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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » Interesting comment from my vet

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Author Topic: Interesting comment from my vet
merrygirl
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I brought my dog to a new vet yesterday. i was talking to an old coworker and it came up that I was pregnant with Lyme. The vet turned and looked at me and said "that can be transmitted in utero right?"

WOW. How is it that my vet knows this basic info, but even my perinatologist (who is excellent and highly regarded) and my other docs dont aknowledge in utero transmission? Its CRAZY!

Its pretty ridiculous. Thank GOD I have a good llmd

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anonymiss
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There seems to be a problem with medical schools, is the only thing I can come up with. I know it's true in other professional training (agriculture being one) that wealthy corporations (and sometimes individuals) are buying up academic departments at public and private universities and exerting dictator-like control over the curriculum.

This has been going on for quite some time in agriculture with bioengineering and chemical industry giants and given the political clout that health insurance and pharmaceutical companies enjoy, it certainly isn't impossible that some kind of vast conspiracy exists to cover-up the true nature and existence of Lyme disease.

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momintexas
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Our GP came right out and told me that they are not taught about Lyme in Medical School. He said they quickly glance over it and that they are told it's rare and easy to fix.

When we were at the vet with our 2 dogs for their checkups, I overheard one of the techs saying the Lyme test on another dog was positive (funny since we don't have Lyme here).

I told our vet that we both had Lyme and were in treatment and his exact words to me were "I sure hope ya'll caught it early or you're screwed."

He then went on to tell me about his friend that has it and it wasn't caught early and he has all kinds of problems.

He said he sees it all the time in pets around here and cannot understand why the medical community is so slow on this.

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Robin123
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Vets always seem to be more informed than human doctors. That's why I say, speak up and educate the docs, 'cause looks like it didn't happen in school.

Good to hear you have a good doctor, Merrygirl!

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Tricky Tickey
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Unbelievable, just unbelievable............. [shake]

--------------------
Early Disseminated LD- 2010.
Currently doing acupuncture and yoga.
Negative Igenex (IND & Pos Bands)
ISSUES AFTER: Tendonitis, letter reversal, Low immune system.
PREVENTION:SaltC,Iodine,Humaworm,
Chiropractic.

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AlanaSuzanne
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I had our dog at the vet recently. While waiting at the reception area, I heard the vet tell the "dad" of a dog:

"She has Lyme Disease. It is imperative that you give her the antibiotic twice a day for 30 days. You cannot miss a dose. I can't emphasize how important this is. Please call if you have any questions. We want to see her in a month. I hope she feels better soon"

I'm thinking we'll just go to the vet from now on.

--------------------
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

---Eleanor Roosevelt

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BoxerMom
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We love our vet. She knows about our diagnoses, and has asked us tons of questions about Lyme and co-infections. She calls us her "experts."

I can't say the same for our doctors. They're offended by how much we know about Lyme.

Seriously, we should all just go to vets.

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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merrygirl
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all of my docs (except my llmd) told me that I shouldnt be on abx while pregnant. They did all agree that they wouldnt be harmful, but i didnt NEED them.

I was told that if I contracted it while pregnant that would be different. But because its classified as chronic ( I usually just say Lyme and leave off the chronic part)the bacteria is not floating around the blood, its hiding out in tissues. I said thats probablly accurate, but if you take the abx away, there is no threat to the bacteria and its possible for them to come out of hiding.

I just told them that it was my baby, and they were not the ones that would have to deal with a sick child. Eventually they stopped bringing it up.

I often wonder if they will give me my abx if I get admitted to the hospital early? if not I will have hubby smuggle them in. Pretty sad.

they even tried to get me to go see the ID doc at the hospital. I said that that would never happen.

Its frustrating.

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skies
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My vet is the same way, he's great! He knows much more about lyme, etc. than any of the "ordinary" doctors I've seen. I would much rather have him treat me than the PCPs that I know!! Sad. [shake]

--------------------
"The simple things can get you through the hardest times."  -

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Liz D
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I am on Vancouver Island. The vet 3 doors down from my office knows and treats lyme. Doctors here say its 'not here' and wont treat me. Go figure.
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Lymetoo
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I believe it that they are not taught about Lyme in medical school ... really stupid.

My niece and her husband are veterinarians. She has friends who were unable to get into Vet School and so they became medical doctors instead!!!

So I believe that doctors are not as smart as vets and I'm sticking to it!!!
[lol]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Robin123
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Wonder if there's anything we can do about the fact that the vets know - do they not speak to human doctors? Have they ever? Are they not allowed to make comment about human care? Are we dealing with a professional divide here?

I have always found them more knowledgeable, open and helpful, just about closer to how we should be responded to.

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merrygirl
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vets do help in human medicine because of zoonotic diseases.

It is a known fact it is harder to get into vet school than medical school.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by merrygirl:

It is a known fact it is harder to get into vet school than medical school.

-
Interesting! I thought maybe that was only because my niece and nephew are in TX. The Veterinary School at Texas A & M is very hard to get into.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Lymetoo
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Robin... Doctors are not human!! [lol] [Big Grin]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Carol in PA
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin123:

...do they not speak to human doctors?
Are we dealing with a professional divide here?

For the first several years that I was in nursing, I worked in a hospital with Osteopathic doctors.
The students and residents there seemed to be getting the same education as M.D.'s, but also learned Osteopathic manipulation.

It seemed that the Osteopaths hesitated to refer patients to M.D.'s, and for sure the M.D.'s weren't referring their patients to Osteopaths.
They did not attend medical conferences with each other, and did not get to know each other in professional situations.

I noticed this division, and I bet it's the same with veterinarians.
If they were able to meet each other at training sessions, with presentations by each of the disciplines, this stance might soften.

Wouldn't THAT be interesting, a professional session about tick borne infections with M.D.'s, Osteopaths, and Veterinarians, each sharing experiences.

Heh, I bet the vets would have alot to teach the physicians.

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map1131
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Well heck, look at the advertising dollars spent this time of year on pet commercials for tick and flea killers.

You pet could get Lyme Disease. Didn't you guys know that?

Now you would think somebody would come up with a tick, flea repellant for humans. After all humans do get bite by ticks and fleas, don't they. I don't mean Off, deet, or someother cancer causing agent for humans. Two legged type?

Gosh, I wish I had half a brain. I'd get rich.

Pam
Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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map1131
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I know if I had a tick collar on, I'd be tick safe. Wouldn't I?

Or just a solution they put on my neck once a month? One that doesn't kill me before the lyme does?

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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JeniferM
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Maybe I could wear them around my ankles when I walk through the grass? hahahahahaha!

--------------------
IgM: [18++,31+++,34++,41++,83-93+] [39 IND]
IgG: [41 IND]
Positive according to IGeneX. Negative according to CDC. Negative for co-infections.
Currently treating for Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia

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Lymetoo
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I think you could still get bit by a tick even with a collar on. The collars make sure the tick dies .... eventually. But it may be too late by then.

Frontline is the same.

Merrygirl???

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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Robin123
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Ok - then I have a proposal for vets - I want them to put on a conference for human doctors about the realities of Lyme/co's, and we can all attend with our dog/cat/mouse/rabbit etc ears and tails on.

With the www.dogsandticks.com site featured on all the walls, with a giant cursor going constantly over the states showing the stats for Lyme etc in dogs everywhere - like putting the doctors in a fun house of mirrors -

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Lymetoo
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good one, robin

from that site:

http://www.dogsandticks.com/NA-map-lyme-disease-dogs/index.html

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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merrygirl
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In my experience tick collars are not so great. Lymetoo you are correct about frontline. It takes up to 2 days to kill a tick. So what is the tick doing in the those 2 days??

Frontline is the best product for cats right now.

For dogs I really like advantix. It REPELS fleas ticks and mosquitos. When the tick comes in contact with the pets treated fur, The tick pretty much instantly becomes affected. It paralyzes them the fall off and die.

I apply every 3 weeks. It is not safe to put on cats.

There are a couple of videos of ticks on dogs treated with frontline and dogs treated with advantix. It was pretty interesting. i will see if I can find it.

I believe there is a new product called vectra. I know nothing about it since it came out while I have been disabled and not working.

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skies
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I use Vectra on my dogs and feel it works better than Advantix.

Just my personal opinion/experience.

--------------------
"The simple things can get you through the hardest times."  -

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merrygirl
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here it is

gross...

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/k9-advantix-tick-video/b631bfea7cddc9db05c6b631bfea7cddc9db05c6-1025589510822?q=k9+advantix+vs.+frontline+video&FORM=VIRE1

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merrygirl
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Just FYI...

I looked up vectra and compared to Advantix. Again I have NO experience with vectra this was just a quick search.

Vectra sounds a little more dangerous to me, but if my dogs were getting ticks on advantix i would prob give it a try (although they have health problems and on meds so not sure I could)

http://www.drugs.com/vet/vectra-3d.html


Vectra 3D
This page contains information on Vectra 3D for veterinary use.
The information provided typically includes the following:
*Vectra 3D Indications
*Warnings and cautions for Vectra 3D
*Direction and dosage information for Vectra 3D
Vectra 3d
This treatment applies to the following species:

*Dogs
Manufacturer: Ceva Animal Health
- Vectra 3D for dogs and puppies 2.5 to 20 lbs, over 7 weeks of age

- Vectra 3D for dogs and puppies 21 to 55 lbs, over 7 weeks of age

- Vectra 3D for dogs 56 to 95 lbs

- Vectra 3D for dogs over 95 lbs

ONLY AVAILABLE FROM LICENSED VETERINARIANS

- 6-way protection, repels and kills fleas, ticks, mosquitoes, lice, sand flies and mites

- Kills 4 species of ticks ( Rhipicephalus spp, Dermacentor variabilis, Ixodes spp, Amblyomma spp), 3 species of mosquitoes ( Culex spp, Ochlerotatus spp, Aedes spp), and all stages of fleas

- Quick onset of activity within 2 hours; kills fleas in 6 hours

- Repels and kills ticks that may cause Lyme disease, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, babesiosis, ehrlichiosis, bartonellosis, hepatozoonosis and anaplasmosis

- Convenient topical treatment that allows application down to skin

- Quick drying, non-greasy and water resistant

- Only available from licensed veterinarians

Spreads naturally over the dog's body to provide full body protection against fleas, ticks, mosquitoes, lice, sand flies and mites.

Active Ingredients
Dinotefuran
4.95%

Pyriproxyfen
0.44%

Permethrin
36.08%

OTHER INGREDIENTS
58.53%

TOTAL
100.00%


DO NOT USE ON CATS

KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN

Warning
See directions for use, precautionary statements, first aid and ingredients.
FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, CONTACT US AT 1-800-999-0297

READ ENTIRE LABEL BEFORE EACH USE

USE ONLY ON DOGS OR PUPPIES OVER 7 WEEKS OLD

PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS

HAZARDS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS

For external use on dogs only. Do not use this product on cats.

Use only on dogs and puppies over the age of 7 weeks (1.6mL and 3.6mL sizes)

Warning
Causes substantial, but temporary eye injury, harmful if swallowed or absorbed through skin. DO NOT get in eyes or on clothing. Avoid contact with skin. Remove and wash contaminated clothing before reuse. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling and before eating, drinking, chewing gum or using tobacco products.
Do not use this product on debilitated, aged, medicated, pregnant or nursing animals, or animals known to be sensitive to pesticide products without first consulting a veterinarian.

Sensitivity, such as slight transitory redness of the skin at the site of application, may occur after using ANY pesticide product for pets. If signs of sensitivity occur, bathe your pet with mild soap or shampoo and rinse with large amounts of water. If signs of individual animal sensitivity occur and persist, contact your veterinarian. Have the product container or label with you when calling your veterinarian for advice.

DO NOT USE ON CATS. Due to their unique physiology and inability to metabolize certain compounds, this product must not be used on cats. If applied to a cat, or ingested by a cat that actively grooms a recently treated dog, this product may have serious harmful effects. If this occurs, contact your veterinarian immediately.


http://www.vetinfo.com/k9-advantix-side-effects.html


Side Effects of Advantix for Dogs
Generally, no dogs given the correct dosage of K9 Advantix ever had any adverse effects. However, some dogs do have a sensitivity to the medication and develop skin irritation after the medication is applied. Dogs with sensitive skin may roll around and try to rub the medication off on furniture or bedding. A red, irritated patch, looks like a burn, may appear at the application site.

A small percentage of dogs develop unusual behavior after the medication has been applied. This includes running around in circles, panting excessively or simply seem disinterested in activity. If this occurs, call your veterinarian. Many of these symptoms clear up after a dose of Benadryl, but you should ask for veterinary advice before taking this route.

K9 Advantix and Puppies, Elderly or Pregnant Dogs
Do not use Advantix on puppies under seven weeks of age or that weight less than three pounds. The permethrin dosages in dogs that small may cause an overdose.

If you suspect your dog may be pregnant, ask your vet before you give your dog the dosage of K9 Advantix. The same goes for elderly or sick dogs. In many cases, it's safer to avoid using the medications in Advantix for the time being.

Warnings for K9 Advantix for Households with Cats
Advantix should never be used on cats. Cats do not process the medications within Advantix in the same manner dogs do. Poisoning can occur if you use it on your cat. In addition, if your cat ingests the medication, death can occur. Seek immediate veterinary care if you believe your cat has been exposed to the medication.

If you have a multiple pet household, separating your dogs after application is advised. The best method for separation is to apply the medication at night and then either crate your dog or put your cat in a room with a closed door. Keep them separated overnight to prevent the cat from ingesting any of the medication while grooming your dog.


My own dog had a reaction to Advantix one time. It was skin irritation on the application site. The company paid for the treatment. I have seen the irritation from the advantix and maybe a couple of dogs who acted agitated after application.

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tonysgirl
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Merrygirl,

What do you know about Preventix collars? I have been using those in addition to the Advantix. So far, so good. I hope this is not overkill.

By the way, we do not have any cats as I know the Preventix collars should not be used on them.

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skies
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Great, I can't win. [Frown]

--------------------
"The simple things can get you through the hardest times."  -

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merrygirl
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I am not a fan of the collars. they are usually used with revolution. Honestly using advantix alone every 3 weeks should be enough. I personally dont have much faith in collars, but I have no problems with advantix.

Preventic-
Precautionary Statements:
The Virbac Preventic Tick Collar contains Amitraz, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI), and should not be used on pets being given any other MAOI such as Anipryl or selegiline. Humans taking MAOI medications or who are diabetic should use this product with caution and should wash hands thoroughly after applying the collar. Use rubber gloves when putting the Preventic Tick Collar on your pet.
Do not use Preventic Collar on dogs less than 12 weeks of age.

Keep this and all medications out of the reach of children.



Skies I am sorry.

I really dont have any personal knowledge about vectra. The things that worry me is that it says you cant use on pets that take meds for other issues. And avoid contact with skin? You apply it to your dogs skin? Thats worrisome to me.

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Lenny777
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I was talking to a nurse at my family doc just the other day and he said vets can actually practice medicine(on people) but people docs can't practice on animals. I did a quick google and didn't really see anything either way. Not sure if he knows what he's taking about but maybe your closest LLMD might be your vet. [Wink]

--------------------
I had no intention of living this way. Adam Duritz
"Somethings inside me. What could it be?" -van Gogh

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merrygirl
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vets are not allowed to treat people. I did have a doc a long time ago that was vet and a md. I used to joke around that he would "scruff" me during an exam....hahaha
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Robin123
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Merrygirl - what do you think of this? The Orange TKO folks - same as Orange Guard, in concentrate form, bug repellent derived from oranges - say it's ok to spray/mist on dog and cat fur as a secondary preventive beyond the repellent from the vet and pet store.

And I have met a woman with a radio show with 650,000 listeners, so she said, who is recommending the above as well.

Both forms get diluted in water first.

The orange stuff repels and kills bugs, including ticks. It's biodegradable and would need to be applied every 24 hours or before the dog or cat goes out again.

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merrygirl
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I have no experience with the tko orange. can you provide a link? I can look at it
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Robin123
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Take a look at www.organicorangetkocal.com
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merrygirl
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I dont think I would use it directly on my pet based on what I read. But just so you know, I am not very into natural and organic stuff. So maybe I am biased.
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Carol in PA
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d-Limonene (from orange peel oil)
http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-d-Limonene-1000-mg-60-Softgels/13877?at=0

Robin, does that look the same to you?
I've been taking it for gastric reflux, with good results.

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Indy
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I had a ?-- I have 2 dogs treated w/frontline, my mothers dog has a heartz flea/tick collar on, & my aunt's dogs hve the new preventix collar. the only dog w/out ticks on her is my mothers.?!

mine had the most, and they all went to the same place with us today. does anyone know anything about the cons of heartz collars ?

thanks Indy

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"Real power is usually unspectacular, a simple setting aside of fear that allows the free flow of love. But it changes everything" -MBeck

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Robin123
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Yes, Carol, the active ingredient in Orange Guard and TKO Orange is d'limonene. It's what they're also using against termites these days.

But you know, I'd not heard of taking it internally - that practically sounds like it's worth its own thread! D'limonene taken internally for gastric reflux - who knew?!

Now, I met a woman a while back who had a talk show with 650,000 listeners in Los Angeles. She told me she recommended putting the orange stuff on dogs as an added precaution.

I asked her if she'd ever heard any complaints and she said no. She's not a vet though, just someone who gets news out to a lot of folks.

Btw, this is the tick repellent I use for myself - I put a little bit in a spray bottle, fill up with water, and spray on clothing and my immediate ground environment if I'm going to be in contact with any outside veg or wood.

The folks that sell it demonstrated to me that they could put it on their skin, but it stings mine, so I would recommend using other essential oils.

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merrygirl
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hartz products have killed many pets....mostly cats I have seen it many many times with my own eyes... The stuff should be banned.. I would never ever suggest this product. again Indy maybe try the advantix?

http://www.hartzvictims.org/

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Lymetoo
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What's the name of the product that HARTZ makes?

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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AlanaSuzanne
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Very interesting thread.

Have any of you used "Revolution" on your dog as opposed to Vectra/Advantix/Frontline?

Opinions?

I personally would rather use something natural/organic.

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You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

---Eleanor Roosevelt

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Indy
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thaks for the info about hartz, I didn't know that. I will show my mother so she will take off her dogs collar

then we will try the advatix.--we live in western pa & the ticks are sooo numerous this year. I have never seen so many, even when I lived in MD.

There were no ticks here untill a few years ago, and then only a few. Its so unsetteling.

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"Real power is usually unspectacular, a simple setting aside of fear that allows the free flow of love. But it changes everything" -MBeck

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daisyrlb
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Lymetoo shared, "...friends who were unable to get into Vet School and so they became medical doctors instead!!!"

That splains it.

Robin, I added the link too...this takes you right to the map. Recorded number of dogs with Lyme. Interactive map by state.

http://www.dogsandticks.com/NA-map-lyme-disease-dogs/index.html

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merrygirl
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Revolution is known not to be so great for ticks.

I personally wouldnt buy ANY hartz products, but any kind of flea tick treatment or shampoo. The stuff is BAD

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