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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » My LLMD asks me to put my hand on this metal thing +

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Author Topic: My LLMD asks me to put my hand on this metal thing +
BackinStOlaf
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it is shaped like a hand and it is attached to a computer. She said it reads energy from the body and tells me what could be wrong and what herbs I can take to fix it.

I feel so stupid doing it and I don't believe in it but she does it every time.

I feel like it wastes half my appointment.

Is there anything I can say to her ?

I don't want to offend her but I am spending a lot of money on these appointments and don't want to waste 15 minutes scanning my hand [bonk]

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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glm1111
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I had a similar experience with the QXCI computer. An ND put me on it and it dx me and confirmed everything my blood work said including the TBDs.

He moved away, so I didn't have a chance to experience anything else with it. Could have it's advantages. Dr. Oz says energy medicine is the medicine of the future.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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seekhelp
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I did something like this too. i thought it was total BS. The key is to give the practicioner NOTHING regarding info. Make them prove they can predict the future.
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BackinStOlaf
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The other day she said it recommended Babesia herbs for me. Does that mean this computer knows I have Babesia? I have no symptoms of it.

I think it unnecessarily scared me..

I don't know..

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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glm1111
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Bottom line is that YOU are not comfortable with it. Have you had any blood work done for Lyme and co?

Babesia doesn't always show up in blood work. Sounds like this doctor could really help you if she uses integrative medicine to treat.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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BackinStOlaf
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My Bart and Babs test was negative but we all know that means nothing

I had a positive Lyme test - even CDC positive

I have some Bart symptoms so we are starting to treat for that to see what happens

I have no Babs symptoms

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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Marz
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I felt like you did at last appt with llmd about muscle testing the herbs and abx.

I DO believe in muscle testing but questioined when she started asking for each item whether my body liked one, two or three once a day, twice a day, etc.

I asked her how my body could know this. (I think my arm just got tired and sank periodically.)It had been pushed at least 25 times.

I think just the idea of spending money taking all these things so often made me lose my concentration.

She said they don't understand why, but the body just knows.

I believe in the science of muscle testing though.

It really kind of put me off but I do like this llmd otherwise.

Another time she used half my appt for a new method she had learned releasing pressure points on my body. I was supposed to go to someone (whose office was not convenient for me to get to to after that for further treatment) I don't have fibromyalgia so felt it was a waste of time and money.

Maybe the high tech stuff will be next with her.

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sutherngrl
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Next thing you know they'll start sticking pins in a voodoo doll for treatment.

I'm not knocking natural forms of treatment; but grabbing hold of a piece of metal as a means of diagnosis is just plain silly.

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LightAtTheEnd
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I don't buy most of this stuff either.

Except that the scientific methods they have for diagnosing and treating us are not much better.

Sometimes I think they should just flip a coin, or look in a crystal ball.

I just told my cousin about my illness the other day. She wants to know what they are learning in the research to improve this situation. I told her, not a lot so far.

--------------------
Don't forget to laugh! And when you're going through hell, keep going!

Bitten 5/25/2009 in Perry County, Indiana. Diagnosed by LLMD 12/2/2009.

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blinkie
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I'm not usually a beleiver of this kind of thing but I used this machine too. It works.

It came back highly positive for parasties and bacteria. This is before I did parasite treatment. Let me tell you, I did antiparasitics and antimalarials and made huge strides in my health.

I'm a beleiver in this machine.

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sixgoofykids
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I would suggest reading up on *how* it works because then it might make sense to you.

Energetic treatments and muscle testing was what allowed my treatment to be fine-tuned so that I could get better. Things came up that I never would have guessed, and addressing those things helped me to complete treatment and be healthy today.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sutherngrl
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The thing is you could have addressed those same issues without ever having touched a piece of metal. If you have LD, you likely need antimalarials and antiparasitics anyway. It doesn't prove anything!

I am open minded but this is silly! The ppl using this piece of metal are equivalent to being a psychic.

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BackinStOlaf
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Why do we need anti-malarials?

Are the co-infections a type of malaria?

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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kday
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I don't care if the doctor sticks pins in a voodoo doll or uses unproven energy devices as long as their treatment methods work.

I don't care if the doctor dresses like a duck as long as their treatment methods work.

I have had the most luck with a very knowledgeable ND that most doctors would discredit. She isn't even truly certified (there is no board for ND's here and anyone can call themselves one).

She has trained with other doctors from around the world (names many people on this board would recognize), she has has done lots of training in naturopathy and has been practicing for 30 years. However, she can't run lab tests, and her office and staff is poorly organized (which I don't like) and it's as kooky as it gets.

I had no faith when I saw her. I was losing hope. Perhaps I already lost it. I was miserable. I was in the E.R. a lot and kicked out of the E.R. a lot.

Her suggestions are what mattered most since they worked. I had no confidence that anything would help.

In the end, I don't care what methods are used for this and that as long as the end result is positive. If your doctor is doing things you don't believe in AND their treatment methods aren't working, I think it's time to see somebody else.

They say you NEED to have faith in the doctor/practitioner to get better, but I don't believe this anymore since I made the most progress when I had just about NONE. Since I saw dramatic improvement, my faith was restored. I now trust this unlicensed ND more than any Lyme literate doctor, or any other doctor I have seen. Many people would find this excessive, but my appointments have ran close to 2 hours long for an extremely low price. She knew how sick I was and how far I have come. Not only did it bring a smile to my face, but it brought a smile to hers. No, I am not better, and progress is slow, but that's to be expected.

Her methods pulled me out of a very dark place.

I had faith in my first LLMD, but I left him because I got much worse and lost faith as well. He wasn't a bad doctor by any means. In fact, he was very thorough, and his approach was just about as western as it gets. I spoke to people who got better with him and loved him, but I was a patient he had no idea what to do with; I even got the impression he thought I was just crazy towards the end, even though no psychiatric meds would control the way I felt. In fact, most made things even worse, sometimes sending me to the hospital yet again.

I was poisoned by an antibiotic (with long term side effects) that many take here, and I don't think he liked it or necessarily believed it when I told him that. Well, I knew and still know it was the antibiotic. I would like to believe many symptoms I am still experiencing aren't from this antibiotic (since they do also resemble TBD), but unfortunately, I think it did good damage. If it is damage from the antibiotic, I just hope it eventually heals completely.

I am doing IV antibiotics with unconventional treatments now. The unconventional treatments took me the furthest down this bumpy road.

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BackinStOlaf
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kday- what types of unconventional treatments are you doing..if you don't mind?

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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cactus
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quote:
Originally posted by BackinStOlaf:
Why do we need anti-malarials?

Are the co-infections a type of malaria?

Babesia is a cousin of malaria. It is a parasite. It does not respond to abx, but to anti-malarials.

--------------------
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - A.A. Milne

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kday
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Well, actually, we were first going to start on the standard stuff you hear about. You know, Samento, Banderol, Teasel Root, etc.

However, when she muscle tested me for colloidal silver (I know, muscle testing is discredited), I was so strong for silver she decided to forget all those other herbs for several months and try colloidal silver. I was skeptical as hell of colloidal silver. I almost didn't take it, but figured my life was so bad, I might as well try.

I started a blog, and made a post about it. The post is rather long, but I feel it is necessary to share my experience. I've posted this on this board once already.

http://lymeideas.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/microscopy-bacteria-and-colloidal-silver/

Other things were addressed such as vitamins, minerals, and liver support. The normal things. Nothing special.

She didn't want to start me on the herbs while starting IV abx because she didn't want me to herx too hard.

Another thing that have helped me TONS is a methylation protcol. It's huge for CFS people and it's all over CFS forums (such as Phoenix Rising forum), but you don't hear about it much around here. It's really powerful for detox and correcting glutathione levels, neurological issues, amongst other things. It involves taking about 3-5 supplements that you can find at the usual places that work together. I just really can't explain it here. Google "methylation protocol". In time, it can (not always) permanently correct someone who has trouble detoxing. It's very good for detoxing metals too (it helps your body do it naturally) without having to worry about redistribution and chelation.

Dr. K says you should do a KPU protocol (if you have KPU) before a methylation protocol, but I don't understand the logic. I would think that by doing methylation first, you will run into less problems with heavy metal toxicity and redistribution of metals when doing KPU. Somebody chime and tell me if I am wrong.

However, I don't think there is a one size fits all protocol when it comes to this disease, and many have to be modified to fit your needs.

Note: I am not better, but doing a lot better. I have days where I get worse and then I get more pessimistic.

[ 08-05-2010, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: kday ]

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Haley
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If you feel uncomfortable with it you should ask your doc not to use it.

I was completely skeptical about this stuff but since my brainiac doctor recommended it I thought I would try it. It prints out everything that is wrong with me. I'm still debating whether it's working or not.

Here is a link that explains how it works. This is not my doctor.

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/asyra_testing.html

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Keebler
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-
Do the herbal formulas help?

Computers look into our brain and other body parts all the time to interpret what is going on. This really is similar to an EEG or EKG by measuring electrical activity.

There are very specific points on the hands and feet that correlate to certain body systems.

I used this system for years and found great value to it. It can't read everything, of course, but I was very impressed with the three different systems similar to this that I used over time.

When I had treatments, that is the machine sending back impulses, I always felt better afterward, although I had no preconceived ideas about it and was somewhat doubting it at first. It was like electrical acupuncture, in a way.

I wish I were able to get treatments from one of those again. It was also used to measure what would go into my herbal formula for the next 3 week period. And while that particular ND was not really addressing lyme, the formulas did help for support.

And, the signals don't tell the doctor what to prescribe, that comes from their knowledge base. (Well, actually some such computers can tell a doctor what homeoopathic remedies to consider but, in the end, it's there wisdom guiding the decision.)

And, as mentioned above, it it's not your cup of tea, say so. It's your right - and responsibility - to be honest with your questions or concerns and ask for different kinds of treatment - or go elsewhere.

But, I'll tell you this, this computer actually SAVES a ton of time in the diagnostic procedure. It would take her a very long time to question you and assess what is going on where, with the machine, it tells her what systems are pushed and which ones are weak.

The NDs I saw for this kind of appointment often would ask me if this or that has been a problem and, so often, they hit the nail on the head. I couldn't have imagined how they knew as I'd not yet told them. But my hand told the computer and they knew how to interpret that information.

After a few appointments, I just stopped taking in a list of symptoms, stopped talking and let my hands do the work. It worked.

It's similar to her reading all your pulses and that would take longer. (Yes, we have more than just one pulse - we have many. It takes a very skilled ND/Acupuncturist to read that. With the computer, it goes faster.

First, you might call her office and ask to be sent an article or two explaining this system. It's based on Chinese Acupuncture points and that can be hard to conceptualize for us brought up in the Western Medicine world.

Perhaps, if you knew more about it, that would help. But, bottom line, are the herbs helping?
-

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IckyTicky
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My hubby had this test done, though not through our LLMD. I had been telling him for MONTHS that I think he has a parasite problem.
Guess what that hand thing told him? Parasites!
He was pretty dumb founded.
At our next LLMD appt. we told our Dr about it and he said that he has seen it to be at least 80% correct in most cases!
I don't know how the thing works.. but I have a feeling it works.

--------------------
IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND
IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+
Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF.
Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme.

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'Kete-tracker
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Hmmm.. This is a Lyme-Literate *M.D.* .. Yes?

Tell ya what:
Next time you're in the office, sly on over & check that "hand" out.
Does it have a USB cable attached? A power cord?
Pick it up & see if it says "Made In China"
(or Anywhere over there)

If so, in My opinion, RUN the other direction.

But if it indicates some hi-tech company here in the U.S. or Germany, say, jot it down & go do some research... and tell US all about it!
I'd Love to know the theory of operation, & just what it's "sensing".

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BackinStOlaf
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yes, this is a recommended office and the MD's trained with THE Dr. B.

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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baileypup
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You have to trust what resonates with you. The question is, are you getting better with this treatment?

I have used bioresonance testing, and believe it has its place in diagnosing, treatment protocol, and uncovering underlying issues. Ultimately, I use my own inner guidance to decide what is right for me.

The reason we seek out this type of testing is because there are NO accurate tests. I applaud your doctor for using this tool to determine what your body needs. We are being treated for a disease no one thinks exists, that often can't be proven with testing, and encompasses many underlying issues.

I want the most direct path to wellness, and if that involves putting my hand on a machine, or being muscle tested, then I'm all for it! You are the only one that knows what is best for you...

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Haley
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Kete-tracker,

The machine I use comes from Germany. If you want to know how it works you can take a look at the link I posted.

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Keebler
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-
Yes, the machines I used also came from Germany. And, for our purposes here (not getting into matters of international commerce) it matters little where the connector cables were manufactured, or even the machine. What matters is the education, training and experience of the doctor. This method has much to its credit.

Chinese Medicine is the basis for this kind of program - they learned centuries ago of the body's meridians. It's fascinating study. We can learn so much from understanding how meridians work.
-

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seekhelp
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We would all eat dog poop if it made us better. [Smile] Hmmmmm...does it?
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'Kete-tracker
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Haley,
SO... You BOUGHT 1? Or are you "using" the one at your "brainiac" doc's? I'm fascinated.
Who sells 'em & how $$? Does it 'attach' to a PC?
(Funny that doctor B's never mentioned this machine... atleast not that I've read or heard.)

I was immediately suspicious upon reading the initial line of the explanation of 'theory of operation' at that Site U gave a link to:
"Here's how it works - if a frequency from the computer encounters a molecule that shares its frequency, then ``resonance'' occurs, such that the return signal of that frequency will register as a voltage drop."

Voltage DROP? At resonation?? All the biofeedback models I'm familiar with point to a voltage buildup or "bump" (due to less absorption) when encountering a resonant "entity".

And the 2nd line:
"This signifies that the entity ``looked for'' by the specific frequency is or has been present in your body."

...or Has been...? Since when do you get a resonance when a molecule, or 'whatever', was RECENTLY there?

This guy seems to have a suffix missing off his credentialled 'title'.. B.S.
(I luv lively threads, & I'm sure I'll perk some folks up with This commentary)

Mark S. CET Sr. B.S.M.E./E.E.

P.S:
Keebler,
How is it POSSIBLE that meridians or 'internal energy flows' can be picked up, not to mention measured/ deciphered, by a "hand-shaped" (I'm assuming 2-D) metal plate? Esp. when only 1 hand is placed near/ on it? I would think strategically-placed needles, with wires attached, would work far better. [Wink]

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Haley
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Kete-tracker.

Like I said I am not totally sure I believe that this stuff works but I'm trying it just for the heck of it. I've mentioned before that my doctor also has an IV room and has many Lyme patients on IV. He also is getting a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He's looking for other alternatives to antibiotics but he is not some new age guy. He is a very bright Rheumatologist. He has not had the machine that long so we don't know how well patients are doing yet.

I can tell you that he has made some diagnoses like legionellosis because it came up on the machine and he did a blood test and the girl was off the charts for legionellosis . He said he would never have thought of testing her for this disease. she is now getting proper treatment.

I have not bought a machine, I get it done at my doctors office but if it works, I'll buy one and give free tests to all Lyme patients. The machines are not cheap, probably around $12,000. Yes, it does attach to a PC. You could probably do a search on youtube and see a demonstration.

The procedure of making the tincture is quantum physics. With my current Lyme brain the only physics I'll be understanding is how to get a paper from my in box to the other side of my desk.

Keepin it lively!

[ 08-07-2010, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Haley ]

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Pinelady
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So glad to hear this research on here. Just like heart blocks can kill in Lyme because the cells cannot carry the necessary electrolytes to conduct the energy...Fascinating.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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'Kete-tracker
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This is truely fascinating, esp. about that girl's "legionellosis" Dx, which started off as just something that "came up on the machine".
(Is that "Legionnaires Disease"?)

I guess I'll need to check a few Sites & research this some more, including websites out of 'Deutschland', no doubt. I'll report back.

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Lymeorsomething
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That type of stuff drives me crazy. They should ask you if you're interested in trying it before they use it.

Muscle testing drives me crazy too. I might as well bury a potato in my backyard and hope that cures something.

--------------------
"Whatever can go wrong will go wrong."

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Keebler
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-
The machine used measures electrical activity at certain points on the hand that correlate to electrical systems & specifics regions in the body.

This is quite similar to the machines that measure electrical activity from the brain for a EEG (with certain points correlating to certain regions &/or brain function) or from the heart for an EKG (with certain points also correlating to certain electrical pathways and function). EMG are other tests of electrical activity in the muscles.

EEGs, EKGs and EMGs are done every day by MDs everywhere.
-

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'Kete-tracker
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That does indeed sound like traditional Chinese medicine, Keebler. I'd like to know who helped develop it, and where. Still researching...

Lymeorsomething,
A "tater'll cure a scrub lawn out back.
Ya might even be able t'fry up some "chips" by next fall!

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Haley
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Dr. Reinhold Voll came up with this system. It is based on decades of research.
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Keebler
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In addition to Haley's note . . .

. . . and centuries of observation and study of acupuncture meridians, sort of explained as electrical points/pathways that correlate to body organs and systems.

Like certain sensors glued to the certain points on the scalp during an EEG that measure activity in a certain section or neuro pathway in the brain.
-

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libby333
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I have also used this machine. I regularly see a homeopatic doctor who has been using this technique for quite a while. I was skeptical at first, but it really worked!

Last time I say him, the machine said I had Lyme. I am using the herbal remedies he has given me along with the antibotics. My LLMD said this would be fine.

He has given me remedies in the past for detox purposes, and they have worked.

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tick battler
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I had a healthy skepticism when I was first exposed to electrodermal screening. But I researched it with an open mind, as I hope all would do here. Considering our predicament, do we really want to be as close minded as the mainstream medical establishment? Come on guys...think outside the box a little bit, unlike the docs that you complain about.

Here is a post I did a few months ago when I was seeing evidence that it is accurate.

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89559#000000

The key is to find a good practitioner. That can make all of the difference. They all operate the machines differently.

tickbattler

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tick battler
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Kete-tracker - just saw your question to Keebler about using a hand plate...

The machine that my practitioner uses is the EDS 2000. She has us hold a metal cylinder that is attached to a wire than goes to the machine. She then takes your other hand and places a very thin probe on it which is attached to a wire going to the machine, just like you thought it should work.

tickbattler

[ 08-09-2010, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: tick battler ]

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Lymeorsomething
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quote:
Originally posted by tick battler:
Considering our predicament, do we really want to be as close minded as the mainstream medical establishment?

It's not really about being close-minded as much as it is being comfortable. I know the self-checkouts in the supermarket work just fine but tend to prefer the traditional lanes.

So, sure, the EDS-2000, the T-2000, what have you, may do what their users purport but one would also like to have some confidence in the technology.

I know one LLMD I saw used muscle testing which I did not care for. Whether it's legit or not, this MD ultimately did not help me at all so I had to switch LLMDs.

Sometimes outside the box is outside the zipcode.

--------------------
"Whatever can go wrong will go wrong."

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Hoosiers51
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I basically agree with what Lymeorsomething said.

I have had some experiences with muscle testing where it's hard to NOT believe in it based on what the results were. So I think it can serve a purpose, and I (personally) would not put it down.

However, I think you need to do what makes you comfortable. Even when I took the things the muscle testing said would help me, I wasn't getting better.

So I think you just need to go to a doctor that you feel is helping you....and I think that's the bigger issue. And I think you need to go with your comfort level. If it were me, I'd switch doctors, because it doesn't seem like you like this doctor's approach.

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tick battler
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I guess my point is that it's worth giving something a try, even if you are skeptical. Some here just rule it out completely without doing the background research. That is a shame. If you just go in with an open mind and learn about it and try to understand it, then you might find out it works. Of course, if it doesn't work for you, then move on.

I recently tried NMT for my children and the person claimed to be able to muscle test from across the room. I gave it a few sessions and have decided it was not accurate or helpful, besides being almost impossible to believe. But my experience with EDS testing was completely different.

The other point to keep in mind is that with EDS testing, the practitioner may make all of the difference. I have heard this over and over.

tickbattler

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'Kete-tracker
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*ASYRA testing
"Energetic treatments and muscle testing"
*EDS "testing" (actually 'S' for screening)
*Dr. Reinhold Voll
*"the QXCI computer"
*"bioresonance testing"
*"if a frequency from the computer encounters a molecule that shares its frequency, then ``resonance'' occurs..."
*"The machine used measures electrical activity at certain points on the hand that correlate to electrical systems & specifics regions in the body"
*"hold a metal cylinder that is attached to a wire than goes to the machine" & "a very think probe on [your other hand] which is attached to a wire going to the machine"

Lots of info here that doesn't quite jibe.
This is why I have healthy skeptisicm... along with not hearing about this hand 'energy sensing' via my LLMD, LLND, local fellow Lymies... or even the ILADS website.

I'm not dismissing it. I just want to clear up conflicting info... as should Anyone considering purchasing, or even paying to use, a ~$12,000 diagnostic 'machine'.

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Keebler
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How much is an EEG machine? An EKG machine? Most machines used by doctors cost. 12K is likely a lot less than most.
-

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Haley
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Nothing wrong with healthy skepticism.

I think it is unlikely that an individual would purchase one of these machines for personal use.

These are usually purchased by practitioners and used as part of their business.

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tick battler
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Kete- The list you gave will jibe when you do more reading. Just like we drive different cars, there are different brands of machines that do the same or similar things. Voll is the inventor of this technique. Did you read the link I attached? There is info on him there. And "bioresonance testing" is another name for "electrodermal testing" or "electrodermal screening." Just like with many things, there a a couple of ways to describe it.

I understand the Asyra machine helps you create these drops that springshowers is talking about. I have never seen this machine but I think this is what Dr. Cowden uses now. (He is the well respected doctor the Cowden protocol is named after.) My practitioner does not create special drops through her machine, but she does give homeopathic remedies and herbs that test well against the infections in your body.

The reason you will not see this in your LLMD's office is the same reason he will probably not have a rife machine. It is not an approved medical device by FDA for the diagnosis or treatment of disease. It is apparently approved in Europe.

tickbattler

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Keebler
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A lot of medical diagnostic systems and treatments are allowed in Europe that are not here.
-

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'Kete-tracker
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Keebler,
The cost's not really the issue.
I've never seen/read conflicting info describing an EEG or EKG machine.
Also, they are both standard equipment in any hospital... & the theory of operation, & interpretation of data given, is pretty straightforward.

I think you missed my point.
How a "bio-resonance" machine actually operates- & shows anything quantitative- seems shrouded in shifting descriptive terminology that lacks standardized definitions.

I understand the concepts of physical & electrical resonance... I work with that stuff Every Day... but the idea that multiple organic molecules, of which we are all made of, respond to 3 (or 4, or 5) specific frequencies seems absurd on the surface... and subcutaneously. [Razz]

---------------------
tickbattler,
I've come up empty-handed trying to find official approval of Rife by any medical establishment authorities in Any western European country.

Lots of "claims" on 'Rife sites' but no mention on any official European medical sites, like Germany's Federal Institute For Risk Assessment (BfR):
In German- http://www.bfr.bund.de/
English version-
http://www.bfr.bund.de/cd/template/index_en

Not even a Hit when the term Rife is searched for! [confused]

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Blackstone
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In my experience, I've not seen a single practitioner using either a computerized/mechanical or "laying of hands" supposed "energy technique" that has been of any help to me in either diagnosis or treatment.

My opinion is that it is unethical to collect money for experimental therapies such as these. This is not to say that I am opposed to new treatments and new ideas, or to "energy medicine" as a whole. There are some very interesting developments in this field and some amounts of real research for frequency-related, light-related and other sorts of medicine (ie. Biophoton stuff out of Germany and Switzerland).

However, even the very best of the research in this field has not been proven effective for the treatment of patients in a controlled, repeatable, viable manner. For aspects of this therapy that are truly breakthroughs in the next generation of medicine, they need to be properly vetted so they can be absorbed into the great framework of medical technology, not stay on the fringes. To this end, I see it as unethical to bring a sick patient into your office and charge them hundreds to thousands of dollars for an unproven therapy Sadly, I see more pseudoscience gobbledygook from phony "providers" then scientific pioneers. There are ways to approach these therapies and help patients, but its always the same tired excuses.

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tick battler
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Kete - I wasn't clear - I meant that the EDS technology is not approved here but I believe it is in Europe. I have not researched this, just going on what others have told me. I do not know the regulatory status of rife machines in Europe.

To me, regulatory status does not matter at this point. If we believed our regulators such as the CDC, we would think we all have some strange immune issue called "post-lyme syndrome" or something that is not Lyme disease, since chronic Lyme does not exist according to our govt.

Blackstone - Sorry you have not had good results with EDS. What type of machine did your practitioner use? Was the practitioner lyme literate? Please provide details.

My practitioner charges $90/hour. I don't consider that an amount that would take advantage of people. We are not talking hundreds of thousands of dollars - not sure where that is coming from. I have seen it to be very accurate, as have many others whom I have spoken with.

I can't convince those who won't even try it. I'm just trying to help. That's what this board is all about - sharing what works for you so others can learn. This has been the most remarkable thing to me, so much so that I hope someday to be trained in it, and start a new career helping heal those with this nightmare.


tickbattler

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Faith6
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Yesterday I saw a Naturopath, that my llmd recommended. I was looking to find out which Rife frequencies would work best for me right now.

I was tested on an AcuScreen. The results were interesting but not surprising. It seems like I will be starting over in treatment and working on things more basic than Lyme to begin with.

I was concerned that it may have some occult religious overtones. The things he did seemed scientific. Time will tell if the info helps...

I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on medical treatments over the years, maybe a hundred thousand and still am not well. For me at this point it's a matter of continuing to figure out how to get well or giving up.

--------------------
"His faithful love endures forever." Psalm 136

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Haley
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Blackstone - I too wish there was more research on this.

I'm aware that I am trying something that may or may not have results.

The thing that makes me a bit nervous is that it could make things worse. My first experience actually seemed to worsen things so I'm nervous about continuing the treatment for bacteria.

I don't think it is right to tell patients that this is a "cure" but that it may help. The patient can then decide.

I'm with faith. I have spent so much money on medicine that it was worth it to try something new. Also, I was just completely fascinated by the technology.

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momindeep
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Ten years we(my daughter and I) have been chasing that elusive cure. Now we are seeing a LLMD who has a Naturopath that works hand in hand with him...same office. They use that machine.

I refer to them as the Dream Team. I cannot stress what a help that machine and these two doctors have been to my daughter's health and recovery.

Nothing compares, nothing comes close to how these two doctors have helped my daughter get her life back after all of this time and I would not of believed it, unless I witnessed it myself, but there is definately something positive to that machine.

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BackinStOlaf
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Hmm..maybe I should take it more seriously.

The machine recommended babesia herbs for me but I have no symptoms of babesia.

I also don't want to be needlessly scared

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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glm1111
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The babesia herbs the machine recommended may not necessarily be because you have babesia. When I was taking herbs from The Monastery of Herbs I was doing energetic testing to see which herbs I needed.


Sometimes it would come up that I needed oncogene herbs (for cancer) even tho I didn't have cancer.

It was explained to me that those were the specific herbs that I needed energetically that would attack the organism.


Don't know if that makes sense, but I decided to just trust it. Herbs can be excellent modalities for healing. Getting out of the fear could also help.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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average joe
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Wow this is a lively post. I have never seen nor heard of one of these machines but would not immediately discredit it. If I,m reading this correctly it relies on resonance. Anyone ever hear of Magnetic Resonance Imaging aka MRI? Just a thought.

--------------------
If you play at the beach, expect to get some sand in your shorts [Smile]

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randibear
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i went to a person who trained with cowden. up near the dfw airport.

she had me sit and she passed a wand type thing, i think it was glass tho, could have been metal, over my head, arms and chest. she, too, said something about energy.

then she used that foot detox bath. then she put me on a table and hooked up all these connections. she said it measured umm, mineral or something levels.

then she prescribed over 500 dollars of detox, lymph stuff, herbs and all.

finallly, she asked for me credit card and wanted to charged the same 500 every month automatically.

i said, uh no, thank you, and didn't go back.

i was not comfortable at all with this. maybe it does work, but i didn't feel better at all.

and she was wanting me to come in every couple of weeks.

that would have cost a fortune which i didn't have.

so for me, nope.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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average joe
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For that money you could buy your own machine. It's sad that some of these ppl are just tryin to get rich quick. Gives the others who are truly trying to help a bad rap.

--------------------
If you play at the beach, expect to get some sand in your shorts [Smile]

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deerose
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If it were not for a skilled electra dermal practitioner I would never have known I had chronic lyme.

Chronic already. Hospital trip. Paralyzed waist down. 2007.

Nor would all the detoxes and antiparasite work and adrenal adjustments and hormone adjustments been done. E.g. I had parasites from another country/continent and she found those I did not know I had.

I would have had to think that up and ask for a specific test, sort of knowing in advance to have ever found that. And it was nasty.

Yes I was in that country twice. Under less than ideal conditions. No symptoms yet. Nor did she know I was one of a geographical region exposed to a certain malignant pesticide...and many other things she "read".

it is based as she explains on each thing on earth having it's unique frequency. Makes total sense.

She makes a point of you not telling her at the beginning as she knows he has to prove her screening works.

Yes it is expensive over two years but my deductible was $4000 and I did not know a LLMD..never heard the term. Only knew the tests were unreliable and so the treatments. My sister went through it for years.

I have spent thousands on lyme between the hospital and alternative therapies...which all give me a portion of what I need to recover.

I used all my savings.
Slightly in debt. Debilitation has me working about halftime...no other income producer.I dropped my insurance becasue I could not afford it and got a minimal hospitalization coverage.
so i could keep going. Pay basics bills. And do this.

Yes it is an expensive and tough disease but I will join my voice to those who say if you find someone who can gain your trust and credibility and it really has value... and get started on s ome of what is needed and learn...then pick you way through.

The LLND I just found says nearly no other disease requires so much self education and autonomous choosing for your own health .

Chronic lyme is just danged expensive...don't know where the money is coming from next but it has come so far...unexpected income, gifts, borrow...I have to trust in faith.

Now the elecra dermal practioner (who has a background as head neurosurgical nurse 18 years, plus other) is learning to be lyme literate in her treatment...it is inadequate. Ignores other factors. Nutrition for one.

But even the lyme literate community is beginning to recognize her results can go beyond what even thorough diligent LL work can do. It expands--not replaces--- the "sight" of what needs to be dealt with.

Not instead of...but along with. She at this point cannot do a thing for the acute lyme and frankly would not dare.

Someday energy medicine will advance that far...dx it and zap it right out somehow..but here we are now. In diagnostics, in the hands of a skilled practioner it has pioneering promise and present help.

Consider how "woo woo woo" x rays or MRI or all of those must have seemed long ago and far away.

You will never convince me it has not saved my life...from being completely disabled and ruined...if not death.

It has also bailed me out of some very unpleasant non Lyme related maladies along the way...two toxic spider bites. yes the teeth marks and so forth. she identified two. I had not told her two. Only one. But I had two.

No not a complete diagnostic thereapy by a long shot.

Take what you need and can believe in and leave the rest.

And yes it is key to have confidence...if that is not present there is trouble. and when it wanes there is trouble...

I have had points where it waned because something would not resolve. I had to learn its limits and that was hard when you are full of hope and then scared again and desparate.

But we see that with ILADS et al.

My MD is not lyme literate and in fact would have given me a second strain case of chronic lyme this week if I had followed her directions.
Doxy 100 mg for a few weeks becasue she refuses to accept the electra dermal dx and that my symptoms are lyme.

Now the clinical dx of the LLND may persuade her...but if not. Not.

but I would not have known that had I not know I had lyme already and learned what I have since...and there is so much more.

Through here I found local support group who gae me LL names.

Yes energy therapies of some types are pioneering. Yes there are quacks and greed and incompetent.

Excuse me but get a lyme diagnosis and find ignorance and greed in standard medical practice. It is the nature of humanity not of a machine.

Do we not recount it on the forums hourly? Welcoming the lost and distraught and undertreated or not treated at all?

Can she help me right now? no. I have a second acute case and am following the ILADS with an LLND. But will continue using what I can from her and so forth.

I expect to return for a "wave physical" but right now I am focusing on the ILADS..which I believe will gain huge ground in the chronic lyme, too.

Even the LLND offered that I have been sustained well for a long time "until"...so keep it up.

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Not everything in life that can be counted counts and not every thing that counts can be counted...Albert Einstein

Posts: 208 | From Northeast | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
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Deerose:

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--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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Yes, deerose, welcome. Very well said and, oh, so accurate:

"The LLND I just found says nearly no other disease requires so much self education and autonomous choosing for your own health ."

"Consider how "woo woo woo" x rays or MRI or all of those must have seemed long ago and far away."
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Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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