzy]

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jkv44

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sickpuppy
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I'm honestly surprised how many people on lymenet think they can drink and/or smoke. Seriously?

Below please see an excerpt from Dr. B's Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses,
which can be found in its entirety here:
http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

SUPPORTIVE THERAPY

CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED IF LYME SYMPTOMS ARE TO BE PERMANENTLY
CLEARED:
1. Not allowed to get behind in sleep, or become overtired.
2. No caffeine or other stimulants that may affect depth or duration of sleep, or reduce or eliminate naps.
3. Absolutely no alcohol!
4. No smoking at all.
5. Aggressive exercises are required and should be initiated as soon as possible.
6. Diet must contain generous quantities of high quality protein and be high in fiber and low in fat and
carbohydrates- no simple carbohydrates are allowed. Instead, use those with low glycemic index.
7. Certain key nutritional supplements should be added.
8. COMPLIANCE!

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janice victorov
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I know that. I up until now have totally avoided caffeine, sugar, yeast. I had a glass or so of wine.

I guess it's back to my restrictive regemin. Thanks knocking me back into reality. [Smile]

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jkv44

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jarjar
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I personally think Wine and Beer are probably the worst think to drink when dealing with lyme.
Not saying all others are okay.

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janice victorov
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I do well with following protocol. I am vigilent about meds, probiotics, diet during the week.

Well, just looking for more advice, insight.

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jkv44

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janice victorov
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I do well with following protocol. I am vigilent about meds, probiotics, diet during the week.

Well, just looking for more advice, insight.

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jkv44

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Keebler
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Unfortunately, spirochetes love to go to work the instant we look away or slip up. It would sure be nice to shut them down now and then but they don't know when it's a holiday or a deserved night out. They will ruin it, given any chance.

But our livers also are just so damaged that they can't keep up and the nerve fibers in our brains and heart are holding on by a tread. Alcohol can be very caustic and disrupting to them. The adrenals also take a hit that can keep on clobbering long after the fun is over.

Trader Joe's has a wonderful 100% Pomegranate Juice (organic). There are other fancy fruit drinks that don't have sugar added and are packed with antioxidants. Some restaurants and bars carry some of these but it's easy to call ahead and find out.
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TF
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Yes, evidently alcohol suppresses the immune system, so if you drink, the lyme and company can take advantage of the occassion.

Many people experience a terrible hangover from the smallest amount of alcohol. In fact, that is one of the symptoms of lyme disease!

Here is Burrascano, page 17:

"There are three things that will predict treatment failure regardless of which regimen is chosen: Noncompliance, alcohol use, and sleep deprivation."

For some, this is a wake-up call. Alcohol use will cause treatment failure. Period.

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janice victorov
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WEll, that's all I need to hear.

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jkv44

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Keebler
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It's be nice to have some of the "Invisible Man" and "Invisible Woman" science models that would show us what is going on inside.

I know one LLMD who does not want his patients even using alcohol based herbal tinctures due to the effect on the liver.

Once in a while, say scullcap tincture, maybe (as that only works in tincture form and is added to water before taking) . . . but to take several tinctures, several times a day really adds up and even that amount, he says, can further destroy the liver of patients who already are compromised.
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janice victorov
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Keebler,
thanks for the insight. Have you ever heard of using pinella, for brain fog? What about burbur for detox? Janice

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jkv44

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Keebler
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I would not suggest pinella, except as part of an overall formula used mostly to clear a stubborn cough.

I forget why, and I'm sure I have that post saved somewhere in my file but I'm too tired to look now. I distinctly remember that it has some cautions and is not to be alone or for a long time.

I'll be back later and post the citation for that.

Burbur - not sure if that's a trade mark product but sounds like it. My guess is it contains berberine. Berberine containing herbs can be fabulous but you should read up on the specific herbs in that formula. I'd also avoid alcohol if extracts are available in capsule form.

As for "detox" I really don't "go there" but I tend to work toward liver support, giving the liver what it needs and not push but focus on "detox" with gentle movement, warm bath and nutritious foods that are high in fiber.

=========

Edited to add:

I see that BURBUR is a trademark tincture of Nutramedix Desmodium molliculum. Of course, you've read their site and you can search for Desmodium m. and learn more about that in general. You may be able to find in a capsule or tablet form to avoid the alcohol.

I've used this variety with very positive effects but one cannot assume that different varieties have the same properties:

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/shalaparni-desmodium-gangeticum.html

Desmodium gangeticum

===================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed

PubMed Search:

Desmodium molliculum - term not found at PubMed

Desmodium - 121 abstracts (on five other varieties)

======================

I don't know about this site, it look just too flashy and too commercial for me but I can't really find much on Desmodium Molliculum. For what it's worth:

http://www.peruherbals.com/3030/manayupa.html

Manayupa 
(Desmodium Molliculum)

===================

http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Desmodium_molliculum

Desmodium molliculum - not much here about it other than it is a species. It would be nice to see some scientific 3rd party research on this.

I went to Rain-Tree, where they have great 3rd party research on all their products:

through http://www.rain-tree.com

Results for "Desmodium molliculum " - No matches found

They do have articles about Amor seco (Desmodium adscendens) but, again, different varieties can vary widely.
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Keebler
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Pinella
--------

It's excellent to help calm a cough, so it does settle down some nerve impulses. It also helps to calm nausea and is less stimulating than Ginger in that regard.

Is this in a formula? It is usually in a formula with other herbs to balance. It is used mostly in cough formulas.

Be absolutely certain you have a good source. Safety notes below.

===============

From ``The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook'' (Tillotson, et.al.)

http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/pinellia-tuber-pinellia-ternata.html

PINELLIA TUBER (Pinellia ternata)

WHAT IT DOES: Pinellia tuber is pungent in taste and warming in action. It dries up and dissolves mucus in the lungs, stomach and intestines, and stops nausea and vomiting.

RATING: Yellow, due to limitations in use and potential minor toxicity.

. . . In animal experiments, taste stimulation by pinellia tuber caused suppression of gastric vagus nerve activity, while stimulation with ginger root caused an increase in nerve activity. . . .

SAFETY ISSUES: Pinellia must be processed prior to use, to remove toxic elements (Li et al., 1991, reported in Yeung, 1983). The traditional method is to cook it with ginger, vinegar and/or alum.

Do not use during pregnancy.

Do not use long term. Do not use with bleeding disorders.

Use only under the guidance of a trained professional.

================

More on Pinellia safety -- regarding ephedrine:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/ephpin.htm

Excerpt:

The situation for Chinese herbalists is complicated by the fact that the report of ephedrine in pinellia has been from tests with the source material Pinellia ternata (referred to as "northern banxia," pictured upper left)

while most of the pinellia used in China and in the West is actually from a related plant that has the same uses: Typhonium flagelliforme (referred to as "southern banxia," pictured lower right), which has no ephedrine. . . .
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janice victorov
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Keebler,
thanks ever so much for your help. I will look at the links you sent me.

Have a good day. JKV

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jkv44

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hurtingramma
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Before I was diagnosed and started treatment (read, when I was young), I used to be able to drink my friends under the table.

Once I started treatment, 1 stiff drink would knock me for a loop. I now stay completely away from anything alcoholic. The last time I had 1 drink was at a wedding 4 years ago [Smile] . Got a wicked headache from it almost immediately.

My husband, on the other hand, still imbibes from time to time. Our LLMD told him if he Must drink, to stick with Vodka and leave beer alone! He does not have a problem with it affecting his behavior or with yeast.

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"Few of us can do great things, but all of us can do small things with great love". Mother Theresa

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1629665573&ref=name

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Keebler
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Oh, lyme itself and even a normally stressed liver has tons to do with alcohol intolerance but, I think it has to do with the excess porphyrins from the liver stress.

That can also result in a chemical sensitivity. That's why even a sip can really clobber someone. Like a whiff of cologne can clobber someone ten feet away, one sip is all it takes for the brain to recognize what our bodies have come to realize as poison.

And that's also why some Rx are just too strong for some. A lot depends on the enzymes that the liver can or can't manufacturer in order to process.

The "Secondary Porphyria" post here is most eye-opening:

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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/91842?

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