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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » List of bacteria that causes a herx

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Author Topic: List of bacteria that causes a herx
cleo
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I want to be tested for some other bacteria so far I have come up with this list of bacteria t

what cause a herx reaction. Can anyone add to it?
I want to be tested again at my llmd and wanted some ideas.

Borrelia
Malaria
Syphillis
chlamydia
mycoplasma
whipples
bartonella

I know I am negative for bart (from n.carolina and dr.b) Negative for lyme(as well as coinfections) 22 times from igenex. Yes 22


I am positive for cpn and mycoplasma. Husband is sick as well as dog. I just want to make sure I


am treating the best way and not just guessing. Even though I know it is a guessing game.

ugh Every time I think I am improving I back slide with a flare.

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psano2
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Babesia?
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kimmie
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any spirochette infection can cause a herx...so I would add to that H.Pylori and Leptospirosis.

Also, with a systemic yeast infection, you can get a die off reaction as well.

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Marnie
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Herx...note histamine!!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1011750/

I've been trying to tell you (recently) there is a very very strong link to histamine and lyme as well as MANY viral proteins.

We know...tritec destroys all forms of Bb in the GI track.

Tritec is rantinidine (H2 blocker...lowers stomach acid i.e., HCL) bismuth citrate.

I think Bb likes to use the calcium activated chloride channels to trade H for Na.

Bb needs NaCl for motility.

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sk8ter
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So marnie isn't rantinidine zantac???
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Lymetoo
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On the note Marnie left... I found out the other day that wine and alcohol also contain histamine.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Marnie
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Lymetoo...interesting!

Rantinidine IS Zantac.

Remember we NEED HCL to help us digest our food so we can use the nutrients IN FOOD to make all of our proteins, enzymes, neurotransmitters...

Sooo...not too close to mealtime.

Bismuth looks to actually be the Bb destroying component.

Read carefully:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth

Here too:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8792482

We know that increasing temperature helps to increase the effectiveness of abx.

When at the next link, use the search window at the top to find bismuth:

http://www.everth.de/assets/images/Incidence_prevalence_Lyme_Disease_Germany.pdf

And carefully evaluate Flagyl...!

Look at the link to Pepto Bismol and tetracycline (chelates it) here:

http://www.hopkins-aids.edu/drug/antimicrobial_agents/full_doxycycline.html


Bismuth aggregates were attached to the cysts and, in some, the pin-shaped aggregates penetrated the cyst wall.

The bismuth aggregates also bound strongly to blebs and granules of B. burgdorferi when RBC > or = MBC. When B. burgdorferi is responsible for ***gastrointestinal symptoms***, bismuth compounds may be candidates for eradication of the bacterium from the gastrointestinal tract.

PMID: 12051564

Note swallowing bismuth does turn things (mouth, stool) BLACK...

Carbon?

Note Bi related IV DEATH:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismacine

Only the citrate form and subsalicylate forms are safe for human consumption...ORALLY.

Keep in mind while Bismuth citrate and Zantac looked to destroy Bb...first it had to be "out in the open" which it is not. Or it had to allow the opening of a channel to let it go into the infected cell.

This is for sure...we are trying to figure out which metal compounds might cure lyme...as we have done for other pathogens:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC89163/

Chemists:

http://www.mrs.org/s_mrs/bin.asp?CID=2579&DID=58701&DOC=FILE.PDF

"Based on in vitro dissociation data and in vivo animal data, bismuth subsalicylate is believed to be largely hydrolyzed in the stomach to

bismuth ***oxychloride*** and salicylic acid.

In the small intestine, nondissociated bismuth subsalicylate reacts with other anions (bicarbonate and phosphate) to form insoluble bismuth salts. In the colon, nondissociated bismuth subsalicylate and other bismuth salts react with hydrogen sulfide to produce bismuth sulfide, a highly insoluble black salt responsible for the darkening of the stools.

http://www.flexyx.com/B/Bismuth%20caplets.html

Well...Bb does look to trigger chloride channels! Allowing Bi "in"?

I'd rather send in a lot of MgCl.

Bb simply moves away from KCl.

Bismuth is curious. It is used in magic levitation tricks.

http://www.matchrockets.com/ether/diabislev.html

Et. al.

Humm...

"Two of the strongest diamagnetic materials are graphite and bismuth"

Graphite...C

Just carbon?

C8? What about EIGHT carbons?

Of course anytime I read BLUE Luminescence...(WFL blue belly)

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl801392v

led me to:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12609706

Well...Bb does trigger cell death (apotosis)in all the cells it infects.

C8H16O2? That is Caprylic acid...well it does convert to BHB and enter the cell citric acid cycle -> more ATP in the infected cell thus enabling the infected cell to "finish off" Bb?

C8 does appear to form a little "cage" and "activated charcoal" does remove toxins...

Brainstorming.

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little_olive
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Hi cleo. I'm havign trouble understanding why you're seeing an LLMD when you do not have Lyme disease?

Borrelia IS Lyme disease, isn't it? So to get tested a 23rd time might be useless?

Have you repeatedly tested negative for bartonella, like you did for Lyme?

It rarely shows up in bloodwork and is my main problem right now.

I am also positive for mycoplasma.

I'm curious, what are your symptoms?


little olive

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Keebler
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-
Marnie's detail is very good. Many things can elevate the histamine reaction and that is no small part of feeling awful.

Cleo,

Cpn treatment is not easy and whether they call it a herx or not, treatment is gruelling. Secondary Porphyria is also a big concern with Cpn treatment and elevated porphryins can be create the same symptoms as a herx.

I hope you are in contact with this site:

www.cpnhelp.org
-

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lou
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H. pylori might be worth checking, but it is not a spirochete.

I guess you know that quite a few chronic cases are seronegative.

[ 09-14-2010, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: lou ]

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