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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bionic 880. Please reply.... Full remission? Any relapses? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Bionic 880. Please reply.... Full remission? Any relapses?
Tammy N.
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I am very interested in Germany and the Bionic 880. I've read about sixgoofykids and a few other posts. Before I make this substantial financial investment, I'm still looking for more info.

If you're a success story can you please let me know?

If you have relapsed and it hasn't really worked for you, could you please let me know?

Also, can someone please PM me with the doctors name in Germany, the name of his clinic, etc. ? Is there a website explaining the whole process?

Thanks so much for your time and help.

Best, Tammy

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lululymemom
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You are wise in doing your own research into this before you jump into it. Some have had good response to this treatment but there are others who have not done as well.

I've been looking into it as well and I have found many who are stable with the treatment but still have symptoms. Others seen no improvement.

Many who have improved may no longer be on this website.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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sixgoofykids
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As you know, full remission for me, over one year now. Two years off abx.

I'm afraid most who are well don't post ..... but there are quite a few. Erica (the one in Italy), Brussels, Metallic Blue, Lymie_in_MD are a few using photons (two in remission) you might search in the forum. They've posted about photons.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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seekhelp
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To me it seems like there's a lot of hiding info on this treatment too when it doesn't work which worries me. GiGi lately has said it's not all it's cracked up to be. She used to be a big proponent of the Bionic 880. I think she now recommends AI therapy instead.
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sixgoofykids
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Here's where Brussels mentions being well. http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/95017?

NYJohn - http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/25624#000020

Lymie_in_MD - http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/95152?

Seekhelp, re GiGi, maybe you don't remember this discussion - http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/70037/14 (my post is the last one on the page) She also told a friend of mine recently that I was not well and my friend relayed the message back to me.

Who hides the info? Scott still says it's great for infection treatment. MoJoey, too, even though he's dealing with viruses, and has said as much on here. Steelbone has said that he didn't use if after Germany and that he had amalgams when he went to Germany. It seems that everyone has been open about it.

[ 10-17-2010, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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nefferdun
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Isn't it only effective against lyme and not so good at treating the co-infections?

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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17hens
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Not so.
I just emailed his office yesterday to ask about coinfections and they answered today. Here is the exchange...


Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Oktober 2010 16:41
An: Praxis Dr. W.
Betreff: Re: lyme disease

Another question. My main illness or symptoms now are from Babesia and Bartonella. Can Dr. W.'s treatment get rid of those coinfections or just Borreliosis?


Reply:

Hi,
Dr. W. treats the Co infections too.
Best wish


So whaddya know, Six has been right all along!!
[Big Grin] [woohoo] [woohoo] [Big Grin]

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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sixgoofykids
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When I went he did not treat coinfections. However, he told me how to do it when I got home .... to use a blood nosode. But as he treated more Americans, he changed a bit.

It only took three weeks to get rid of Lyme, but it took many months to get rid of babesia and bartonella. However, babs and bart weren't a big problem once the borrelia was gone. I was functioning rather normally even though I had those two infections. For a bad day, I was 70% functional, still getting up in the morning and actually getting out of bed. Most days were good days, at about 90-95%.

I actually thought my main symptoms were babesia when I went over to Germany for the treatment. Fatigue, air hunger, etc. It was the Mepron I could never stop taking. I stopped it two weeks before I left (actually, I had been on Malarone for a couple weeks at that point). I CRASHED quickly to about 45%.

In fact, when I returned I drank tonic water daily until the Bionic started working on the babesia. The little bit of quinine in the tonic was enough to help alleviate symptoms while I waited for the Bionic to do its work.

It's the viruses and parasites that people haven't had much luck with.

I have treated parasites, KPU, and done major detox in addition to the Bionic. It's not miraculous in that it does not treat everything, you have to do other work as well. If your primary issue is Lyme Disease and coinfections, it is miraculous.

Also, it makes homeopathic treatments much stronger. It's wonderful for administering homeopathics. That is what I mainly use it for now. I've been using chemtox and metox with it to try to get down my chemical load from all the pharmaceuticals I took.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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unsure445
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If this method is such a sure thing why isn't anyone in the United Sates using it?

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unsure445

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renny1985
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From what I understand it is not FDA approved...correct me if I am wrong.
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sixgoofykids
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Right, not FDA approved. It's relatively "new" so hasn't been through decades of "testing" to prove its safety. My birds' veterinarian uses a similar light and has seen miraculous results from it (we treat our ancient parakeet with it).

Plus, if you look at things like stevia vs aspartame .... stevia is all natural and cheap, nothing is wrong with it, but the FDA says it could be dangerous ..... yet aspartame, which is a patented chemical that people can make lots of money from, is considered safe when there is proof of danger.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Keebler
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-
About the FDA, they are driven by special interests. They approve some very dangerous drugs but refuse to look at things like Bionic 880 or rife (even put people in jail over rife) as it would diminish pharmaceutical profits. I do not trust the FDA with my life. Not at all.

Here are some more discussion threads about Bionic 880:
----------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=072681

Topic: Successful treatment with Bionic and Dr. W - 06 October, 2008

============================

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/70037/18

Topic: Bionic 880 thread - 13 September, 2009

======================

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=072798

Thank You, GiGi. (from someone who has just returned).

==============

http://www.medienberatung.de/xbiophoton_reg/eng/bionic_880_eng.htm

Bionic 880 - Prof. Dr. F. A. Popp

===============================

Not exactly the same, but similar in some ways. There has been some discussion of PE-1 in the threads above.

http://www.truesun.com/photonicenergeticpe1.php

and

www.photonicenergetics.com

The Photonic Energetics Model PE-1
-

[ 10-18-2010, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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lymie_in_md
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All you have to do is say your using the light therapy for acne. Which it is FDA approved.

The following is a good start in reading the state of light wave therapy:

http://www.healthknot.com/light_wave_therapy.html

The most impressive light wave machine is Ed Skilling's photon genius. A little pricey at 25k! However it is being marketed to wellness and health spas where it doesn't need FDA approval. Vitamin Water doesn't need FDA approval. So it isn't marketed as a medical device.

--------------------
Bob

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lymie_in_md
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One more comment: If they outlawed light wave devices, one could make the recommendation that every remote associated with their entertainment center - tv, dvd, ..., would also have to evaluated for safety. I just don't see that happening seeing the circuitry is the same. By outlawing it, they would have to prove how unsafe it is. To much money and effort... And I agree with Keebler, the FDA isn't to be trusted. There interest is solely focused toward business and not public interest.

We desperately need public lobbies in government and to outlaw private lobbies. You have to change the system of government toward the public good, not just throwing out all incumbents. Usually the people you bring in are worse then the ones you threw out. Only with public oversite will we eventually get an FDA more interested in public health. Until then, they are not interested at all.

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Bob

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TerryK
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At least 2 people that are mentioned in this thread as being in remission were better than most before they started treatment with bionic 880. Those who are sicker may take longer to get well or may need to add other treatments.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure how much of their going into remission can be attributed to bionic 880 alone since they were already so far along with their treatment. I've no doubt that bionic 880 has helped them based on what I've read from them over the years but how much it will help others who still have a lot of unresolved issues is unknown in my opinion.

I have been keeping an eye on the bionic 880 as an option for myself but I am far from an expert and don't know about the others who are in remission and how far along they were when they started treatment.

Terry
I'm not a doctor

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sixgoofykids
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Terry, which two? Certainly not me ... Here's what I said immediately prior to leaving -

" I have good days and bad days, but many of my symptoms have resolved. What remains is fatigue, air hunger, insomnia, fibromyalgia pain, and GI distress."

So, many symptoms were resolved (mainly cognitive with bart treatment), but those that remained were still rather severe. I spent the first two days in Germany in bed all day except for my doctor's appt.

Parasites and detox were things I addressed separately. Plus, KPU. The Bionic does have its limitations, but I do believe it can effectively treat bacteria as a lone treatment. In fact, if you throw in other treatments with it, it reduces its effectiveness.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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ahmet ozbek
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i had gone germany last year but i didn t any benefit from bionic 880 treatment(only temporary effect)
because Dr W haven t been take into consideration co infection. Dr W only treat lyme.

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sixgoofykids
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Yes, you have to continue treatment, the initial three weeks in Germany is not long enough to get rid of it all. If you don't continue, just like any other treatment, you will relapse.

When I was over there, Dr. W said the Germans who see him go back a month after the initial three weeks, and continue to get the monthly treatments. I did this for many months, but at home.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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TerryK
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six,
Yes, you are one of the 2 I was talking about.

You have always been a reliable source of information and that has not changed. Please understand that I'm not trying to impeach your experience with the bionic 880, just trying to evalate to the best of my ability.

I had recalled that you said you were 90% better before your trip to Germany and in searching just now, I see that you did say that.

You went to Germany in October 08. You wrote this in May 08

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/68801?
"Now, after 18 months of treatment, I'm about 90% and have about three days per month that I feel bad."

You also had a moldy mattress that you dealt with right before you went to Germany. You said you felt better after getting rid of the mattress than you had in years and that the air hunger was gone.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/71291?
"The relief for me was almost immediate. We thought my babesia just wasn't responding to meds ..... I haven't had my usual air hunger for two days. "

"I always post more when I feel bad. I'm too busy when I'm healthy. That's why you haven't seen much of me the past couple days .... I got rid of that stupid bed and feel GREAT now!"

I hope that explains why I felt that you were almost well when you started with the bionic 880. I suppose it's all relative. 90% plus whatever percentage you gained in Sept of 08 with the removal of your moldy bed seems pretty high for those of us who are much further down.

Terry

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sixgoofykids
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Right, those were written when I was on babesia meds. When my LLMD tried to switch me to herbs, I would decline badly. I had severe ups and downs .... I'd feel 90% having been on meds for a while, then I would crash on herbs to the point where I was in bed or on the couch all the time again. As long as I was on 4 tsp per day of Mepron, I did well (unless I was on Zith!!!).

When I got off meds for the Germany trip, I crashed to about 45% within a couple weeks. I arrived in Germany at about 45%. The post I quoted was written a couple days before I left, and like I said, I spent the first couple days in bed, except for the doctor.

Also, saying the relief was almost immediate when I got rid of the bed was premature .... that post was written after my first night off it, and all the posts on that page before my Germany trip were written within a week. The relief was immediate, then I crashed when my body started detoxing the mold. I was so sick I didn't know if I'd be well enough to make the trip to Germany. I didn't write about that apparently, but I was so panicked about how bad I felt that I emailed back and forth with GiGi about detox/binders/etc.

My LLMD put me on Diflucan and cholestyramine for it when I told him how bad I felt. The CSM made me feel so much worse I had to stop and took other binders, mostly bentonite clay.

From the time I got off my babesia meds until I went to Germany there was a huge crash, just the same as I had always had when I stopped or reduced the babesia meds. I stopped those meds one week before leaving, so that would have been Oct 4, 2008, but as written here - http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/70037/3? - I was too sick to take them when I got rid of the bed.

That was *why* I wanted to go to Germany. Twenty months of treating babesia and I had not seen any improvement unless I remained on the meds. I was afraid they would eventually stop working.

I understand your confusion. I *seldom* would say when I'd feel bad because I don't like complaining. That is why my posts on the bed/mold thread stopped Sept. 11, a month before I left for Germany.

I cannot be included in the group who was almost well .... I was in the group that did well on lots of meds, but had no end in sight of that treatment.

I left for Germany at 45% (who knows how much farther I would have crashed if I had been off meds for more than 2 weeks), I returned at 70% in the middle of my regular flare (I had been up to 90% in Germany).

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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seekhelp
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Not encouraging to hear (now new news) that all those meds couldn't get you well. Looks like I'm in for a L O N G ride with the same LLMD. [Frown]
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sixgoofykids
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TerryK, here's a post I found that mentions the 90% and how short of a time I felt that well. I stopped the Malarone and Lariam Oct 4.


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/71780#000016


"Anyway, I have had ups and downs. I was taking Zith, Mepron and other meds two months ago. I was doing horribly and was not very functional. Extreme fatigue and a lot of pain.

My LLMD switched me to Buhner herbs with Malarone and Lariam for babs. I jumped up to the 90% range and stayed there for over a month until I got rid of a moldy mattress (there's a thread on it).

Well, the detox from getting rid of the mattress has really been tough. It hit all at once about three days after getting rid of the mattress. If it were a decline, I wouldn't have crashed so quickly. I am now on meds for mold detox.

It seems that in getting rid of one of my chronic exposures that my body is going into a healing crisis, if you're familiar with that term .... basically, now that the stressor is gone, my body is cleaning up and I'm feeling the pain.

So, I have had ups and downs. The expected results is for the Lyme to be eradicated. I don't expect for my body to be able to do all the recovery/detoxification in the three weeks time, but I think I'll better be able to handle it once I return with the Lyme gone, right?"

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sixgoofykids
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And another -

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/70037/4?

I don't know what you mean by very ill patients. I am still disabled by this disease, so I am far from healthy. Yes, I have good days and I have even had days where I have a normal energy level and can be normal. I have even had extended periods like that.

More recently, whether it be the mold exposure and the detox from now being away from the mold, or whether it be from being off antibiotics for a couple months, I feel bad. I estimated myself to be about 70%, but my husband says I'm a dreamer, that it's more like 45%.

I was about 90% right up until I got rid of the mold about three weeks ago. For three days I felt 100%, then I dropped to where I am now. There was a clear relation between getting rid of the mold and my decline. I also have the reaction to cholestyramine that Dr. S mentions on www.biotoxin.info that a Lyme patient will have.

Why do I estimate 70%? Because the "only" symptoms I am having are pain and fatigue. The laundry list of symptoms is gone. I am doing significantly better. Also, I can get up and fix myself something to eat, go to the store, drive the kids somewhere, but generally speaking, when I'm home, I'm lying down. That is my preferred place to be - on the couch or in bed. I am pretty constantly in pain and on painkillers.

I have hit 98% twice during treatment and maintained it for a time ... even a couple months.

This time my decline coincided with getting rid of that mold .... there is a clear relation between the two.

I am telling this information so that all of you have an accurate picture of where I really am in my treatment. If you have questions about it, please ask.

If I see the same results as NanaDubo, I will consider this the miracle treatment.

And when I was asked for my top 5 - http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/70037/6?

Current five worst symptoms -

Fatigue - debilitating at times
Air hunger - can be severe, is almost daily
Insomnia - cannot sleep without medication (Lyrica and Lunesta), even with meds have trouble at times
Muscle aches/fibromyalgia - take Lyrica and Norco
GI distress - pain after eating, constipation/diarrhea, lack of appetite

I have had many symptoms resolve with abx treatment, but these are the ones that are left.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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m0joey
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I agree with six that the nature of the infections are the discerning factor here. Six will attest to the fact that I am much more disabled in terms of energy output, staying upright, and walking, than she and the rest of the people are that were there in Germany around the same time. This despite looking very healthy on the outside and being in my mid-20s. I lit up like a christmas tree on EAV testing for all kinds of viruses and bacteria before treatment. I definitely felt a bit better after treating all the infections, and actually had a period late last year where infections were barely coming up at all and one EAV practitioner that works with Dr. H in CA said I had the cleanest report she's ever seen. Granted all my CFIDS symptoms were still going strong and was still disabled from doing even part-time work.

In Oct I tested for XMRV and stopped treating what I knew were co-infections with the bionic. In march of this year I redid EAV testing and all the co-infections came up again. That's when I knew I was severely immunocompromised and that without fixing this root issue, I could treat the co-infections all I want and I wouldn't get better.

So takeaway: the bionic manages infections better than anything I've ever seen or heard of as long as you can get the appropriate nosodes, but just because you've cleared all the infections you can dream up doesn't mean you'll recover because there's simply too much out there that we don't know

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sixgoofykids
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Yes, mOjoey was in bad shape when I met him there. [Frown]

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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TerryK
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Thanks for explaining six. Now that you mention it, I do remember PM'ing you with links about mold detox. Didn't know you eventually declined so much but the sudden mobilization of mold toxins alone (if that is what was happening) could have been responsible for the way you were feeling.

Bentonite clay is used for mold detox but in my experience it takes a long time to detox using it instead of cholestyramine.

I don't know the time line of everything you went through but it is entirely possible that your flare was due to biotoxins (from mold) and the fact that your immune system was coming back on-line and you were kicking some infections out. Mold certainly depresses my immune system and I think that is typical.

I would have expected you to go back to a high level of functioning in time once the mold issue was taken care of, the toxins that were releasing from tissues were gone and the immune system was back on-line and done kicking out infections that were resistant to treatment previously.

I guess I'm still not clear as to exactly what made you beter, mold remediation/detox etc. or bionic 880 or the combination but based on my own experience, I've no doubt that some of your recovery is related to the mold remediation.

edited to add:
I was sick as a dog for over a month due to being treated for mold with NAET. It woke my immune system and we had what we think was a massive die-off. It took a long time to deal with even though I was taking what I think is currently the most effective treatment for it (cholestyramine and a prescription (actos) which helps deal with the increased cytokines, TNF and MMP9.)

Terry
I'm not a doctor

[ 10-18-2010, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: TerryK ]

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When I got to Germany, Dr. W's equipment showed a very heavy Lyme exposure. I could tell he was surprised, then he solemnly said I had had Lyme at least ten years.


quote:
I would have expected you to go back to a high level of functioning in time once the mold issue was taken care of
But I had only been at a high level of functioning for about a month!! My health was very volatile ... huge ups and downs for two years. After Germany, it was very stable and I consistently got better.

I agree that crash was mold .... and no doubt that getting rid of it helped (it tested as being bathroom mold), as did parasite treatment. And KPU can't be discounted either.

It was clearly the Bionic that got rid of the infection. I documented it all in my blog ... how I felt before treatments and how I felt after, etc. Within one week in Germany I felt like the "lead suit" had been taken off. I went to the pharmacy when I got back and the pharmacist, who knew me well, was AMAZED at how different I looked. The Bionic was a much, much bigger piece of the puzzle for me than the bed.

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quote:
Originally posted by TerryK:
[QB]
Bentonite clay is used for mold detox but in my experience it takes a long time to detox using it instead of cholestyramine.

I just used a little bentonite, then went to Germany and never did any more mold detox.


quote:
edited to add:
I was sick as a dog for over a month due to being treated for mold with NAET. It woke my immune system and we had what we think was a massive die-off. It took a long time to deal with even though I was taking what I think is currently the most effective treatment for it (cholestyramine and a prescription (actos) which helps deal with the increased cytokines, TNF and MMP9.)

It was about a month from the time I got rid of the bed until I went to Germany. I asked for Actos, but because of how thin I was, my LLMD wouldn't prescribe it for me. I couldn't handle the increased cytokines from the csm.

It was clearly the Bionic, though, that got my immune system back on line. There is no doubt in anyone's mind of people who know me in person and saw it. It was an AMAZING difference. The order of importance was 1) Bionic 2) KPU 3) parasites 4) mold

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TerryK
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Interesting information six.

You wrote:
But I had only been at a high level of functioning for about a month!! My health was very volatile ... huge ups and downs for two years.

I didn't know that. Seemed like you were one of the few on the site who was consistently doing well. I guess compared to many of us, that may not be saying much. LOL

I remember you saying that your lyme relapse coincided with the mold exposure so I assumed getting rid of the exposure was relatively important in your recovery.

I don't understand how you could suddenly feel better if you were full of biotoxins (and given your response to cholestyramine it seems that you were), unless the bionic 880 disintegrates the biotoxins, allowing the body to remove them without stirring up cytokines etc..

It would be more than fantastic if the bionic 880 were the answer for those of us who have the genetic problem that makes it difficult to remove biotoxins! Everyone in my family seems to have the problem. Do you know of any discussions or information regarding bionic 880 and biotoxins?

Thanks for taking the time to explain your history in detail as it applies to the bionic 880 treatment.

Terry

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sixgoofykids
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Terry, yes, that is strange that I felt better without addressing the mold adequately. And I agree that it was relatively important. I still have shower mold in my bathroom off my bedroom ... that is not as close as a bed, but I still have some mold exposure. In ART testing that does not show as a stressor, so I am having a more "normal" response to it.

I really didn't think the borrelia itself was as singularly important as it seemed to be once I had the German treatment.

I did have detox IV's over there. Those IV's had zinc, solidago, and other minerals and homeopathics in them. I often wonder if that dose of IV zinc helped detox much like KPU. On the other hand at home I was using things like parsley, burbur and coffee enemas when I'd use the photon treatment, so I no longer had that. I didn't add KPU until April, I had returned in November.

I don't know of any such discussion ... there aren't really too many discussions on the Bionic 880 at all.

I've always been affected by people who come on and say they've relapsed .... so when I'd feel good, I'd say so, but when I'd crash again, you'd have to pay attention to see that I wasn't feeling good, ie the comment that I switched to herbs and malarone/Lariam and felt 90% for a month. That implies I felt bad before that, but doesn't address how bad.

If I were consistently maintaining that level, I most likely wouldn't have spent the money to go. [Smile]

I was tired of being in a limbo of sorts. I'd feel good, almost normal (normal for me since I had Lyme for so long, I found out after Germany what I *thought* normal felt like and what it *really* feels like are actually two different things), then I'd feel bad for a couple months, then good again. I couldn't become involved in anything when I felt good because I never knew when I'd feel bad again, so I was just as bored, maybe even more so, on my good days.

I remember my husband's goal for my Germany trip was for me to be able to consistently do the grocery shopping and cook dinner, anything above that was a bonus.

I went back and read Oct 2008 and Nov 2008 in my blog. Very interesting stuff. I had forgotten much of it.

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Tammy N.
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I'm trying to weigh out my next step. I am very interested in the Bionic treatment. But I don't think I could handle the disappointment if it didn't work for me. (I think it will, but it would be so nice to be SURE.) Plus, of course the cost. Both my husband and I have Lyme and cos. So the cost would be times 2.

My main complaint is buzzing/tingling in feet, legs, hands, etc. (I'm guessing that's more bart). I also have fatigue, muscle aches, minor joint pain, etc. etc. etc.. Oh and don't forget the neck.....ugh.

In the past, before proper diagnosis, I had "chronic fatigue" from Epstein Barr. Also has major issues with Coxsackie and Parvo.

I'm just wondering if lots of my issues are also virus related. Then Bionic wouldn't work, right?

But then again I'm thinking if I get rid of the Lyme (thru Bionic) then my immune system can finally start working properly, and can then get rid of the other pathogens bringing me down.

I'm wondering if Dr. K is the better place for me at this point???? But I feel very pulled to Germany. My mind goes in circles trying to figure this out. Wish I just KNEW which way to go.

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Since we all have a different onion to peel so to speak, I feel strongly that you need to go with your instinct. I felt pulled to Germany. The more I read, the more I thought it was right for me.

When I got home, my body would crave the photons much like it craves food.

Dr. K is also very good. He is very comprehensive.

I say, do the research, then go with where you're being pulled. Your body will tell you what it needs.

I believe the trip including the doctor was under $5k. That's only a little more than double what I was paying for two trips to my LLMD since I had to fly there as well, and for that money I had three weeks in Europe!!! You don't have to commit to buying the Bionic until you know it's working for you. I decided when I was in Germany whether or not to buy it.

My daughter also had Lyme and co, but wasn't as sick as I was. She was in "remission" after abx treatment. I treated her after I got home. She responded well to it and liked the treatment. She knew when she no longer needed it.

Another interesting side story. Two years ago we took another daughter's parakeet to the vet and it had liver problems. We gave it the milk thistle the vet prescribed, and treated it with the photons over the past two years. Recently it started growing a long beak again (the sign of liver problems) and I asked the vet for more milk thistle. They couldn't believe that bird was still alive!! Its beak is short again. (Terry, maybe this addresses your biotoxin question??).

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lymie_in_md
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I believe the problem with straight bionic treatment based on Dr. W. methods, they are still missing some things. KPU protocol is very big in removing the disease.

My list items for simultaneous treatment:

> rife
> PE1 or bionic 880
> KPU
> Diet --> absolutely no sugar for about two months, but you can have veggies with natural sugar --> beets with sweet potatoes is great for rebuilding organs and detoxifying them
> coffee enemas
> liver flush
> Lots of vitamin K2/D/A
> immune stimulating herbs
> Poke root tincture to stimulate lymphatics ( I made my own)
> lots of fiber
> allergy/autoimmune issues (i'll post a link below for something I found on allergies)
> Exercise

The protocol should surround timeline based on 1 day of treatment treatment and 2 to 3 days detox.

I've been well for awhile, although I'm now dealing with either a bad cold or the flu right now so I'll say I'm 70% today. lol When I started with the PE1, I was able to work, but if I wasn't as valuable to the organization I was with I would have been let go. The let me work at 50 to 60% competence. I'm now at 100%, but back then I could say I was competent, but during the day I would suffer through fatigue and touching the keyboard was difficult, feelings of carpal tunnel. I could drive and do some physical activities I would have to rest for afterwards.

A lots changed since then now that I'm better. Hopefully by saying you can get better gives hope to those who haven't.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/r/24114031/detail.html

--------------------
Bob

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nefferdun
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Six, Why not recommend that we just buy the machine you brought back with you? If it worked to cure your bartonella why not just use it instead of traveling all the way to Germany?

I have spent so much money on cures. It is one thing to do it hundreds/thousands of dollars at a time but most of us would be devastated to spend everything we have on something that does not work. Where would we go from there?

So for every success story, how many have failed? I don't think we will ever know.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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lymie_in_md
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nefferdun -- If money is an issue, buy a PE1, its only about 1200 dollars and much cheaper then the bionic and just as effective imo.

--------------------
Bob

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sixgoofykids
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I thought the IV treatments were important, too. The treatment was very tough and I can't imagine going through it as quickly as we did without the detox IV's.

I do often recommend the PE1 in my posts. I have never even seen a PE1 but know some have used it successfully. But here I was being asked about my experience in Germany.

Btw, you can't buy the machine unless you go to Germany, they can't ship it here due to the FDA.

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quote:
Originally posted by nefferdun:

So for every success story, how many have failed? I don't think we will ever know.

The same question could be asked about antibiotics. And I find it extremely bothersome that my LLMD has said in a talk that 99.9% of people relapse. That is very discouraging.

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My only disagreement with Bob's list is rife and immune stimulating herbs.

Rife - I don't think it's a good idea to be killing bacteria and stimulating your immune system to kill it at the same time. I would let the body do what it can at the rate it can do it. Dr. W said no killing herbs to be used at the same time as photon treatment. I see rife falling into that category.

I never could take and still cannot take immune stimulating herbs. Many of us have an over-active immune system. Maybe that would work for some, but it wouldn't for others.

All the other are good points, and the only ones I didn't use are vitamin K and poke root. That being said, I happen to eat foods high in vitamin K ... again, was just listening to my body.

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17hens
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Thank you, Six, for being so willing to talk about your experience with us.

Sometimes it sounds as if you must defend yourself/experience. I'm sorry if you do feel that way. Shame on any of us that makes you feel that way.

I appreciate your willingness to share and continue discussion. This thread is really opening some eyes and maybe even spreading hope.

It's about time we have a thread on lymenet about the Bionic 880 that includes such detail from first hand experience! It's great!

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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Thanks, 17hens, and I do feel that way just as anyone does who is questioned on whether or not they are/were sick. That's one of our big fights with Lyme, proving we are sick.

Yet, I feel like if the question is out there, many might have it, and it's important to address so people can see what benefit I have had. If you read Oct. 2008 and Nov. 2008 in my blog, you can see the benefit I had with it.

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seekhelp
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He seriously said that? Even with his powerful, aggressive protocols. OMG. If that's his perception, time to pack up my bags. How can he treat patients with a conscience if that's the outcome knowing how many thousands it costs? Seems unfair. [Frown] This is coming from the best LLMD in the WORLD. Scary.

If the Bionic is so good, why does GiGi adamently oppose it and proclaim it's mass dangers?


quote:
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
quote:
Originally posted by nefferdun:

So for every success story, how many have failed? I don't think we will ever know.

The same question could be asked about antibiotics. And I find it extremely bothersome that my LLMD has said in a talk that 99.9% of people relapse. That is very discouraging.

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:
He seriously said that? Even with his powerful, aggressive protocols. OMG. If that's his perception, time to pack up my bags. How can he treat patients with a conscience if that's the outcome knowing how many thousands it costs? Seems unfair. [Frown] This is coming from the best LLMD in the WORLD. Scary.

Yes, I wish I had bookmarked the video, it was on a youtube of a talk he gave that I watched. THAT is his reason for trying other things to get people to a full remission. THAT is why he tries switching over to herbs etc. He IS trying to come up with ways to beat that outcome.

He's not treating without a conscience .... he's looking for other ways. In an appt he told me the idea is to beat the bug load down with heavy duty abx, then to try to bring the immune system back up to fight it the rest of the way.

So, he's working on it. But it is scary to think no one really has a definitive answer on what works.

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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:


If the Bionic is so good, why does GiGi adamently oppose it and proclaim it's mass dangers?

I don't want to rehash this .... here's the link to this discussion as I gave it to you above

quote:
Seekhelp, re GiGi, maybe you don't remember this discussion - http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/70037/14 (my post is the last one on the page) She also told a friend of mine recently that I was not well and my friend relayed the message back to me.


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minerva
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thanks for sharing the info on the bionic. i am looking at the possiblity of trying this in my future... body is just not ready for that step yet.

what is the cost for the machine itself?

i have to say we need to stop looking for the ONE thing that is going to save us. we are all in very different stages and have different combos of critters, virus etc. to deal with. our bodies have varied strengths and weakness, that takes time unraveling.

i appreciate six talking and sharing about her ups and downs gains and losses, its what most of us are living with...its honest and i am glad that she has made progress. i hope to hear it continues.

saying anything is THE magic wand for everyone and discounting other treatments is dangerous and unfair. we should be sharing not telling.

while i struggle with what to do and what i can afford i do know its a long marathon not a sprint. i am grateful for the options and the experiences.

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kidsgotlyme
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Thank you so much Six for all that you do for this site and the lyme community.

My husband and I are seriously considering this treatment for our daughter in light of everything I have read. Your blogspot was great!

--------------------
symptoms since 1993 that I can remember. 9/2018 diagnosed with Borellia, Babesia Duncani, and Bartonella Hensalae thru DNA Connections.

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lymie_in_md
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I believe if you go to Germany to do the treatment it's about 6k and 10k for a bionic 880. It is why I chose to spend 1200 for a PE1 and do self treatment, you don't really need to spend 16k for treatment. You can do it yourself.

As far as light treatment, you have to keep in mind it is for the long term. Two areas of the treatment protocol, the light is used expect a detox reaction, you support detoxification for a few days, then embark on light therapy again. When you do your first light therapy start slow, 30 seconds on each chakra location. Build up slowly to 10 minutes on each chakra. This is determined by how well your detoxifying. A friend of mine got her own unit and is up to 6 minutes and is back working.

One thing I forgot on my list: A good rebounder to move lymph.

Thinking back the immune stimulating herbs would be better started when you get to 5 to 6 minutes per chakra location without getting after detox reaction.

All we need is someone to give it a shot like a few of us who have done light therapy.

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Bob

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m0joey
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As someone who did invest in a trip to Germany and the machine, in retrospect I would've get the PE1 as well. Whether the Bionic is a better machine isn't really the point: it's certainly not 9 times better than the PE1, and Bob & others have shown that it does what it's supposed to do.

The treatment is quite different and the PE1 has a lot more settings, so it does require learning the ropes from someone like Bob, Selma, or Sheryl.

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feelbetter
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Is Bionic treatment =photons treatment?
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lymie_in_md
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Yes bionic 880 is a photonic treatment. The same kind of treatment use for ecsema, rossea, or other skin condition with pretty good success.

photon therapy has to do with the ability of the light source to penetrate the dermal layer and get into the blood. But it may not even need to penetrate the dermal layer, it might only need to envigorate the energy surrounding the body. No one knows for sure.

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seekhelp
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But in Germany, you can get the IV treatment from Dr. W that cured SixGoofyKids. You can't get that with the PE1.
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m0joey
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Since seekhelp enjoys being facetious: I'm sure I would've been cured if I insisted on eating only fresh german bratbursts. I told my mother she didn't have to cook for me, and she thought I was just being nice!
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Tammy N.
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Maybe a good happy medium would be to go to Germany for the full treatment (w/ IVs, etc.), then to buy the PE1 so you can continue treatment once home. Thoughts?
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lymie_in_md
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Seek -- I'm guessing you feel the IV treatment is more important and light treatment is unessential. You are so wrong!!! But, you could go to Mexico for the IV treatment for a lot less, I'm sure. Why don't you go there, if you are so confident it was the IV treatment that cured Six.

Seek -- I went on the wild side and did the treatment myself. You know what, I didn't have IV treatment anytime in my life, and also got just as well as Six. It cost me 1200 dollars and some deseret nosodes. And I still have the equipment, it was a one time cost, not like ABX or other consumables. I just don't like to spend money toward big pharma.

As far as Gigi being adamantly opposed -- I think she's wrong, just my opinion.

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Bob

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m0joey
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My respect for gigi aside, no one person can monopolize evaluation on any therapy. To suggest that her becoming opposed to the therapy means that it's scam or somehow perilous is to ignore the positive feedback the rest of us have given on the therapy which is almost universally positive. If it weren't for the bionic, I don't think we would've had near the # of people trying the PE1 and reporting back on it. Scott, six, myself, and others were early adopters. The early adopters always pay more and make more mistakes, regardless of field. For being part of the first few groups to try this therapy, we all came out pretty much unscathed. I've spent a ton of money on several other therapies that haven't panned out, so overall the investment has been solid even if, like i said, it could've been better with 20/20 hindsight.

To do this therapy willy-nilly is dangerous, but so is randomly taking antivirals or antibiotics. Every treatment must be customized--the more precise usually the less side effects.

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springshowers
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'nefferdun -- If money is an issue, buy a PE1, its only about 1200 dollars and much cheaper then the bionic and just as effective imo.'

Hi Bob
THanks for the info. SO you do think the PEI is as effective.

Can I ask if you ever have tried rife?

Thanks

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TerryK
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six wrote:

Thanks, 17hens, and I do feel that way just as anyone does who is questioned on whether or not they are/were sick.

Six - are you thinking I was questioning whether you were sick?

Honestly, I didn't mean to start a dust up. I was just putting forth my impression based on what I had read. I wasn't wrong about what I had read but just didn't have the whole story which was graciously provided.

I'm just trying to be as analytical as possible in choosing treatments because I don't have a ton of money.

17hens- I'm not sure what you are referring to but in my opinion our very lives are at stake here so it is important to be able to respectfully ask questions, even if they are uncomfortable at times.

Terry

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hiker53
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I have done the bionic treatment and feel it is very effective. While I am still working on getting rid of some heavy metals etc and thus not all symptoms are gone I am very much improved.

When I got back from Germany I did use it to totally wipe out my bartonella, too.

Hiker53

--------------------
Hiker53

"God is light. In Him there is no
darkness." 1John 1:5

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Tammy N.
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Terry, may I suggest.... please don't take it personally... Just as Six could have, but didn't. No harm was intended. I think you asked good questions that Six clarified. It's all good for us to learn this way. No hard feelings. Just sharing so we can all understand better. I'm happy for the clarification.
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seekhelp
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Wow, I had no idea. There's a meat market right down the road. [Smile] Thanks!

quote:
Originally posted by m0joey:
Since seekhelp enjoys being facetious: I'm sure I would've been cured if I insisted on eating only fresh german bratbursts. I told my mother she didn't have to cook for me, and she thought I was just being nice!


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seekhelp
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I honestly do not have a solid opinion either way. I take all I read on Lymenet with a grain of salt. Why? Because I can't see anyone here, know if they are ill, and view their improvement to make assessments.

Does that mean everyone lies? NO. But, you have to be aware and consider all possibilities before shelling out more $$$$ for the next great thing.

What does astound me is the number of posters here with such absolute confidence in exactly the cause of their sickness at a precise moment in time. It seems so unlikely to me. If the greatest LLMDs in the world can't pinpoint it, how can patients?

I do believe the light therapy has merit. I am interested in trying it. For a $1,200 investment, it seems very reasonable to try the PE-1 providing I know what to do with it.

I don't believe antibiotics are the answer. I do think LLMDs overstate their success rates ridiculously to gain credibility knowing there's no verification. We're left with little to no choice though as there are no alternatives. [Frown]

In regards to one poster having the answers, I say this because when GiGI left temporarily, there was an outcry to have her return by endless people here. Her knowledge must be top-notch here to provoke that level of response. I have to believe many are helped greatly. I always follow the AI thread to see if people are really benefiting. Also, she has a connection to the greatest doctor on the planet when it comes to natural medicine.

quote:
Originally posted by lymie_in_md:
Seek -- I'm guessing you feel the IV treatment is more important and light treatment is unessential. You are so wrong!!! But, you could go to Mexico for the IV treatment for a lot less, I'm sure. Why don't you go there, if you are so confident it was the IV treatment that cured Six.

Seek -- I went on the wild side and did the treatment myself. You know what, I didn't have IV treatment anytime in my life, and also got just as well as Six. It cost me 1200 dollars and some deseret nosodes. And I still have the equipment, it was a one time cost, not like ABX or other consumables. I just don't like to spend money toward big pharma.

As far as Gigi being adamantly opposed -- I think she's wrong, just my opinion.


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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by Tammy N.:
Maybe a good happy medium would be to go to Germany for the full treatment (w/ IVs, etc.), then to buy the PE1 so you can continue treatment once home. Thoughts?

I think this is a good idea. I also think mOjoey is right that those who go first can expect to spend more. I didn't care. I was already spending a fortune. I can't honestly say what I'd do at this point as far as PE1 or Bionic. I believe conversation about the PE1 had started before I left but I bought the Bionic because I didn't want to have to figure it out.

The detox IV's helped me DETOX. They were NOT what cured me!!

TerryK, I knew you were asking with good intentions, so I answered. But, I have had MANY accuse me of the same thing with bad intentions, so I do feel somewhat like I'm justifying myself because of the history, not you. I just want people to have the real information on what really happened with all of us who went so they can make the decision on whether it's the treatment for them.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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anthropisces
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quote:
Originally posted by 17hens:
Thank you, Six, for being so willing to talk about your experience with us.

Sometimes it sounds as if you must defend yourself/experience. I'm sorry if you do feel that way. Shame on any of us that makes you feel that way.

Therapies are not simply being discussed, but recommended. Six states at one point that she recommends something, and writes in a way that might lead some to consider her an expert. Given that, I think at the very least a critical look at all aspects of what is being reccomended is warranted.

Where is the balance here? New people of varying levels of sophistication will visit this site and get what...a reccomendation? A recommendation is somethong a doctor gives. The wrong impression is being given.

I questioned Rife in another thread and was attacked by one of its advocates who said "you can't even spell it right" (I had spelled it Riffe). In that thread I expressed doubt to a mother considering the treatment for a child.

This thread was started by someone who asked "who has relapsed on Bionic?"

Where is that discussion? Where is the discussion on doubt related to a technology which should be questioned? We are talking about people's lives but if I step out of line on Rife or Bionic I am attacked.

My internet searches lead me to believe that both Rife and Bionic are snake oil. Maybe not though. Maybe cures are happening. The star struck manner that this community exhibits with respect to certain individuals and technologies is disturbing and can only provide ammunition to those who would like to put lyme disease treatment into tbe hands of GPs and insurance companies.

When the attack starts, please dont criticize my spelling too much, I typed this on my Iphone.

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Tammy N.
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Anthropisces - why would you expect attacks? Unless that is what you were going for??

I think it is best when we have meaningful discussion.... and healthy skepticism is part of it. I think it is also best to try not to be intentionally inflammatory.

If you have any experience with the original question, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

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sixgoofykids
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I think you're going too much into semantics. The only place I use the word "recommend" is when I said I often "recommend" the PE1. I think everyone else but you has taken that statement in context.

I merely "recommend" one machine over another. I don't say anything about recommending one *treatment* over another as a *doctor* would.

As far as why someone who has relapsed on the Bionic hasn't answered this thread is because NO ONE HAS! Those of us who did get better using photons stayed better.

And, finally, as for the snake oil comments. Sorry you think those of us who say it helped are liars. Not my problem. And if you continue to antagonize in this thread, I will remove posts.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Tammy N.
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Six - if I may suggest..... perhaps don't reply to anthropisces above. We all know you have nothing but the best intentions and are speaking about what has been true for you. We know you are not giving medical advice. You are just saying what you would do (or have done) in a given situation.

There is a difference between playing devil's advocate, and provoking an inflammatory response. You can tell when someone is coming from a kind, helpful place, and when they are not. Your time is way too precious to go on the defensive from an angry post.

Anthropisces - It's not what you are saying, it's how you are saying it. You are free to do and say as you feel. I just think it would be more helpful to be a little softer. I think that is how you will get the answers you are seeking, rather than the defensive responses that are likely. Please don't take me wrong. My intention is to only have comfortable, helpful discussion.

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m0joey
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If anything, don't you think people that relapsed would be more likely to post since sick people stay on forums and healthy people often leave? It's very telling when you have multiple people respond on a relatively obscure therapy and all of them have positive things to say, even when some like myself didn't gain nearly as much on it as others.
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anthropisces
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So would I Terry. I want to see if this thread produces any results related to the original question, because althou grandly skeptical, I am hopeful, like so many, that something is available which may change my life for the better.

The advocates of this technology have a thread with about 3000 posts. Some felt it necessary to carry that advocacy over to this thread.

The question originally posed is of great interest to me and perhaps many others. But it is gone, turned into a place for the advocates to comment.

I would lime to see the moderators delete any posts from this thread, including mine, that dont speak to the original question. Id like to see the moderators maintain it and keep it that way, for balance. We need that balance so people can sort through it all and make a decision.

This is an important question that was originally asked. It is vital for me, because even though I think its snake oil I might change my mind. Trust me, I want a cure and am nearly desperate for one. But advocacy and recommendation are only valuable when balanced with alternate views. I dont have an alternate view, with Bionic, or Rife because, as you stated i have no experience.

I need to hear from people who bionic did not work for just as I need to hear from those whose LLMD treatment with abx failed. It allows me to make decisios.

I do not wish to alienate any of you. It is likely that everyone in this thread has helped me in some way. But I am a skeptic. I once again ask the moderators to delete all posts in this threaf that are not from individuals who relapsed on
Bionic 880.

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nefferdun
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Actually allowing all views to emerge helps clarify the validity of our beliefs. It makes people real and their intentions become more clear. For all we know there could be people planted on these sites to promote the healing properties of herbal protocols and devices. You just never know.

And there can be honest people with good intentions that are just living in delusions wanting to be well when they aren't. I have been there and relapsed twice. Of course we are suspicious. We are afraid to believe- even ourselves and our own perceptions can be skewed.

So we have to question. I lean toward trying the machine when the abx fails completely. That won't be much longer.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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tick battler
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anthro - you claim to be providing "balance" with your own opinions which are not based on personal experience or thorough research. The best part about Lymenet is that we can hear personal experiences of others. It is pretty clear that we are not doctors.

Just to clarify, when you typed "riffe" in the other thread, it was not a typo as you imply above since you had spelled it that way several times. You even admitted you were "bashing riffe" merely because the thread was too popular and it smelled like snake oil to you. I don't see how this provides balance to the thread.

I am glad to see, however, that you have become curious enough about it to look into it further and perhaps do some testing on it. We do want to have your opinion once you have done this testing. That would be helpful.

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lymie_in_md
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I easily can answer the question on the topic, I'm well working at 100% when I don't have the flu like today. And I'm enjoying life, though I had some set backs here and there many of which were associated to thyroid.

Either the bionic or the PE1 will take you some distance but there are other things you have to do as well. If you don't, you might not get well. So how you go about it is very important. For instance, if you don't have the IV you might not want to do 5 minutes to start on each chakra. I think it is far better to start either 30 seconds and 1 minute.

My reasoning: detoxification, you don't want to send things plunging out of the body too fast.

What does light therapy do, detoxification and cellular health. If there is junk in the cell or virus or the cell isn't that healthy, cells don't have the energy to recycle call apaptosis. (google harry whelan or Janis eells --its a start on nasa's use of infrared healing) The cell doesn't have the ability to defend itself. It has been uncovered that light energizes cells mostly in the form of sunlight. So what is the difference between sunlight and saunas and a gool 'ol pe1. Simple the PE1 or Bionic chose specific light frequencies. I think the PE1 is supperior in this case the builders of the bionic are now choosing more frequencies in there next unit.

Validation: google light therapy and autism or light therapy and rosacea. There are many scientific studies using LEDs which are non-coherent lasers. If you want to dig deeper, google professor fritz popp. An amazing individual and an individual who can give you the science for it.

I've never used rife, I've used zappers -- not quite the same though although it is frequency generator). It is my opinion that a combination of rife and light therapy would work together. Both are electromagnetic frequencies, one is for pathogen destruction the other is a cellular revitalizer. Sounds like a good combination to me.

--------------------
Bob

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tick battler
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I just heard from an acquaintance with lyme who started getting UV light treatments for lyme from this new "sophisticated" machine in her doctor's office. Does this in any way relate to the PE-1 or Bionic? How would this differ?

I would like to know b/c I'm taking my 6 year old son to this doctor in November (been on a wait list for 8 months!)

Thanks,

tickbattler

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sixgoofykids
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** moderator's note - some off-topic comments were removed, (over half of which were mine). To remind everyone of the topic, the original poster was asking if anyone has reached remission OR if there are any relapses from treatment with the Bionic 880. Thanks. **

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sixgoofykids
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Tick battler, the Bionic and PE1 are both infrared light, not UV, so the treatment would be different.

Our bodies make vitamin D and who knows what else from sun exposure, specifically to UV light. But I don't know what that treatment would be.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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bigdreams87
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where can you get this PE 1?
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lymie_in_md
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However UV is a great combination treatment with the bionic. UV like rife and abx are pathogen killers. UV kill pathogens, just look at any water treatment or air purifiers they all are using UV light. The PE1 is a cell rejuvenator.

For those who doubt light therapy, why not doubt UV light. How can UV light kill bacteria?

--------------------
Bob

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