posted
Why does lyme cause TMJ? Can anyone explain the connection?
Thank you!
Posts: 87 | From NorCal | Registered: Feb 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- * The toxins are irritating to the nerve fibers.
* The neuro-toxic-excitatory state causes anxiety and muscle tension - resulting in clenched teeth and tight muscles. The excitatory NMDA nerve receptors are overly agitated.
* Lyme can cause severe depletion of both magnesium and calcuim and that causes serious muscle contractions, locking up the body's muscles in many ways.
* Etc.
* Etc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- The Importance of Magnesium to Human Nutrition
from Carol in PA -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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MichaelTampa
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posted
I don't know for sure, of course, but I expect it relates to the fact that lyme will infect tissue and joints. TMJ is a joint disorder, that is what the J stands for in TMJ.
Before I was aware of lyme for the cause of my symptoms, I got a device that some get for TMJ, to realign the jaw. This has worked for some people with Tourette's Syndrome, removing their tics, with the theory that the trigeminal nerve can be pinched when the mouth closes as a result of a misaligned jaw. The trigeminal nerve feeds into the neurological system and produces many undesirable results if it gets pinched, including uncontrolled eye-blinking, a common Tourette's symptom.
My theory is that having lyme bugs in the trigeminal nerve (or perhaps, in the TMJ, the joint, as well) causes a very weakened trigeminal nerve and TMJ such that, any little extra pinching it may get from a slightly misaligned jaw becomes too much for the system to handle.
Just my theory. Curious to hear what others think or know.
Michael
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
Yes, agree with you that lyme infects joints. Joints in jaw, fingers, shoulders, knees, hips, toes.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Thanks for the info Keebler!
Posts: 87 | From NorCal | Registered: Feb 2008
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Keebler
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- Michael has heightened my awareness with his excellent considerations. Yes, of course, the trigeminal nerve is often hit very hard with lyme --- and the joint, well, as obvious as it is, I never made that connection until now.
A couple of good "Ah-hah! " moments there.
Inflammation is another matter that is integral in all that is mentioned but it also takes it's own place at the table. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yes, a joint. And the little buggers will love it as much as your hip or knee.
But as with your knee or ankle or other joint, it's hard to not 'use' as with others.
There are things you can do to try and help it 'not hurt' as much.
I've posted them in here before....
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Lyme affects the joints and the nerves. Double whammy!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96237 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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canefan17
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Member # 22149
posted
TMJ is always one of my herx symptoms (no matter what treatment I may start)
I associate it with die-off/toxins.
Whenever I have a brain herx... I will inevitably get TMJ, swollen lymph nodes(behind head), blurred vision, and some reflux.
I've always associated this with the toxins circulating through my system (I'm assuming they are on their way out... which means being sent to the gut and passed)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Tricky Tickey
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posted
One could also be grinding their teeth while asleep. I have a mouth peice I wear nightly to protect myself from it, though the TMJ is still there.
-------------------- Early Disseminated LD- 2010. Currently doing acupuncture and yoga. Negative Igenex (IND & Pos Bands) ISSUES AFTER: Tendonitis, letter reversal, Low immune system. PREVENTION:SaltC,Iodine,Humaworm, Chiropractic. Posts: 1013 | From In a van down by the river. | Registered: Jun 2010
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Pinelady
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posted
You can research what syphilis does to the body and know borrelia can do the same given enough time.
It used to be a number one sign for syph and many people had jaw deformities, and much more that are commonly ignored today.
Because they don't want to deal with it.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
My teeth were crooked, causing a misaligned jaw. Because my occlusion was so uncomfortable, I'd grind my teeth at night.
When I got sick, it seemed the bacteria liked to hide out in this stagnant area of my system (think of a stagnant pond and what happens to it with algae). The bacteria and toxins congregating there cause a lot of pain.
I wore a splint 24/7 to realign my jaw, then I wore braces to straighten my teeth so that they didn't pull my jaw back out of alignment.
My jaw pain was gone before I even started Lyme treatment. I did have some bone damage, so I have to deal with it, but the pain and malocclusion are gone.
My ortho is currently working on tweaking my bite so I stop clenching .... I think what he's doing might be working as I don't have to wear my bite guard at night anymore, my removable retainer (like Invisalign) seems to be enough, but we will see, it's only been two days without the bite guard, I still may end up needing one.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
TMJ is a complicated thing and the most complicated joint.
I've had it for 25 years now.
For some people it's genetic, some it's from braces, others wisdom teeth removal and who knows what else. More women have it then men.
Some peoples condyles are degenerated and others not. Some people have displaced discs and other have flat non-existant discs.
Surgery helps a very few, braces helps some and others rely on splints, night guards.
Some people have their teeth all shaved and have crowns put on to fix a bad bite. This doesn't always work.
Some find relief from prolotherpy, crano-sacrel, warm compresses, massage, exercises, avoiding hard chewy foods.
Ive had therapy for 10 years now. Lyme treatment hasn't helped. It hurts more when lyme acts up. I've had prolotherapy with good results, I wear splints 24/7, I've had my jaw locked shut, had it opened by a TMJ specialist.
I've been checked for cavitations, don't have any. All my amalgams are gone. Been told braces wont' help me.
Suggested crowns but sence I'm still in pain I won't even consider it. When it gets unbearable I'll probably do another round of prolotherapy and keep up with the exercises. My condyles are not worn, but my discs are gone.
TENS unit helps a bit while on, hylauronic acid seemed to have helped when I was on it for long periods but it's pricey.
Just a few thoughts. I'm not a dentist, I just visit them alot.
-------------------- Bart Henslea 1976 Fibro/CFS/arthritis 2004 Lyme diagnosed 2007 3 1/2 years treatment with oral combos, Cowden, IV roc. BW herbs. Off all abx in 12/10. Feeling good. Posts: 647 | From NY | Registered: Dec 2007
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stymielymie
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posted
Keeblers explanation is right on. neuralgia causes the 5th and 7th cranial nerves that go through the ear canal and also near the tmj ,also causes tinnitus(ringing) lyme effects muscles and tendons. lyme patients are extremely stressed. stress cause an involuntary bruxism at night make the muscles of mastication (chewing muscles) sore and inflamed. they basically get a charlie horse like you would get in your leg. the more stress the more bruxism and the more pain in the joints. biofeedback and correctly made tmj guard can relieve the pain. the appliance must be made with the lower jaw being slid forward until it reaches the upper jaw and the it must also be open 3-5mm or about 1/4 inch. this allows the muscles to go back into equalibrium while you sleep and removes the inflammation from the joints. this is the only joint in the body the is bilateral, 2 joints connect together. the only jaw that moves is the mandible(lower jaw) and it moves in one piece with both joints on the same bone.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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Pinelady
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The spirochetes have been shown to like juicy parts and prefer cooler temperatures.
If we go into the cold the face/hands/feet are more likely to get the coldest. It makes sense.
I do believe this is why children born with Syphilis display Hutchinsons teeth and can have gross jaw abnormalities with necrosis.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
And the spirochetes like anything 'weak' in our system. Thus if you do have TMD from your bite, or grinding, etc, it will tend to make that joint more likely to hurt worse.
As TS96 stated... you can do everything in the dental realm and it will still hurt with herxing and all.
Just don't eat hard food, steaks, sticky chewy things when you know you have a jaw like this.
Also, do not lay on your side when sleeping as it pushes it and puts more pressure on it.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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Pinelady
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posted
They hate Heat---
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
My chiropractor uses a handheld unit called an arthrostim and does KST (Koren Stimulation Technique).
It's like a rat-a-tat-tat gun, sort of, that can be tapped against joints to move them back into place. He went through training on how to treat the joint.
He asks he to open my mouth, move the jaw side to side, move it back, move it forward, and then he uses the unit on a jaw joint side. It provides temporary relief.
Posts: 13127 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Remember to Smile
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posted
quote:Originally posted by MichaelTampa: Before I was aware of lyme for the cause of my symptoms, I got a device that some get for TMJ, to realign the jaw.
This has worked for some people with Tourette's Syndrome, removing their tics, with the theory that the trigeminal nerve can be pinched when the mouth closes as a result of a misaligned jaw. The trigeminal nerve feeds into the neurological system and produces many undesirable results if it gets pinched, including uncontrolled eye-blinking, a common Tourette's symptom.
My theory is that having lyme bugs in the trigeminal nerve (or perhaps, in the TMJ, the joint, as well) causes a very weakened trigeminal nerve and TMJ such that, any little extra pinching it may get from a slightly misaligned jaw becomes too much for the system to handle.
Just my theory. Curious to hear what others think or know.
Thanks for sharing that, Michael!
Tourette Syndrome (TS) is caused by LD, maybe bartonellosis or another co-infection. People with TS often exhibit OCD or ADHD behaviors, too.
For years I've known a man with TS who's been socially isolated due to vocal outbursts. I just learned last year that TS is another misdiagnosed and untreated TBD. He's very intelligent and may be psyched to learn he has a treatable infection. I'll be working on a good way to approach him with info. (I only see him a couple times/year.)
The Tourette Syndrome Association offers links to interesting research that's applicable to Lyme disease. TS gets research funding, so at least we can reap some benefits by using the data!
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