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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » What to do when Advantix and Frontline Plus don't work

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Author Topic: What to do when Advantix and Frontline Plus don't work
Geneal
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Good morning all.

Sat on the couch this am. Felt something on my arm.

Two fleas and one tick.

Lovely, just lovely.

I know as we have 7 dogs who live inside in what is left of our house (two rooms and a hallway)

The chances of fleas/ticks goes up.

Have no where else to put dogs as fence is down while we are getting

Dirt and getting ready to build a new house.

Really don't have much grass or trees left due to all the dirt.

Dogs have stayed on the property.

I spend a fortune monthly on tick/flea preventatives.

However, it seems as though these topical pesticides are not working...thus the tick and fleas.

I sprayed the whole room thoroughly with flea/tick killer.

Took the couch apart. Sprayed it thoroughly too.

Then I vacuumed like a mad demon.

Any other suggestions as to what I can do to minimize or eliminate the risk of fleas/ticks.

That is all we need. To get bit again.

BTW, it was a deer tick, not a lonestar.

No ticks on dogs, just fleas.

Any advice or suggestions (other than getting rid of dogs) are welcomed and appreciated.

Hugs,

Geneal

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CaliforniaLyme
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Give brewers yeast capsules to dogs!!!!!!!!!!

You know it is weird because for some reason OUR last batch of Frontline did not work and we got fleas like crazy and had to flea bomb. But it was like it was water, did not work at all!!!!
Then fleas everywhere, first time ever, yuck!!!

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There is no wealth but life.
-John Ruskin

All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer

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merrygirl
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In a heavy tick season apply the advantix every 3 weeks instaead of every 4. Also do you have cats at home too? Melissa
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merrygirl
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sorry one more thing- The vet sells a pill called capstar- Once you give it to your dog or cat, it will kill any fleas on the pet in 30 minutes. The stuff is great.
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Just Julie
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the fleas (and the ticks) were BAD this season. I was not the only one in my area to notice this. I have had fleas in one area of my back yard, in a screen porch room that is adjacent to a deck that the wild critters here sleep in (they dig a hole thru the lattice wood that is rotting faster than I can barricade the holes)

I finally bought chicken wire, and barricaded the area that is under my deck floor, and it's working, but I still have fleas in that area of my yard. I have sprayed 2 different types of pesticides (both said they killed fleas and ticks) but I walked out there yesterday, and the fleas still jumped all over my legs/ankles like crazy.

This if the first time in the 5 years that I have been battling the flea problem there, that the sprays have not worked, even temporarily. Last summer, I sprayed the same spray I used this year, and it worked for 3 months! This year, not even a week went by before I noticed fleas in this area again. The fleas LOVE me, always have, but my sprays are NOT working.

In the 80's, a product called "Dursban" was a very popular flea killer (probably tick too, but I was not focused on ticks back then). It was pretty powerful, and I sprayed my back yard with it once a month, and it WORKED beautifully.

then, the government decided to ban dursban, and I could not find it anywhere here 5 yrs ago when I encountered my flea problem. Although, I did find it on ebay, coming from Texas!

I bought some off of ebay, and tried it, and it did not work that well, I maybe got a month of not fleas, maybe, and then they were back.

In any case, I believe what i hear when the professionals say that most products these days are not that effective for pest killing. And that's also a reason why bedbugs are back! fyi.

I have not noticed that the Frontline Plus that I used on my cats is NOT working, they are outside only cats, and do not go near the side of the yard where my screen porch room is, so I have no connection to why the fleas are still so prevalent in that area of my yard.

Maybe this is just a bad season? Combined with how the pesticides in general seem to be not strong enough to do much for any length of time?

Sarah, you're near the part of Northern Ca that I live in, and I think we've had the same weather patterns this winter----maybe that is why you're noticing the same stuff I am where I live. The weather this winter has got to have played a part in what we're seeing right now. My other neighbors have commented on this as well.

Just a thought!
Julie

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Julie

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just don
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What HAVE you been spraying,,,specificly???

Probably what you are seeing is resistance to what you have used,builds up over time!!

There are tons of different stuff with different chemistries,,keep rotating the chemistry.

Have you 'tried' Tempo YET??? if not try that,,,smells like you are spraying water,,,made from Geraniums,,,so pretty natural,,and seems MORE effective than other sprays of similiar nature!!

Next effective is permetherin based sprays,,,instant kill,,,residual unknown.

Careful of buying some 'knockoffs' and watered down sprays over the net!!IF you have the old can around compare the active ingredient, volume and strength compared to newer stuff.

They also sell some weed sprays that way,,,promise the moon,,,then cant be found as a company any more!!

Sorta like 4# roundup and ready to use roundup,,,lots of difference.being--just don--

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just don

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treepatrol
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http://www.capstar.novartis.us/dog/en/label.shtml

http://www.capstar.novartis.us/cat/en/label.shtml

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

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treepatrol
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http://www.fda.gov/cvm/Green_Book/200309.pdf

--------------------
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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Just Julie
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I knew after reading about Dursban online that if it is stored (or was stored) at temps above 84 degrees, the active ingredient can degrade and be ineffective? That was my concern with buying this product from TEXAS of all places, from someone who stored the stuff who knows how (hot place? cool location?) but my husband bought it, handed it to me (I'm now the sprayer in the household) to use, and I just said, thanks honey.

It wasn't roses or diamonds, but he knew I was really wanting to reclaim my backyard screened porch room to read in in the evenings (my favorite place to sit and read in) so I was touched that he searched out the Dursban and bought it for me [Wink]

In any case, after that was gone, and I didn't ask him to look for it again, I went to use some pesticide that was made by Ortho, and it was specifically labeled to kill termites and carpenter ants (and fleas and ticks) . . . bifenthrin 2.4% the bottle says. Kills plants too! Yow. The other spray was Sevin, an old one that I recognized from using it in the early 80's when my dog breeders recommended I use the powdered Sevin dust on my dogs for fleas (couldn't get myself to do this to them).

So, I'm going to look for some Tempo. My former pesticide spraying company that I used to spray my oak tree every spring for aphids mentioned this product (I think they even used it on my oak tree). But, I also seem to remember (and this is a stretch) that Tempo has also been banned? Maybe only in California. ???

I'm really sad about not using my screened porch room, and really, avoiding walking over on one side of my limited backyard that has the flea population raging out of control. We have severely cut off using that part of our yard that has oak trees on it, due to the tick issue being what it is in this part of our rural pocket of our town. So, without using this other part of our backyard due to the flea problem, I've been mostly staying inside so far this summer, and I'M BUMMED!

Thanks Don, for the suggestion, I'm gonna pursue it! Witht this, and the potential bartonella issue with my one cat, I've got my week cut out for me, I tell ya!

[ 26. June 2007, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Just Julie ]

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Julie

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merrygirl
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Julie,
from what you describe the fleas are there because of the wild animals. Maybe call a humane trapping company to come and relocate your "guests". I really think that will help. Just a thought

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Just Julie
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Merrygirl, I neglected to mention, that after I put chickenwire to cover the access to my deck next to my screen porch room, I used the pesticide spray that I probably knew in the back of my mind, would not be effective: Sevin, ready to use spray.

I thought, if this Sevin spray were so great, and worked so well, then why did my former pest management company not use it or suggest it when I asked them to spray for fleas many years ago? They said they used Tempo, at the time. This was probably 7-8 yrs ago, when I had my oak tree sprayed for aphids every spring.

So, after closing off my deck access, where I knew the skunks/possums/raccoons lived during the day, and hoping that this would eliminate my yearly flea problem, I sprayed the Sevin. Less than a week later, I walked out to the flea area to do the "ankle test" where I walk barefoot in shorts (not a pretty site, but I'm a walking flea buffet) to see if the fleas were still biting, and sure enough, they were!

I concluded that the Sevin spray was probably not working, sprayed the Ortho stuff (carpenter ant/termite) which I hoped was stronger, but I still have the fleas, 3 weeks later.

I have yet to do another flea bite test, but want to have the next spray in hand ready to use in case I am still seeing fleas. I don't think a trapping company would find anything under my deck, it's completely blocked off. But I did consider using them when I was not up to the deck covering job myself at the beginnning of this summer!

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Julie

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Geneal
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No cats...The dogs would make a meal of them.

I know all of the dirt is contributing to the fleas....

And we have nothing but dirt, dirt and more dirt.

My vet said Advantix could be applied every ten days to two weeks, but boy with 7 dogs,

Six of them over 50 lbs, that could get really expensive.

I just started spraying last week. It is Adam's
home spray for ticks and fleas.

I've upped the vacuuming too. I vacuum, empty and spray the canister.

Then I spray the carpet, couches, etc.

Good thing as we only have two rooms with carpet and a hallway (our house for now),

It only takes about 20 minutes to completely spray everything down.

I hate the thought of bombing.

I have used capstar....however, it only kills fleas for about 24 hours.

I still have capstar for one dog under 20 lbs.

Guess I can go out tomorrow, buy some for the big dogs,

Vacuum and spray again.

Thanks for the suggestions and advice.

Hugs,

Geneal

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merrygirl
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Wow it does sound like you are doing everything possible. Advantix is safe but sure is expensive like you said. Luckily I get mine for freee from the vendors (thank goodnes). maybe go to every 3 weeks and see what happens.

Also have you ever tried Revolution for cats? Just another option. Good Luck. Melissa

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Robin123
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Two ideas come to mind...One woman in New Hampshire recently said she used grapefruit oil extract(not grapefruit seed extract) on her dog's legs, herself and her place, and ...no ticks.

Which was a big discovery for her, since she said the place was crawling with ticks prior to trying this remedy.

2nd idea: TKO Orange. A nontoxic bug killer made from d'limonene form orange peels. A woman in Los Angeles used it in very dilute form on her dog, and also on the yard.

I have seen it kill bugs on impact. It's biodegradable, so should probably be applied every 24 hours. Maybe it could make camping safe again?

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Geneal
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I "camped" outside without electricity for 37 days following Katrina and loss of house.

I told my husband as I learned to "cook" pizza on a grill for my children,

Sweating like a pig in the 95 degree heat,

That he could ask me to do just about anything in this life,

But don't EVER, EVER ask me to go camping....I had enough of that for a lifetime.

Hugs,

Geneal

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just don
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Geneal,

Lets go camping!!!

Sorry just couldnt resist!! [bonk]

not even--just don--

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just don

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winelyme
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Hi,

I found that Mule Train BORAX in the laundy isle at any grocery

store works great on fleas. Just sprinkle in your carpet and every

where because it non toxic and the fleas eat it and it dehidrates them.

Good Luck [Smile]

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Just Julie
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thank you Winelyme! I actually have a box of that in my garage as I bought it to try and remove the glue that got on my hands (Gorilla Glue) !!! So, I am psyched, and will sprinkle it all over the concrete floor of my screen porch room . . .maybe this will be my cure-all for using my screen porch room this summer. Plus, I can "experiment" with using it in a safe environment, that is not accessed by my outside cats. I'd hate to use it outside first, not knowing if it's working on the fleas, and find that my kitty likes to eat it! I'll read the box too, to see if there's a toxic danger to animals. But boy, if this were as easy as it sounds, AND WORKS on my flea killing program, I'll be one happy camper.

I'll be sure and report my results too, as I bet there are more than a few of us with higher than normal flea populations this summer.

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Julie

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Just Julie
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I am just about done with my initial FREAK OUT over the amount of fleas that jumped on my feet and calves just now, while sprinkling the Borax that Winelyme recommended, in my screen porch room.

I have NEVER EVER EVER had this many fleas jump on my legs in this screened porch room in the past 5 years that I have been dealing with this issue.

NEVER.

Initially, when I was sprinkling the Borax, I looked down at my feet (I go out into this room in shorts and flip flops for maximum flesh exposure and flea viewing)and saw the usual 2-5 fleas jumping on me, continued sprinkling the Borax, and noticed, the closer I got to my sliding glass door that attaches the screen porch room to my kitchen, THE MORE FLEAS WERE JUMPING ON ME.

Not that that observation meant anything, other than, I FREAKED OUT!

I used a whole box of Borax, before I finally couldn't stand the fleas on me. I really kept my cool, but it was close. I am not a typical bug freaker-outter, but this came close to my undoing.

I thought of Just Don, got on the internet, and found Do It Yourself Pest website, and ordered myself a bottle of Tempo. I also noticed this website selling Talstar, which is what my old pest control company used to spray on my oak tree years ago, and noticed that this website company would not sell this product (Talstar, not Tempo) in California and a few other states.

One product, forget the name, stated that it was as close to Dursban and Diazinon as possible, but it also could not be sold in California.

It would be funny (well, kinda) if by the time the Tempo arrived on my doorstep, that I found that the Borax (much cheaper) killed all my fleas. But, considering the crazy amount of fleas I just noticed jumping on me right now, I'd have a hard time believing it to happen that easily.

I guess I won't be using this part of my backyard for at least a week, maybe more. There goes 1/2 my summer reading time in my screen porch room!
Wa-aaa, I"m sad!

Damn fleas. I won't even type what I think of ticks. I'd blow torch those suckers all over the earth if I could.
Well, that's the immediate update, will post again when I use the Tempo. Here's to you Just Don, *clink* with my mojito cocktail glass! [Smile]

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Julie

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Ellie K
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Yikes, that's scary!

I'm convinced my dog is one who carried the guilty tick into my house and caused my infection.

Do you make sure to apply Frontline every month? I know it says you can do it every 3 months, but I read somewhere that for ticks you have to do it monthly.

I supplement Frontline with this buckwheat powder that I bought at a holisitic dog store. I brush it through my dog's fur about once a week.

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5dana8
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re: The Frontline.

The box say's it will repell ticks if applied once a month. Every 3 months if you want to repell just fleas.

I use frontline every month on my 2 dogs. But still find some ticks can still hitch hike on the top of their fur into the house. I haven't found an embedded tick on them as yet, but am not happy at the ease at which they can hitch hike in. I gues for now it's better than nothing.

I am going to look into the brewers yeast as an addition, thanks CA lyme. I wish sometimes they would let me vacum them [Eek!]

take care
Dana

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5dana8

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merrygirl
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Please use K9 Advantix instead of frontline. You will like it so much more.....
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giftoflife
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I have been employed by humane society's and vets. Through my experience I'll give you a few tips. Only buy products from your vet. This way your product is guaranteed. If it doesn't work, return it for a full refund. Products that vets buy are handled properly with temperature control and expiration dates which are critical in being effective. If you buy from a store such as Daves Pet Food, the product is not handled properly and is not guaranteed. Also, buying products online is not a good idea as the same issues apply. I can only recommend Foster and Smith for on line supplies. They are pretty reputable and vets tend to like them. Anything else is garbage. Also, the difference between Advantix and Frontline Plus is that the Advantix repells, which make the ticks and fleas jump off of the animal(and onto you!). The Frontline Plus does not have a repellent which makes the ticks and fleas attach to the animal and die, therefore you will not have these disgusting little critters attaching to you. If you are concerned about your dog getting Lyme, make sure he is vaccinated on a yearly basis for it. The VX is 99% effective. There is also a spray product of Frontline Plus which is very effective. As stated by someone else, the product is best effective by applying every 3 weeks, instead of 4. My son contracted chronic lyme 3 years ago. Since then I have been using topical Frontline Plus every 3 weeks along with Frontline Plus spray every 3 days. Also Lyme VX is given yearly. I have 3 dogs and live in a highly infectous area and this protocol works good. I do not like Advatix as this is how my son contracted Lyme. Good Luck.
Gift

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ConnieMc
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quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaLyme:
Give brewers yeast capsules to dogs!!!!!!!!!!


Do you happen to know if you can give brewers yeast caps to cats?

Can you tell me how to find out how much to give to both cats and dogs? Would it be by weight?

Thank you!

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merrygirl
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I have to repectfully disagree with the previous post. As a vet tech for 10 years, I would use nothing on my dogs besides this.

here is a link to K9 Advantix

http://k9advantix.petparents.com/howItWorks.cfm


How It Works
K9 Advantix combines imidacloprid and permethrin to repel and kill fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes that may cross your dog's path.

Each ingredient begins to affect pests on contact, attacking parasite nerve cells at different sites. When combined, the two compounds overwhelm the parasite's nervous system. This leads to rapid paralysis and death of the parasite.


Stops fleas from biting.
K9 Advantix offers proven protection against fleas in multiple stages of development. Imidacloprid, an active ingredient in K9 Advantix, stops biting fleas within three to five minutes and kills them before they lay eggs.

K9 Advantix also kills flea larvae preventing them from developing into adult fleas, breaking the flea lifecycle in multiple stages.


Prevent ticks from attaching.
K9 Advantix offers proven protection against ticks. It repels and kills ticks before they can attach. With K9 Advantix, ticks are repelled and killed before they can bite, reducing the potential risk of a tick-transmitted disease.

Repels mosquitoes from biting.

K9 Advantix repels and kills mosquitoes before they can bite. Research demonstrates that K9 Advantix kills up to 98.3 percent of mosquitoes and reduces their feeding up to 95.2 percent.3 Mosquitoes that do not bite cannot transmit disease causing organisms, keeping your pet protected.

DO NOT USE ON CATS. Due to their unique physiology and inability to metabolize certain compounds, K9 Advantix must not be used on cats.

NOTE that it says rapid paralysis and death!
mithin minutes.

If you want your dog to have ticks sucking on and CRAWLING on and potentionally off your dog for up to 2 days before it dies then use frontline plus.

Otherwise use Advantix.


You can give brewers yeast to cats. The bottle should say how much to give. I am not too sure about the effectiveness of this product.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8240&N=2002+113734

Also 1800petmeds.com is an online animal pharmacy vets in our area work with them.

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merrygirl
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here is frontline info.

http://frontline.us.merial.com/products/products_flplus.asp


Recommended for:

* Dog and cat owners who want the most complete flea and tick control available

FRONTLINE Plus is ideal for use on puppies and kittens 8 weeks of age or older. Not only does FRONTINE Plus kill up to 100% of adult fleas on your pet within 24 hours, it also contains a special ingredient that kills flea eggs and larvae to keep ALL stages of fleas from developing and bothering your pet and your family.

FRONTLINE Plus completely breaks the flea life cycle by effectively stopping the development of new fleas. And, FRONTLINE Plus kills all stages of 4 major ticks, including the one that may carry Lyme disease.

FRONTLINE Plus is available in one dosing size for cats but is administered according to the weight of your dog in four dosing sizes: up to 22 lbs., 23-44 lbs., 45-88 lbs., and 89-132 lbs. FRONTLINE Plus is available in three-dose and six-dose packages.


Notice the lack of info on ticks. Also note how it says within 24 hours. What are the fleas and ticks doing in that time frame??? [Eek!]

Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geneal
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I have also found that Advantix has a better staying power than frontline.

I was told by the vet for one of my dogs who has flea allergies,

That we could actually apply the advantix every 10-14 days as needed.

I used the borax. Am vacuuming daily. Getting a handle on these little blood suckers.

Thanks for all of the advice.

BTW, the dogs will not be living in the new house.

Not because of the potential for ticks, etc.

I just don't want them ruining my one and only new house that I will ever have.

Until we figure something else out, they will continue to reside in the old house complete with air-conditioning and heat.

If I ever come back in this life, I want to my one of my dogs.

Hugs,

Geneal

Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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