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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » dr says probiotics useless while on abx??

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Author Topic: dr says probiotics useless while on abx??
randibear
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i went to my gastro yesterday and said i was on florastor and was also taking about 4 other probiotics.

he said the florastor ws good because it replaces certain bacteria and it prevents c. diff HOWEVER taking probiotics with antibiotics are totally useless.

WTH? i didn't argue but said i wsa going to continue them anyway.

and this is a gastro? i didn't dare mention lyme!!

have you ever heard such lunancy??

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do not look back when the only course is forward

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bcb1200
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As far as I know this isn't true. Yes..Abx will kill probiotics. But you should take them to replace the ones being killed.

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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LymeXtu
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All I know is I have suffered with yeast infections after being on SHORT term antibiotics for sinus infections in the past when I did not know of probiotics.

Now after being on multiple antibiotics for MONTHS I have not had ANY problems,

A friend of mine is on antibiotics long term for a foot infection ( he is diabetic ) and he has ALOT of stomach trouble, I tried to tell him to take the probiotics but his doctor tells him he does not need to.

I am convinced they work !!!

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massman
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IME for years MDs knew nothing about probiotics. NOTHING [Roll Eyes]

Since probiotics are not made by drug companies seems like MDs are not really interested in them.

Simple biochemistry ignored [loco]

Isn't good health about balance ?
Take them [Cool] [Cool]

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keltyl
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Agree with you totally massman.
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Lymetoo
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Ditto, massman. Most drs do NOT tell you to buy probiotics while on antibiotics. It's because they don't know any better.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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Actually, the doctor has a point but he's likely not considering time shifts. The antibiotics do cancel out probiotics IF taken at the same time. Even if taken hours apart, antibiotics in the system still cancel out most, but not all.

Probiotics are best taken at opposite times of the clock. (so to speak) from antibiotics AND antifungal herbs/supplements.

Normally, for those on short course of abx is to take during but then, just after the course, really load up.

For those on long term treatment, the best that can be done is watching the clock and taking probiotics at the opposite time.

Same with antifungal herbs, they need to be taken at times opposite or they will cancel out probiotics.

Florastor also needs to be taken "opposite the clock" - that's just the only phrase I can think of that describes the importance of timing.
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randibear
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keebler, you mean two hours apart, right?

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Keebler
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Here's what a couple NDs have told me.

Exactly opposite is how I think of it but it's really a "split down the middle" - I guess if abx are every four hours, that would have to be two hours apart. But there is still a good amount of abx in the gut then. Even residual abx will cancel out probiotics.

I'm not on abx so not familiar with the timing of all antibiotics. I don't recall having taken abx every four hours, though.

My memory with this was more like abx at 9 am, 3 pm, 9 pm. Then the probiotics would be at 6 am, noon, 6 pm and midnight (were one to be up early &/or late).

The middle point in between has the best chance. If two hours is the best one's schedule allows, if one is on a every four hours schedule for abx or antifungal herbs, then that's the best that can be done.

It may be of helpful to drink water about a half hour before probiotics to help the stomach process the abx on out of the way.

While probiotics are good for many reasons beyond helping prevent candida, they were never enough for me. Olive Leaf Extract was fabulous, though, for preventing candida. Though, OLE also needs to stay away from probiotics.

In addition to OLE, other herbs to cancel out probiotics include: garlic/allicin; goldenseal; propolis; houttuynia; coptis; berberine containing herbs and many others. GSE (grapefruit seed extract) will cancel probiotics, too.

Antifungal Rx like Nystatin, Nizoral, or Diflucan also cancel out probiotics if taken too closely together.

Adrenal herbs - or herbs to calm the nervous system - may not but each one would have to be studied to see if it shows any antimicrobial action. PubMed is a great place to read medical abstracts that explore the nature of many herbs.

If one has thrush (white/yellow) coating in the mouth, though, after a good tongue brushing, swishing with probiotics is good ANY time, and often.
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migs
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That doctor is dead wrong.

When I was using cheap probiotics or not taking enough, I used to get horrible yeast infections, cracked skin, etc...I also would get horrible bloating, diarrhea, etc...

Once I tripled my probiotics and bought good ones, I have no indigestion, no yeast infections, no stomach pains, etc...

Probiotics are necessary and remember doctors are just like everyone else...a lot of them aren't terribly smart or good at their jobs.

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massman
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Wait,,,wait... WAIT !

In the case of probiotics better quality leads to better RESULTS ?

Whooda thunk thaaaat ?

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Haley
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I have taken probitotics ever since I started this wacky treatment. I try to take them away from the abx as much as possible.

I had a test at Metametrix (stool sample). The results showed every good and bad bacteria in your system.

The ingredients in my probiotics were very high (almost too high). This tells me that they are getting into my system even with the abx.

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TerryK
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My LLMD will not prescribe abx unless probiotics are taken. These days, even the pharmacy mentions it sometimes. I think most are catching on.

Terry

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by TerryK:
My LLMD will not prescribe abx unless probiotics are taken. These days, even the pharmacy mentions it sometimes. I think most are catching on.

Wow. Progress, huh!?

My GP always tells me to take probiotics when he gives me abx for something. Next time, I'm going to ask him if he tells everyone to space them apart!?

I know that... but I always wonder what he tells others. Maybe he doesn't say it to me since he knows my history.. but makes me worry about his other patients. [Razz]

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EyeBob
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To clarify, did the doc say that they don't help to replace killed beneficial bacteria or that, ultimately, the probiotics don't effectively ward off yeast overload? There is a difference. I don't think that anyone would argue that the replacement of certain probiotics works to replace them, partially, but the question of whether they help to prevent yeast "infections" is another topic altogether. I have not done the research, but I doubt that it exists. I will only offer my LLMDs anecdotal comments. He doesn't bother recommending probiotics when he treats because he doesn't feel that they help to prevent a yeast problem. If you get it, you get it. In addition, (I can't find the link) there is some evidence that probiotics may cause a bit of angst in your stomach and affect your immune system as well.
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Lymetoo
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I know someone who never took probiotics during years of Lyme treatment. He is now facing a life-threatening case of systemic yeast.

So it's our choice on what we decide to do, I guess!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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randibear
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well all i can say is that they treated my mom for mrsa and c. diff with no probiotics.

by the time they realized how sick she was, yep, systemic yeast. it was so bad her throat was closed and the yeast was even in her lungs.

i cry because she died a horrible death, in pain and suffering.

so i'm disregarding that gastro and taking them anyway.

he said the abx KILL the probiotics and so they are ineffective. he said use florastor only.

but i ain't doing that either. i'm taking both. florastor, critical care, pb8, jarrow, and one other.

i figure more is better especially because i'm doing flagyl and amoxy three times a day.

can't hurt right?

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EyeBob
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To clarify, my LLMD treats aggressively for yeast issues, he mentioned that all (his term "all") of the Lymies that he's inherited from other practitioners that were supplimenting with probiotics (and not on anti-yeast drugs) had yeast issues. "all" I took to mean all.

interesting topic, though.

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LightAtTheEnd
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What I understand is, antibiotics kill the bacteria mostly by preventing them from multiplying.

It only kills them outright if the dose and concentration is high enough, and even then not all of them, which is why we have to be on such high doses to kill Lyme, which does not multiply very often.

Therefore the probiotics can survive and do their thing for a while, but they can't multiply and make more, so you have to keep taking them every day. Taking them more often or in higher amounts might increase their chances of survival.

If you take them too close to the antibiotics, then the concentration of antibiotic may be high enough to kill most of them directly as opposed to only a few.

If antibiotics were actually as effective as the IDSA claims--i.e., that a couple weeks of low dose doxy kills 100% of Lyme bacteria, then perhaps they would also kill all of the probiotics that easily, but we know that isn't possible.

I could be wrong about this because I do not have a science background. This is just what makes sense to me right now based on things I've read.

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Don't forget to laugh! And when you're going through hell, keep going!

Bitten 5/25/2009 in Perry County, Indiana. Diagnosed by LLMD 12/2/2009.

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