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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » Therapist Is Recommending Antidepressant.

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Author Topic: Therapist Is Recommending Antidepressant.
jessicabooklover
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Hi everyone. I have had an eventful 24 hours or so. I started to feel aching in my lower back and severe nausea yesterday. I tried to ignore it but it came to a head last night and I knew it was another kidney stone. I went to the ER and got it scanned and passed it at 6 am. UGH.

Even though I was feeling incredibly run down, I had a phone session with my therapist Dr F today. He said he thinks that I really should try a low dose antidepressant again. I explained to him that-as he knew from my history-that my reactions to antidepressants in the past were terrible and that I am even more concerned about side effects now with my lyme and co's raging.

He reiterated that he thinks I need a medicine now, as I have been so sick and depressed for so long that it has resulted in a significant change in my brain chemistry. He wants me to see a psychopharmacologist this Friday.

I have been on Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, lithium (misdiagnosed as bipolar when I was 16) and Zoloft in the past. They all made me too sick with side effects to continue. To be honest, I think I also didn't give the meds much of a chance to work and try to fully work through the side effects because I was so horrified by the stigma of being on "crazy people drugs".

Do you think an antidepressant will even work for such an underweight person right now? Is it worth trying psych meds again, or is it going to mess up my lyme treatment and/ or just put a bandaid on the real issues?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. This really torments me. I am so ashamed of even potentially needing psych drugs. I feel such a self-imposed stigma. BLECH. Ok thanks in advance for any responses. Jess

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lax mom
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It's a lifejacket...not a band-aid. That's what my therapist told me when I fought going back on an anti-depressant (she was right).

--------------------
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
(aperture)
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MannaMe
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Are you taking any omega 3's? The healthcare provider we saw, says 90% of depression comes from lack of omega 3's.
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Keebler
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There seem to some who benefit greatly. And some who are devastated greatly by them, too.

So much depends on how your body metabolizes the classification of the drug.

I did terribly on everyone I tried and they made me much worse, even suicidal. So, I want to warn people that it can be the wrong move.

But it depends on your body.

I later found out that, likely due to porphyria, my body could not metabolize any drugs that used the Cytochrome P-450 liver detoxifcation pathway and the disasterous reaction to antidepressants had likely been attacks of porphyria.

For me, for my body, they are toxic.

However, for others, some antidepressants have truly lifted them out of deep dark waters and saved their lives.

With your history of trying others, I would tread carefully. I'd not turn away but try to think if there were mitigating circumstances - something other than the drugs that might have caused your reaction.

First, I'd look to the deficiencies that cause depression. But, you may not have time for that at the moment. A life jacket while you figure out how to get out of the water just makes certain sense.

Still, I'd encourage you to team up with a LL ND to explore the least toxic approaches.

AURUM homeopathic saved my life more than once.

So did other things but they can take a while.

This is a decision that no one can really decide for you. And, I fear that in your weakened and deficient state that even the best nutrients will not work fast enough to help turn over a switch, so to speak.

This is where naturopathic doctors can shine, though. I sure wish you had someone who knew all the choices.

For certain, though, I suspect that you could be having a porphyria attack, or continued porphryia. That can cause deep depression and suicidal tendances. If porphyria, most antidepressants can make it worse.

With your history of reactions, your low calorie intake, and other things . . . . porphyria is possible.

First, be sure to consider that . . . see if you can find an antidepressant that is safe for someone who has porphyria. I would hope your therapist might know about that.

Now, if so, there are certain ways to work WITH that. Liver support is number one. Liver support can help one better tolerate certain drugs.
-

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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.

PORPHYRIA links here, too.
-

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Keebler
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http://www.drluc.com/homeopath-depression.htm

Homeopathy to help relieve depression.


A LL ND is best to guide this and, likely, key nutritional and some herbal supplements would also be part of a comprehensvie approach.

Aurum Metallicum is what a ND used that literally turned off the "suicide switch" for me.

Therapists are not trained in nutrition, nor in herbal or nutritional supplements. I would hope you can find a good LL ND for this aspect of your care - not to replace the therapist as the talk therapy is vital, but to help with these other decisions.
-

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Keebler
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OmegaBrite, as your omega oil, may work better. And faster. Many report that. I'd say that is the place to begin - today - with a better fish oil.

And eating wild salmon and sardines. Sardines for breakfast is a great help for mood stabilization. At least once a day, at one time, sardines saved my life from depression.

It's not enough to just take fish oil, our brains need the whole fish, too. Daily.

Questions:

What kind and what dose (how many times a day, how many mg?) is your MAGNESIUM?

Your TAURINE?

Whatever FISH OIL you are taking?

Is your B-12 sublingual?

Folic Acid?

Perhaps the brands or doses are not adequate.


Hypoglycemia can cause depression. Adrenal dysfunction, too. Both can trigger feelings of suicide as well. Consistent availability of nutrients -- and good adrenal support can be great mood support, too.
-

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Keebler
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http://www.wildplanetfoods.com/

Wild Planet

- sustainably caught wild seafood in BPA-free cans

-------------------

I just remembered that you are a vegan. I'm not sure what brought you to that decision but I just have to say that, IMO, unless you start adding some organic eggs from pastured hens and some good fish, your brain may not have an easy road ahead.

Fish that is caught with mindful practices may be the first ticket to help. I cannot imagine even being able to live without fish in my diet. It has helped me in so many ways.

Plants offer us much goodness but we just can't find everything in plants. Look at the native tribes of our land. They survived and thrived with a variety of foods, in the best of spirit and care.
-

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jessicabooklover
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Thank you so much lax and Keebler. Keebler, do you really think my vegan diet may be contributing to my depression? I did eat eggs and cheese in the past week because I felt that I was being too restrictive. My nutritionist also is rethinking the vegan approach. Jess
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Keebler
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Q: really think my vegan diet may be contributing to my depression?

Yes, absolutely, in your case.

However, I would never consider eating just any eggs, fish or meats. Only from the very cleanest of sources with the very best organic practices. It matters greatly regarding the nutrients and then how our bodies can take up the nutrients.

This sounds snobby but it's a sad fact that so much of the food supply in our nation has been turned into stuff that is not really good for us. But we can still find good quality food to fuel and help repair our cells.

Eggs: best from organically fed hens that are allowed to be out in pasture. Most stores now carry such eggs but best from Farmers' Markets. They cost more but are well worth it.

Chicken: Same tender loving care, of course. Again, they cost more but you don't need to eat a lot and the bones can be boiled for broth, very nourishing and flavorful for bean soups, wild rice, etc.

Fish: WILD, never farmed. And cleared for mercury, etc.

If you consider beef, grass raised (no corn), free range is best (all the way if possible, not even taken to the stock yards until the very end and then only a humane one fashioned in line with Temple Grandin's style) but also consider lamb & buffalo, likely "free" living as that's how they do best.
-

[ 04-10-2013, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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jessicabooklover
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Thanks Keebler. I appreciate it. Jess
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homesick73
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Prozac really helped me when I was in a big funk. Maybe you could try a very low dose and work up slowly.

--------------------
"Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler

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Keebler
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With any such Rx, it may work best to take with some good food, like a warm soup, rather than on an empty stomach. That way, you may have a more balanced reaction.


I had just come back to add this:

SOUPS, NOURISHING SOUPS

[not sure if all the recipies in this book are gluten-free but enough must be (or easily adapted) as to wind up on this GF Blog:

http://www.glutenfreecat.com/category/healthy-living/

See fabulous photos at the blog above and more book detail here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1936608677/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1936608677&linkCode=as2&tag=glufrecat-20

LADLED: NOURISHING SOUPS FOR ALL SEASONS

- by Kimberly Harris (December 18, 2012)

over 50 reader reviews, a near perfect composite 5 star rating.
-

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faithful777
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Jess, is being vegan an ethical choice or do you feel ill eating any kind of meat protein?

I was a vegetarian for 14 years and did not thrive. Eventually I found out that for my blood type, I should eat a certain amount of meat protein.

It was very hard to change my habits but I can eat fish and some poultry and do okay. I only eat my own chickens eggs which are organic. The ones from the grocery store make me feel sick.

Even my kids made the change to vegetarian and my husband supported me and ate the same way. Now all of us eat some meat protein and are doing better.

I still eat lots of veggies and love salad. I could live on just that for every meal but know for my health, I have to eat fish or poultry.

I just wondered if you just can't tolerate meat protein or prefer not to eat it.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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Kudzuslipper
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Jess, if anti depressants make you a crazy person the whole world is crazy! There are situations that get you in a rut mentally and physically that you just can't get out of without help.

Like lax mom says its a life jacket. There is no shame in doing what you need to do to survive and thrive.

[ 04-11-2013, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Kudzuslipper ]

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Dove7
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Jessica,
If you trust Dr. F, I'd try it, asking how long it would be to see/feel results and what you should do if it makes you have darker thoughts.

Our daughter has gone various levels of vegetarianism at times these past few years. Our doc said she needed some animal protein, so we do lots of Amish-raised chicken, soups (from bones), lentils, and turkey as a family.

Every single body is different. Only you cano make this choice, but at this time in your life, this educated professional (your doc) has put this as a first course. Also, remember that brain chemistry can be impacted by toxins, Lyme, hormones (that vary at differing body and chemical make-ups), diet, and lifestyle.

Best of luck in making a wise decision. Seeking and asking, then acting is another act of bravery. I'm grateful you're working on you and talking.

You're worth taking care of yourself, and speaking as a parent, I bet your dad is thrilled that he senses, if you haven't told him, of the steps you're taking instead of treading water.
Hugs.

--------------------
'Hope' is a thing with feathers, that perches in the soul-- Emily Dickinson

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tickled1
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Jess, if anyone is entitled to a life jacket it is us who struggle with chronic illness. There is no shame in that.
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jessicabooklover
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Thank you so much everyone! It means a ton. Jess.
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beaches
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Hi Jess!

Thought you were leaving the forum?

So glad to see you decided to stay!!

IMO an antidepressant isn't a bad idea. Many of them can actually make you gain weight, which for you would be a good thing.

Ask Dr. F. about Lexapro. It put 30 unwanted pounds on me!

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poppy
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I don't think you should worry about taking the drug if you need it, but they should be very careful about the selection and dose and consider your past history with them. They must make sure not to repeat previous problems because someone in your situation does not need any further trauma.

Psychopharmacologist sounds good. There is a lyme literate psych, should your expert want to consult with him.

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beaches
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Yes, there is an excellent LL psychiatrist.

Jess, LMK if you need his name. Might be a good idea for your Dr. F. and him to correspond.

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beaches
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Up for Jess...
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jessicabooklover
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Thanks Beaches! I will PM you tmrw. I just saw this and am off to zzzs [Wink] . I appreciate it so much. Jess.
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annxyzz
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Jessica,
A low dose of zoloft or prozac make a huge difference to me and to many people I know
( some family members ) . I rseisted the idea too of crazy people drugs. I appeared totally normal extrnally and on psych tests . But I felt HORRIBLE , fatigued, had zero desire to eat, and felth I had a cloud of sadness over my head I could not escapse . It cam on unexpectedly and suddenly . Later Ilearned it was a four generation genetic issue ( and I also have MTHFR ) .

One big reason some people do not respond well to meds , i have read , is because the meds need some degree of serotonin to bond with. If your body is producing or converting NONE , then it is harder for drugs to work. Diet is so critical ! You can definitely help yourself , and start by checking for MTHFR test . If positive then take METHYL B and Methy Folate , which are precursors for dopamine and serotonin . And ALWAYS , ALWAYS take extra B Vitamin, and fish oil.

Amino acids are a huge deal , and a defecit of taurine , Gaba, or phenylalinine can leave you depressed or anxious. And meat has amino acids, so they must be supplemented esp if vegan.

Look these up at amazon:

"The Way Up From Down " patricia slagle md (check her site too )

and "THe Mood Cure " by Julia Ross I believe .

These are well worth reading as they explain the chemistry that we can influence with diet and amino acids and fish oil.

You can also check "Harvard study fish oil depression " and find that a study found that high doses of fish oil cured depression in one group .

Because of my family history and MTHFR , I am careful to help my brain . I supplement methyl folic acid , methyl B 12 ( already converted so my body has enough ) fish oil, A B vitamin, fish oil, and even extra amino acids. We simply can not have a life with a broken brain !!

My daughter struggles also , and does OK with meds in a high stress job. But she seems on edge when she becomes careless with her supplements , and as her mom , I can hear it in her voice .

I think many of us with depression can help ourselves to a degree with nutrition. I am not giving up my low dose of medicine , because I have no problems with it and I do not need more challenges . But even with the meds, I strongly sense my nutrition has a big influence and that supplements are very necessary . I also eat eggs now . I used to fear cholesterol , but now realize choline is critical ! I have wondered many times if the increasing frequency of anxiety and depression are not closely related to diets without eggs or fish . As a culture , we have less of both now. Cultures who have those in diet report far less problems with depression !

You can get much better , even with the lousy disease of lyme . I have sad moments too , esp when I have several bad days of symptoms and feel alone and isolated . ( Isolation compounds it all IMO ) .

Hang on and determine to take care of yourself!!
May I add also some things that help me immensely ?
Avoiding too much news ( I almost made myself ill with Boston crisis obsession )

Being religious with antioxidant colorful diet and supplements / fish oil

Filling my little mind with things that are uplifting : beautiful music , reading extensively about art, history etc.. watching good escape from BBC like " Larkrise to Candleford " or "Bramwell ".

A list of authors and feel good books :

Flora Thompson "Larkrise to Candleford " series

Lee Smith "ON Agate Hill "

Kaye Gibbons "CHarms For The Easy Life "

Nancy Turner " These Is My Words "

anything by Rosamund Pilcher and Maeve Binchy

I include these because when I am feeling bad and blue , these are the vacation I can afford to enter another world . Music and literature that are uplifting have a therapeutic effect .

I hope each day gets you to a stronger place - one step at a time.

--------------------
annxyzz

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jessicabooklover
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Thanks so very much for such a comprehensive post! Jess
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Winni
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Jess, How are you doing? I have been thinking about you [Smile] .

--------------------
Winni

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jessicabooklover
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Hi Winni. Thanks for asking. I have been pretty sick but am trying to hang in there as best I can. I was posting way too often on here heh so I haven't done so in awhile.

I appreciate you thinking of me and I hope you are doing OK. [Smile] . Jess.

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Winni
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Glad to hear from you! So happy you are still around here. My thoughts are with you! Hugs!

--------------------
Winni

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jessicabooklover
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Thank you so much!
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beaches
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Jess, SO GOOD to see you back here.

How the heck are you???

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jessicabooklover
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Hi beaches! Pretty sick still but I am trying to keep going as best I can. I tried to send you a PM weeks ago but your mailbox was full.

I hope you are doing OK. I will send you a PM tmrw. Thank you so much for always being so supportive of me. XOXO Jess

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beaches
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LOL I guess I am Miss Popularity [Smile] NOT!

If you try to PM me and the mailbox is full pls post and I'll clean it out.

I am looking forward to hearing from you and fingers crossed, things are going well on your end. xoxo

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