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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Buhner or Cowden?

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Author Topic: Buhner or Cowden?
lou
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My PICC line is about at the end of its useful life, I had a Hickman for a long time before that but couldn't get IV for very long.

I am tired of this, don't want another line. Don't really have much faith in alternative medicine.

Can't stand any herxing, as it makes my muscle wasting worse, and it is very bad now after several years.

So, are Buhner or Cowden going to be any help to someone like me? And if so, which one? And can I do this by myself, or does it need to be done under supervision?

Or should I give up? Really tired.

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sixgoofykids
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I like Buhner. It's less expensive and stronger than Cowden based on my experience. I do like some of the Cowden detox herbs - parsley, burbur.

Get the Buhner book, Healing Lyme, if you're going to do Buhner.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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JoesMom
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I read Buhner's book and took it with me to my son's LLMD at the time. Between the two protocols, she is the one who recommended the Cowden over Buhner's. She said she felt it was more affective.

She is not around anymore to ask but we went ahead and so far, so good on the Cowden. He is on month 5.

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canefan17
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I like both.

Cowden's is much more detailed and organized.

Buhner's seems to be more potent and has an emphasis on immune control (japanese knotweed acts as immune modulator)

Buhner seems to know his stuff. I have his book as well and go to www.planetthrive.com quite often so read the 170+ questions he's answered.

Buhner's philosophy is find balance in the body. He's not ALL about killing Lyme.

1) Repair collagen, clean up symptoms, modulate immune system, and THEN attack bacterial strains

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gwb
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I know you didn't ask, but back in December I was so sick I thought I was going to die. I researched, Buhner, Zhang and Cowden at the time because that's the only herbal protocols I knew about.

I was leaning towards Cowden until a gal from another forum saw me asking around about the different herbal protocols. She asked me why I hadn't considered the Jernigan protocol. I told her I never heard of it until she mentioned it.

Anyway, long story short, today I am feeling 80-90% better and am continuing to make progress every week. If you'd like to know more about this protocol I was on (still am) I started a thread about it back in Janurary titled, "Hansa Center Update" Here's the link to the thread:
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/89968?

Look it over, and if you have any questions feel free to PM me. One good thing about this protocol is that the herxes are very mild. Dr. J does not believe that we should suffer with difficult herxes. In fact, he believe herxes like you describe are a sign of poor treatment.

You can do the protocol at home, or he offers a two week protocol at the clinic which is quite expensive. His book, "Beating Lyme Disease" (on his website) has the protocol in it. Several people have done the protocol from the book and got better. I went to the clinic for two weeks and got better, and now I'm doing the rest of the protocol at home.

I'm very pleased with the results. Last December I thought I was spending my last Christmas with my family. I had never been sicker in my life. I took abx for five years and they ripped my stomach apart. Today I'm still paying the price for all the abx I took. By the way, I've had this disease for 15 years and wasn't diagnosed until five years ago.

I'm not anti abx, but abx don't work for everyone. I never was for natural treatments either. I thought natural treatment was a bunch of hocus pocus and never even considered it until my wife begged me to try one more protocol. I told her I'd do it for the sake of her and my grandkids, but if it didn't work that would be the end of it. I was ready to die and prayed every night that I wouldn't wake up to live another day. The pain and suffering of this disease had taken a toll on me. I lost all hope and was ready to die.

It sounds like you are in the same place I was. I'm sorry for your suffering. I pray that you find a protocol that best suits you. You can beat this disease--don't give up.

Read the thread I started and do your research--you'll find the answer you're looking for. I'm hear for you if you have any questions.

Gary

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FunkOdyssey
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I like Buhner because his methodology is scientific. He cites medical literature in support of his recommendations. He doesn't tell you to use homeopathy, rife machines, detox foot pads, or any other such quackery. And perhaps most importantly, he doesn't profit from your use of the protocol. A real stand up guy.
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gwb
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Dr Jernigan has tons of scientific backing for what he does. All of the things you call "quackery" is really an insult to those who have gotten better using some of these treatment protocols.

I've always thought it was better to be happy for those who got better by whatever method they used and support them rather than put them down and call everything that you disagree with "quackery".

You have a right to your opinion, but to be critical of others who have improved on rife therapy, homeopathic treatments, body detoxes, etc, has no value whatsoever.

By the way, you say Stephen Buhner didn't profit from his protocols? Did he write over 20 books (or co-author them) without making a profit? Obviously he did--more power to him. He deserved it.

Gary

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FunkOdyssey
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I'm very happy for anyone who gets better no matter how what treatment they used. The placebo effect is real by the way, its mediated by a real neurobiological response and it does cure illnesses.

You also incorrectly assume I am critical of people who use quack therapies, when I am not at all. It is entirely understandable given the circumstances: a perfect storm where mainstream medicine does not have the answers, patients are desperate, and quack practitioners are able and willing to deceive with pseudoscience.

Buhner's book is like $14. After the publisher takes its cut, lets say Buhner's profit from the book is $6. No matter how long you are on the protocol, or how many herbs you purchase, Buhner only gets that $6.

How much does Cowden, or Zhang, or Jernigan earn from your use of their protocols? More than $6 perhaps?

There is a reason why doctors are not allowed to sell you pharmaceutical drugs directly. Its called conflict of interest.

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canefan17
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Buhner seems to be more passionate about it all. And much more in tuned with nature.

I'm sure it has something to dp with the fact he's been through some illnesses himself. (he cured himself of hepatitis C using herbs)

his books are very informative and there doesn't seem to be an interest on profiting off us lymies.

Buhner deals with much more than Lyme.

I like the fact that his protocols are geared more towards finding a balance and common ground with the bacteria .... Rather than simply trying to destroy it 24/7.... And thus probably destroying ur own terrain.

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Remember to Smile
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To discount homeopathy is to fail to recognize the inspiration for all effective vaccines. Sounds like at least one member needs to take a good, long look across the pond... [lol]
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mattnapa
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I am new and do not have a take in the game, but I am curious how FunkOdessy knows the Jernigan protocol is quackery?
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gwb
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mattnapa,

He doesn't. Some people think that if a doctor is making money off a product he developed that their protocol is quackery. Just the way some people think.

If you've notice on the healing well forum (I think I've seen you there) there's been a few positive postings lately (other than mine) on the Jernigan protocol. If it was all quackery, I doubt that there would be good reports written up about him.

Gary

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mattnapa
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Gary- I am a fairly scientific guy, but in the context of these therapies and the surrounding lack of ability to create studies, I think some other frames to consider them are in order. Did you get my e-mail reply to you?

Matt

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CherylSue
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I've tried a modified Cowden protocol and Buhner's herbs. Although I know it helped some, it didn't do anything for me other than make me herx.

Long term abx worked better and quicker for me.

I paid $60 for one of Jernigan's concoctions, but then read how toxic lobelia, an ingredient he uses, can be. I threw the bottle away without trying it.

I also spent $1,000 on traditional Chinese medicine herbs and pills with a chinese doctor. I became sicker.

I tried Nexavir, some pig extract ointment, to the tune of over $1,000. Didn't help either.

I tried to follow the SHINE protocol from Dr. T from his book. Didn't help either.

It's trial and error for most of us. Everyone's body chemistry is different.

What helped me? Two different LLMD's who used abx. The second LLMD I
currently see also uses Guna homeopathics and Lauricidin and Isocort adrenal. I've made the most progress with her.

Trial and error, my folks. Good luck.

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FunkOdyssey
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quote:
Originally posted by Remember to Smile:
To discount homeopathy is to fail to recognize the inspiration for all effective vaccines. Sounds like at least one member needs to take a good, long look across the pond... [lol]

Vaccines contain antigenic proteins from the pathogen that is being vaccinated against. A relatively large, measurable quantity of this material is present in a vaccine.

Homeopathic remedies often contain nothing. Higher dilutions have been diluted to the point that not a single molecule of the original substance remains, with the idea that "water memory" (this sounds like a joke but it isn't) preserves some of its characteristics.

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Brussels
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We are not only composed of chemicals. Our cells know how to recognize electromagnetic signals. Without these, our hearts wouldn`t beat, our neurons wouldn`t function.

We aren`t just a juice of chemicals.

I`m also healed with homeopathy and virtually everyone that followed dr. W.`s protocol in Germany reported positive results.

Ingestion of chemicals can also provoke placebo effect. If not, there wouldn`t be any need to give placebo pills to test patients while testing new chemicals.

When the majority of people treating with homeopathy report such good results, not only with dr. W but with for example, the bart series of Desbio, and now these Jernigan products, I do keep my head open to possibilities. Besides, they cost little compared to most chemicals.

I thank Gary to share his story here.

Not understanding what homeopathy does is one thing. The Greeks already talked about dilutions and fabrication of diluted remedies.

For myself, I tried Buhner`s herbs for more than 2 whole years, without interruption. You can search my older posts here under the screen name hardynaka.

They are wonderful for borrelia and some symptoms, but I think if I were on them ONLY, I would be still sick or still needing to ingest these herbs.

They do help, they saved my life at least once, I believe.

But in no way I would leave homeopathy apart. Both are different modes of treatment and act different. Long term, homeopathy is much better than herbs (because they are basically chemicals and we need to fill in the tank with them, while homeopathy can correct you from inside out, for longer term).

If you read more of Buhner`s books, you will see that he sees plants as entities capable of spiritual interventions in a person, a profound spiritual transformation and healing powers.

So in no way, Buhner is the scientific guy against other homeopathic approaches. I talked to him about homeopathy years ago as I was one of the first to try Buhner's herbs, in the same year his book was first published.

He said he simply doesn`t know much about homeopathy, that is why he cited BRIEFLY in his lyme book about homeopathy but couldn`t give any more further help. But he cited homeopathy!!! He just doesn`t know much about it.

He has a scientific approach in that lyme book, but it doesn`t mean he is only that type of restricted mind as some of you are supposing. Just read his whole collection of wonderful books to know.

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