LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Anyone NOT pulse artemisinin?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Anyone NOT pulse artemisinin?
mmcmann
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 21872

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mmcmann     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
From what I have read here, everyone seems to pulse Artemisinin. But, my LLMD just prescribed it everyday.

Anyone one provide insight? Should I question my LLMD?

I also take following right now (just stopped Mepron because needed break due to severe symptoms - think Bart came out from hiding).

Zithromax MWF, 3 weeks on and 1 week off
Doxy everyday

I also take other stuff for detox, and supplements.
Thanks

Posts: 104 | From No. VA | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041

Icon 1 posted      Profile for merrygirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I take artemisinin everyday. No breaks about 5 weeks in. I think I heard you need to stop it every 3 months to prevent resistance to it.

I could be wrong

Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gatorade girl
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 24896

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gatorade girl   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I take it twice a day everyday.

--------------------
gatorade girl

"I still have Mt.Everest to climb, but I have traveled across the world and arrived at the mountain".

Posts: 633 | From baltimore | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mmcmann
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 21872

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mmcmann     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks merry and gatorade girls
Posts: 104 | From No. VA | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Haley     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My LL NP said to take it everyday. I decided to take it 3 times a week - TH, Fri, Sat. So I am taking it 3 X a week but that is not doctors orders. I'm trying to figure out what works best for me.

Artemisinin seems to really work well. I hope it will continue.

I also take Malarone everyday and Zith every other day.

Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TF     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do a search for previous posts on art. Others have stated previously that if you take the art continuously, your intestines will make an enzyme that blocks the absorption of the art.

If this is correct, then taking it every day is a waste.

My now famous lyme doc had me take it 3 days in a row, then 4 days off. I didn't ask him why. But, there must be something to this because, as you say, most people are taking it in a pulse fashion.

There is a doc around here who has patients taking it daily. (This could be your doc, in fact.) One patient decided to take it the way my doc told me to take it instead. That is, take it on the days that the weekly babs flare occurs. This person has had fabulous results taking the art this way. Says they will tell their doc about it so he can learn. We'll have to see how that goes.

My lyme doc got rid of lyme, babs, and bart for me in 1 year's time. I had these diseases undiagnosed for 10 years. It has been 5 years since I completed my lyme treatment and I am still symptom-free, enjoying my life. So, my doc's approach worked, and quickly.

Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I took it everyday, but only for about 2 months. It finished off the babs I'd been working on for more than 2 yrs. I took zith along with it.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 95340 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mmcmann
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 21872

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mmcmann     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the info. I guess I didn't look at enough posts [Smile]
Posts: 104 | From No. VA | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WhitneyS
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 25666

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WhitneyS     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yup-- I take it three times a day every day, and have under my LLMD's orders for about 5 months now.

If you want to I dont think it would hurt to take a week off every few months or so. I really dont see how anyone could prove that intestinal enzymes would block absorption... who would fund this sort of research?

Posts: 841 | From CA | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TF     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here are a couple of threads for you to read:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/92717?

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/93685?

Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
FunkOdyssey
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 15855

Icon 1 posted      Profile for FunkOdyssey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 2008 Mar;64(3):283-92. Epub 2007 Dec 7.
Artemisinin and CYP2A6 activity in healthy subjects.

Asimus S, Hai TN, Van Huong N, Ashton M.

Unit for Pharmacokinetics and Drug Metabolism, Department of Pharmacology, Sahlgrenska Academy at Gteborg University, P.O. Box 431, 405 30, Gteborg, Sweden.
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To investigate whether the antimalarial drug artemisinin affects CYP2A6 activity in healthy subjects and to compare the utility of coumarin and nicotine as in vivo probe compounds for CYP2A6. METHODS: Twelve healthy male Vietnamese subjects were given coumarin or nicotine in randomized sequence before and after 5 days of a repeated oral administration of artemisinin during two different treatment periods 1 month apart. Sequential blood samples were drawn at baseline 7 days prior to artemisinin treatment and on the first and fifth day of artemisinin treatment during both treatment periods. Plasma concentrations of 7-hydroxycoumarin glucuronide (7-OHCG), nicotine, cotinine and artemisinin were analysed by high-performance liquid chromatography and those of coumarin and 7-hydroxycoumarin (7-OHC) were determined by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry. Urine, collected in two time intervals on the days of coumarin intake, was treated with beta-glucuronidase and analysed for 7-OHC levels. RESULTS: Artemisinin AUC(0-infinity) values decreased significantly to 23% [95% confidence interval (CI) 18%-28%] on the fifth day of artemisinin administration as compared with the first. The sum of renally excreted 7-OHC and 7-OHCG increased by 1.55-fold (adjusted 95% CI 1.08-2.23) in the 3- to 8-h interval compared to baseline 7 days before. The 7-OHCG/7-OHC plasma AUC(0-infinity) ratio increased by 1.72-fold (adjusted 95% CI 1.16-2.54) following 5 days of artemisinin intake. There was no significant change in the cotinine/nicotine AUC(0-11 hr) ratio between study days. CONCLUSION: Artemisinin significantly increased the sum of renally excreted 7-OHC and 7-OHCG in one of the two collection intervals, suggesting an induction of CYP2A6. A significant increase in the 7-OHCG to 7-OHC AUC(0-infinity) ratio indicates artemisinin to be an inducer of glucuronidation.

PMID: 18064444

Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
FunkOdyssey
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 15855

Icon 1 posted      Profile for FunkOdyssey     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Artemisinin induces enzymes which accelerate its clearance, as you can see you would need to take a five times larger dose on the fifth day to achieve the same concentration as the first day. Impractical and probably unhealthy.

Hence, pulsing.

Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149

Icon 1 posted      Profile for canefan17     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Buhner recommended I take 400mg/day for 30 days.

I'm gonna give this shot... considering my babs is mild case.

After these 30 days I'll take a week off and start crypotlepis for a month or so.

: )

Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pj1954
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 11722

Icon 1 posted      Profile for pj1954     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
bhunner recommends in his book not to take it more than 21 days otherwise you build up an immunity to it !

so if you pulse it it keeps working !

Posts: 294 | From sw chicago suburbs | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nefferdun     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I took it twice a day every day for several months until I did not remember to reorder and ran out. I don't have the babs symptoms any more so not worrying about it.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
troutscout
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3121

Icon 1 posted      Profile for troutscout     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have read 3 pills a day for ten days.

In fact....Ive heard that about 75% OF THE TIME

tROUT

--------------------
Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within.
Let the claws be bared,
and Lyme BEWARE!!!
www.iowalymedisease.com
[/URL]  -

Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
KH111
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 25829

Icon 1 posted      Profile for KH111     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You can take it every day for about 2 weeks or so, but should not take it every day for months on end. You will build up resistance. I think I took it for 3 weeks at a time and then off one week, while taking mepron and zith. I also took one course Riament also called Coterm (sp). Have been off abx for 5 years now.
Posts: 160 | From somewhere | Registered: May 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lauralyme     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If it's taken with grapefruit juice an immunity doesn't develop

--------------------
Fall down seven times, get up eight
~Japanese proverb

Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
NMN
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 11007

Icon 1 posted      Profile for NMN     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I responded brilliantly to Art and took it everyday but it stopped working and panned out pretty much like FunkOdyssey's study seemed to suggest. I would pulse it for sure.

--------------------
Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos)
Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007.

Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Remember to Smile
Unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by KH111:
You can take it every day for about 2 weeks or so, but should not take it every day for months on end. You will build up resistance. I think I took it for 3 weeks at a time and then off one week, while taking mepron and zith. I also took one course Riament also called Coterm (sp).

Have been off abx for 5 years now.

Great news for you, KH111! Good to hear.

I need advice.

Just started Artemisinin yesterday, and it dragged me almost to the ground. Wanted to lie down on the floor in exhaustion several times right where i was (including bathroom floor!)

Had to sit on toilet lid to brush teeth 'cause no strength to stand. Walk thru my house like an 85-yr-old nursing home resident (SLOW & bumping hands along the wall, resting by gripping onto chairs or door jambs).

New headache pain, horrid neck strain, pectorals pulling on clavicles, more weakness...

My Babesia load tested "very high," so this is a good herb for me. I also take doxy, Mepron & clarithromycin all 2x/day.

My good LLMD prescribed 200 mg Art 2x/day "between meals," which i took to mean with my other supplements taken on an empty stomach.

Question: When ought I go off for the one week in relation to my Borrelia symptom pattern?

I've seen improvement (lessening of symptoms) for 3 or 4 days at the same time each month. With that in mind, when would you suggest i take the one wk off?

Looking forward to hearing from members. Thx.
Achy
Smile

Update: I felt much better on Day 3 with Art! [spinning smile]

[ 08-17-2010, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Remember to Smile ]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Remember to Smile
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
When should i schedule the one week off Artemisin?
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Hoosiers51     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think the study speaks for itself. After 5 days, it's not very effective.

Sure, you could try adding grapefruit juice, but considering artemisinin can be hard for the liver to get rid of, I wouldn't risk it....I would just pulse.

Also, grapefruit juice interacts with many meds. Not something I would mess with unless I knew what I was doing, like if I were a pharmacist or knowledgable doctor....which I'm not.

So I pulsed mine...I think it was either 4 days on, 3 off, repeat....or 3 on, 4 off, repeat.

I would show your doctor that study. There are other studies out there too. Artemisinin has been used for malaria, so there ARE studies on it.

I would be sure to be getting liver function tests regularly while on it.

Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Beachinit
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 21040

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Beachinit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dr B at recent conference says to take Artemisinin 2-3 wks in a row on a daily basis and then take 1 wk off.
I found out about the conference notes 3-4 wks ago and I had been taking Artemisinin Fri-Sun prior to that along with bactrim ds twice/day. I had taken it that way for 5 months and had noted some gradual improvement in Babesia symptoms. I was also taking it with clarithro or doxy at different times and I noticed a synergy especially with the doxycycline. I had not seen a reference on that but I researched anti-malarial medications and doxycycline does have low level antimalarial activity. 3 weeks ago I started taking levaquin for Bartonella and also noted some synergy with Artemisinin in reducing symptoms of Babesia. So to MMC I think you may see this synergy at well... please let us know if you do. I could tell about the synergy by the extra yawning I was doing on Art + Doxy in particular.

--------------------
Ideas not advice.

Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Remember to Smile
Unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for an update from Dr B, Beachinit! [kiss]

Scientifically, when in the life cycle of Borrelia should we take the one week off from Artemisin?

Time it on one side or the other of the up days in my monthly chart of symptoms?

What are the spirochetes [Cool] doing on the 3 to 4 days i feel a bit better?

My successful LLMD keeps up with the latest ILADS tx protocols, so i'm confident following the 3 wks on/one wk off dosing plan. Just trying to maximize everything. Guess I'll have to call...

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Remember to Smile
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TF:
My now famous lyme doc had me take it 3 days in a row, then 4 days off. I didn't ask him why. But, there must be something to this because, as you say, most people are taking it in a pulse fashion.

There is a doc around here who has patients taking it daily. (This could be your doc, in fact.) One patient decided to take it the way my doc told me to take it instead. That is, take it on the days that the weekly babs flare occurs. This person has had fabulous results taking the art this way. Says they will tell their doc about it so he can learn. We'll have to see how that goes.

My lyme doc got rid of lyme, babs, and bart for me in 1 year's time. I had these diseases undiagnosed for 10 years. It has been 5 years since I completed my lyme treatment and I am still symptom-free, enjoying my life. So, my doc's approach worked, and quickly.

TF was treated for Lyme disease by two other LLMDs before Dr S, so she may have given him a bit of a "head start" on clearing infections. Now her quick & lasting recovery is great!

It appears the ILADS advice on Art dosing has been modified since 5 yrs ago.

I encourage everyone to check in with your LLMD, LLDO, or LLRN before changing a treatment your LLMD ordered. Work like a winning team; communicate!

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.