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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Why No Interest in HEALING Organs ?

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Author Topic: Why No Interest in HEALING Organs ?
massman
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There seems to be so little interest in this.

Seems like take this or these drugs, take this or these supplements FOREVER !

If you really help make organs healthier, won't you have to take Less things ?

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D Bergy
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I guess I am guilty of this, but my concern is how do you know if an organ is unhealthy, or if you have healed it. How do you measure this?

It seems a leap of faith unless you can tell one way or another.

Dan

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massman
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Some of the electronic testing can tell if an organ is stressed, how much it is stressed and if the stress is increasing or decreasing.

May also tell what types + how much of an organ healing supplement is needed or optimal at that time.

There are some specific symptom surveys that are split into sections for specific organs and / or organ systems. Compare to previous tests.

Sclerology is a way to observe specific organ stress and its intensity by evaluating specific lines in the sclera of the eyes.

And of course AK (Applied Kinesiology / muscle testing)
You can recheck these with a baseline that you started with.

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D Bergy
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I do not have any of that available to me, given my location, but have you found that it helps you out, and is accurate?

I am always willing to learn something new.

Dan

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Tracy9
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Would love to hear more; sometimes I have trouble absorbing everything. Can you tell us more? I'd also love to know more about what you do. You are near me and I'd like to know.

--------------------
NO PM; CONTACT: [email protected]

13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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Tracy9
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I'm particularly interested in knowing if there is any way to rid the body of radiation. I have had about 15 CT scans in the last 2 years, and just found an article which shows me I have been exposed to far more radiation than victims of Chernobyl. I am pretty upset about this.

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13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG.

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sutherngrl
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Goodness Tracy9! I had 2 CT scans in a one year period in 2007, and then right after that read how much radiation you actually recieve from a CT scan. It was very disturbing.

I don't know why Massman assumes that no one is not interested in their organs??? But you still have to kill the bugs!

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sparkle7
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Modifilan is supposed to remove radiation toxicity from the body. I never tried it but I've read about it.

http://www.naturodoc.com/library/detox/Modifilan-about.htm

(FYI - I don't sell it, either.)

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sixgoofykids
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Miso (a fermented soy product) is known for detoxing radiation. Google "radiation miso" and you will see.

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massman
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Dan - have found those all good ways to moniter but some of that depends on the training and intent of the practitioner.

Tracy - when I first relocated back to MA I was testing and doing some work immediately west of Sturbridge. I found + visited your site + invited you + your hubby up to show you how I test with the machine and to try our far infrared sauna.

Don't recall exactly now but there was no interest in that then. Now I am mostly bedbound due to extreme arthritis in both hips + am waiting for bilateral hip replacement.

On the radiation exposure I would suggest contacting some of the Naturopathic Docs in your state to see if they have ways to help you.
n

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D Bergy
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Sorry you have so much Arthritis problems. Is that from Lyme, or something you had previously?

Dan

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Keebler
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-
So. If no interest, so what? But just because people don't to things the way you would, that does not mean they are not interested. Give 'em a break. We're all doing the best we can and I see lots of interest around here.

If someone chooses to use Bio-Identical hormones, on the advice of their LLMD, they should not be bullied- which is where this latest criticism is coming from another thread today. Bio-Identical hormones are really very helpful at times, for many women.

I see your critical twin post over there has since been deleted, so it's just been carried over to here - for everyone.

Supplements are to support and protect during treatment. That is vital. But it's not fair to slam people, in general as "having no interest."

I see a great deal of interest here in people wanting to know the best way to offer support. There are many posts on nutritional supplements that do help support the body while going through treatment. Without some of those, the body would have far more stress.

No one can say there is no interest in helping the body. Most here take protective liver supplements that are vital in light of the toxins form lyme and the chemical nature of meds that help address infection. Milk Thistle, for instance, has a wonderful track record across the board as a liver protector.

Wouldn't it be nice not to have to take anything, sure?

But lyme changes so much that our bodies need more concentrated effort and to ignore the protection needed would be risky. Sick organs can't heal on their own. Supplements are basically very concentrated food, intended to help heal.

So, I'm confused why that's seen as being bad. It's nutritional support. And that helps provide a chance for healing.

How we each do that is up to each one of us. Judgement and criticism do not help.
-

[ 06-21-2010, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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With most Rx (and many OTC products), there can be liver stress. So, it's not a good idea to drop liver support and hope that organ can get better without support. It won't and it can't as along as infection - and medication - are in the picture. It needs help with that. While this protocol is not the same as for lyme, many of the same Rx are used.

PubMed is full of medical abstracts detailing protective effects of milk thistle, ALA, etc. regarding the liver when faced with toxic challenges.

===========================

http://www.cpnhelp.org/liverprotection

Dr. Stratton Cautions on Protecting the Liver

. . . "Surprisingly, the only anti-chlamydial agent that did not cause hepatitis in some patients was NAC. In fact, NAC is recognized as being protective. . . .

. . . My conclusion is that NAC should be the first agent in an anti-chlamydial regimen and should be a constant part of the therapy for this protective effect, not to mention it's effect against elementary bodies. . . .

. . . more at link above.-

=====================

Lyme can cause temporary & permanent liver damage. Some organs may not be able to heal. So, all along the way, we need to be mindful of that.
------------

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/romarkaraoke/whento.htm

When to Suspect Lyme - by 
John D. Bleiweiss, M.D.

Excerpt:

. . . Lyme hepatitis occurs in approximately 15-20% of patients. Liver tenderness is inconstant and the elevated liver enzymes respond to antibiotics. Sometimes, the hepatitis appears temporarily in the early phases of treatment with subsequent resolution. . . .
-

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Melanie79
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I never said I didn't have an interest in healing. Did you ask? Um, no, you didn't. You assumed, is that correct?

To start, I'm new here, new to Lyme and new to hormone problems. I've been sick for 2 years and in just the last month, things have come together for me, so to speak. I have a good doctor, what I believe to be a good plan of attack and I have hope that I will get better--with or without supplements.

So I ask you--I'm low on progesterone--what exactly do I try to heal? What organ am I healing in regards to low aldosterone? I would love to be completely HEALED of everything but obviously I don't have the knowledge, the funds or the medical professionals to do that. Who am I to play God?

While we're at it--I have thyroid problems, as in I have no thyroid. Do you have any recommendations for this issue? Really, I'd love to hear them. If I envision a thyroid gland, will it grow back?

I'm not a pill popper and hate putting anything I don't have to into my body. Unfortunately, this vicious disease seem to have a different idea.

For now, I must trust my LLMD. I truly feel that he has my best interest at heart. If I have to take supplements and vitamins as SUPPORT, I will certainly do so and I don't expect to receive flack for asking a simple question on a support board.

I've researched on my own, I've talked to the pharmacist and when I came here, I was looking for some personal opinions from real people who have suffered from the same issues.

Thanks again to those who shared opinions/links, etc.

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TerryK
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massman - Very odd thing to say for someone who has posted in many threads where these things are discussed. Lots of discussions about this very thing before you started posting at lymenet and since.

If you care to search the archives you can find many discussions on healing the liver, adrenals, gut, colon, thyroid, brain, ears, immune system, sex hormones etc. etc..

Also discussions geared toward healing the whole system by working on the body terrian, cleaning up toxins and the list goes on.

Getting rid of the infections, leaky gut and some of the other underlying issues IS part of healing the organs and body as a whole.

Terry

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mati
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Yes massman I see the same lack of interest, and not just here but on other boards for chronically sick people. The focus seems to be on getting rid of a pathogen, or on supplementing the body with what it is short of instead of getting to the very basics and healing from the cell up.

If we have a system that is toxic and allows pathogens to flourish, then the way forward is to reduce that toxic load and it has to start with what is going into the body - air food and water. They all need to be a clean as possible. I do not see a lot of interest in the food one but acknowledge that people get confused that there are so many diets pushed and so much disagreement but if one researches the subject, it become clearer.

One of the reasons is that here cannot be a diet for all as we have various sensitivities but it is possible to say which are the most common that is gluten dairy soy and corn and a good source on this subject is Dogtor, who is a vet. If anyone thinks that strange there is a saying that if you want to be healthy consult a vet and I agree a lot with that sentiment and especially with this one who knows his stuff.

I think that this is the absolute first step we must take even though it takes time to work through it and to exclude the foods and drinks that are bad for our system. There are various ways to do it and I found out be trial and error but once I cut out all of the bad guys things really started to move in my healing by basically living on seeds fruit and vegetables.

At the same time one must get the chemical load down in the environment we live in especially the bedroom.

Even if we are on the abx route, we will still end up with the same system that allowed the pathogens to gain the upper hand, but with weakened immunity if we do not get down to this deep level of healing.

Of course it takes commitment self discipline and time and of course money, but our health is our greatest asset and if we tolerate a lower level than we can achieve by making it our priority, then we stand the risk of being the target of any pathogen looking for a home or for reactivation.

I don`t agree with any quick fix here, or ways of boosting the immune system artificially or the taking of supplements to hold things together possibly for life. I believe that the body will heal itself if we stop putting in what it struggles with and this is the best and most permanent healing.

Once the terrain has been dealt with then we can look at things to assist like herbs etc but unless the groundwork is done, it is all just sticking plasters over it all.

mati

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massman
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I am very aware of all the threads and discussions.

Not going to waste time explaining things I have already explained [Roll Eyes]

Physically impossible to heal without the right parts and right energy [Cool]

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massman
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Melanie I have knee jerk reactions when I see or hear bioidentical or progesterone cream mentioned.
Sorry on the assumption about you.

First a good assessment on organs that produce hormones (all), liver health, digestive system health, diet and other associated possibilities (like nervous system as the adrenals have tons of nerves connrcted to them.)

Was your thyroid removed because it was overactive ?

LLMDs or any type of doc may be sincere but very well may not have a good knowledge of hormones, how to assess them ( except from blood which in many cases is not too accurate) and then what to do.

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sixgoofykids
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Hmm, interesting. I use progesterone cream and it's helping a lot. I am working on healing my organs but some of my hormones just aren't right. I also have to take Armour thyroid.

Yes, I hope to be off all hormonal supps and am working toward that goal.

However, our environment is loaded with estrogen in pollutants!! Women and men both can get estrogen dominance. My LLMD has me on DIM for that since both of my parents had cancer and I sleep better if I use progesterone cream during the second half of my cycle.

My body is healing and I need less and less to keep it well, but there still are deficiencies that need correcting.

Aside from recommending different supplements from those that are working well for me, massman, what do you recommend to do to encourage healing? I would like to hear.

My liver tests fine. My adrenals borderline low, though I believe they've healed a lot since then. My thyroid is fine, but I still take one grain. A GI doctor years ago could find nothing wrong with my digestive tract though I had major parasites at the time. My leaky gut is healing with diet.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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c3mom
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I don't take offense to your post. However, there was a time when I just didn't know any better.

When I first joined Lymenet, I had brainfog and could only comprhend so much. Now that I am better, I have more time to focus on my specific healing.

Massman, I think you could have posted 15 posts about healing organs and I wouldn't have "got it". I do now. And I find when I talk to others they are not ready yet.

So, keep posting, someone will read your post and it will be there right time.

Take Care

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ott70
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First off, I appreciate massman's comments about a lot of stuff and think he brings some good knowledge to the table. I don't know what he posted in the other thread, but maybe he is having an off day?

I don't think he carries any malicious intent but maybe just offers some pointed comments once in awhile that other people don't appreciate it.

I love Keebler's posts also. Always informative.

As for this thread, I'm all about organ healing. I just don't think I do a good job of it and, yes, I get caught up in eradicating the bugs and getting a diagnosis rather than assisting my God-given body to function like it should.

That being said, there is so much info out there that my head spins like a top in trying to figure out what I should be taking. Or not taking. Or eating. Or not eating. Etc.

Lymies really need a coach like professional athletes do, someone who is with us all of the time instead of these monthly appts to an LLMD. I would love to have a local naturopathic doc/LLMD who I could see daily if it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

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sparkle7
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I think alot of people are living their lives & just get hit with Lyme & tick related illness. They aren't thinking about their spleens or thyroids. Most people want a quick fix so they can get on with their lives. They don't want to spend 1000s of hours studying liver function or the life cycle of Bb...

When the quick fixes don't work & the illness takes hold... then, people have to slow everything down & start studying. This has been my experience.

Maybe someone could separate the organ functions & put up separate threads about each organ to show how things can be done to heal them? It would be nice if these things did not include going to a doctor - if possible.

Just saying that people should think about healing their organs is not specific enough. We need to know what the disfunction is & how it effects us in relation to tick borne illness, viruses, toxins, parasites, etc. Then, we need to see what helps it.

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lajamur
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i think people here are very interested in healing and reconditioning their organs and bodies!

there is also an emphasis on reducing bacterial load and ridding the body of toxins -- understandably!!

these things are not mutually exclusive.

they all complement each other, really.

--------------------
Symptoms since age 4
IGM positive Western Blot (Bb)
PCR positive Spiro Stat (Anaplasma)
Suspect babs and bart

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massman
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Good assessment of the HPA axis - electrodermal screening, symptom survey etc.

Does there seem to be a primary or are there are a few endocrine organs involved ?

To me, using progesterone cream leads to feeling better for some. That is OK, but if you have to take it for a long time, the correct organs are NOT healed.

IF the organs are healed you will not need ongoing supplements. Make sense ?

Six, you seem to have reached a few sticking points in your progress.

To truly heal your body needs access to what can really assist it with rebuilding organs. I have repeatedly said that many if not most supplements DO NOT have all those parts.

Vitamins occur in complexes when in their truly natural states. Our not so brilliant scientists have decided (and very much sold to the public) the idea that there are what they call the active part or parts and the rest is just inactive "filler".

Like with scurvy, British sailors found the C in limes (noooooo pun intended) really helped prevent it. Not a fractionated part, but the whole thing.

Ascorbic acid BY ITSELF is not really vitamin C with all its parts that naturally occur in nature. BUT almost everybody will tell you it is and insist it is. "Everybody" knows that, which to many makes it true. And many people get defensive when challenged (I do at times). But learning, IME, comes from being inquisitive, not defensive.

Since we are both physical and energetic beings healing can occur when both of these factors are supported CORRECTLY. With specific supplements that I see I am not allowed to mention.

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sparkle7
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There is no one size fits all solution... Sometimes we need surgery, sometimes we need herbs, sometimes we need meditation, sometimes we need psychotherapy, sometimes we need drugs...

I think healing as opposed to killing pathogens is needed at times. With all of the toxic drugs prescribed, there is a lack of balance in Lyme treatment (in my opinion).

Many of the health issues we face are unique to us as individuals. We need individual treatments. There are people here who say, "Everyone should do what my famous doctor says to do." or "Everyone here should take this brand of supplement or herb."

I don't think it works that way. Partly, because there is a mind/body connection. In some cases, if a person believes in what they are taking or they have great faith in their doctor/drug/supplement/treatment/device - they may get well.

Belief has alot to do with healing. Maybe not 100% but it's a pretty high percentage. Maybe 40%...? This is why placebos actually work for some people.

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Keebler
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Placebos may work to a degree regarding a condition such as a headache. And biofeedback has a lot to do with that, even if a person doesn't know it, they are employing biofeedback techniques and, often, even self-hypnosis. The mind/body can be very helpful, indeed.

Still, for treating infections - addressing virulent microbes - science (whether Rx or specific antimicrobial herbs) is the strong suit. There may be a few on this earth who can think themselves well from TB or venomous snake bite, but that would be a very few.

If placebos worked to eradicate borrelia, none of us would be here now. We ALL put our hopes and positive thoughts to this.

And, yet, mind/body biofeedback and hypnosis techniques are still a very important part of our daily self-care to manage it all and help our body be in a better position for what is needed regarding medicines or supplements to do their specific jobs.
-

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sixgoofykids
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Makes sense, Massman. When I used supps, I use ones from whole foods (as in food, not the store) as much as I can.

I haven't really reached "sticking" points, it's just certain areas are not all the way healed, and that takes time because I was sick for so many years.

One being my need to take Armour Thyroid, the other being the benefits I receive from progesterone cream. Part of the progesterone cream issue could be that I am 47 and the body makes less hormones naturally by that age, yet I still have high estrogens due to our polluted environment. The cream balances that ratio somewhat.

I think that in a perfect world, I wouldn't need either progesterone cream or thyroid, but in our polluted-by-hormone-world I do.

Also, due to KPU, I need specific supps for that. I don't have an active problem with this, just like my thyroid and my hormones, it's under control, but with supps.

I think that our food is not full of the nutrients are foods used to have naturally. I believe this to be part of the reason some need ongoing supplementation.

You are allowed to mention supps as long as you're not selling them .... just be understanding when someone chooses to use something else.

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sparkle7
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I agree that we need something that will kill pathogens. I don't think we can do that by mind alone.

I was just thinking about it because I read an article in The NY Times about it yesterday. There was an article about how a doctor was studying the placebo effect. Dr. Bernie Seigel wrote a book about mind & healing that I read a while back.

Mindset is important in healing. If people have faith in abx, perhaps they will work better then if the person tried herbs if the person feels uncomfortable with herbal medicines. It's really about what someone may believe in.

I know if I take an oxycondone - it gets rid of pain. I don't think it has to do with belief. It's due to chemistry. There is a connection between body & mind in healing to some degree. If someone takes a cyanide pill, I don't think they could think their way out of being poisoned.

Just something I'm thinking about...

The herb vitex may help with increasing progesterone.

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sixgoofykids
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Thanks, Sparkle, for the recommendation. That looks like a strong herb!!!

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massman
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Forgot my no selling supplements disclaimer !

Will I be sentenced to ROT in _____ for forgetting ? Ooooops, now I need to post my "this is a joke disclaimer. Tired + cranky [cussing] disclaimer ? Holy _____ I can't believe this disclaimer [bonk] Oh that makes me sick disclaimer [puke]

Smiling can make you healthier, so this doc would like you to smile MORE [Cool]

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springshowers
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Massman

I think for sure you got to support organs. Read me in the rife thread and I say it over and over and I am amazed how well the RIFE works on Organ support. AMAZED AMAZED>

ALSO> I used the RIFE on my Mothers Hip and she had surgery on one hip but her cancer spread after the surgery she regrets it. Also she is seeing a doctor who does only physical work and she is improving a lot without surgery which is amazing. Also I did RIFE On her and she went from barely being able to walk to running with no pain. NO JOKE> so she is doing it more often and getting her own machine. We are not sure if doing it more often is going to produce a cummulative affect. But she wants to try. I will let you know.

I hate to see anyone go through surger when it may not be necessary. She admits even with the Physical therapy she wishes she had tried MORE before doing the First surgery..

Hindsight.

And.. hey.. Stop worrying about stuff so much. Stress is bad for all conditions.. I know you must know that..

Blessings to you.. and think about Rife..

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by massman:
Forgot my no selling supplements disclaimer !

Will I be sentenced to ROT in _____ for forgetting ? Ooooops, now I need to post my "this is a joke disclaimer. Tired + cranky [cussing] disclaimer ? Holy _____ I can't believe this disclaimer [bonk] Oh that makes me sick disclaimer [puke]

Smiling can make you healthier, so this doc would like you to smile MORE [Cool]

That's what I thought ..... it just threw me when you said you couldn't talk about supplements.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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springshowers
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Massman

someone just posted this. how ironic

I would read it if you have time .. regarding your hip and my comments above

just trying to help and I hate to see anyone do surgery when they could avoid it


http://rifeenergymedicine.com/1028article.html

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massman
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Thanks x 10
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