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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » Merck's former doctor predicts that Gardisil will be the greatest medical scandal of

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Author Topic: Merck's former doctor predicts that Gardisil will be the greatest medical scandal of
Lymetoo
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http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/01/25/mercks-former-doctor-predicts-gardasil-to-become-the-greatest-medical-scandal-of-all-time/

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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lpkayak
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Doesnt surprise me. I have been worried about this since it came out

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Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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LisaK
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everyone I know gave it to their daughters AND sons. disgusting

______

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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Lymetoo
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I have a friend whose daughter is on a feeding tube and has severe POTS. They think it's all from the vaccine.

She is 18 and such a trooper .. but very ill. She used to have severe abdominal pain when she would try to eat. They finally had to tube feed her. That's been her life for more than 2 yrs now.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Maia_Azure
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Me and two of my siblings received this vaccine when it came out, none of us experienced any ill effects...must have been 8 years ago maybe?

I have read that Australia is six years into a nationwide HPV vaccination campaign and they have seen a sharp decline in the number of cases of genital warts.

Its supposed to protects against genital warts as well as cancers of the cervix, head and neck (Maybe Michael Douglas could have benefited...)

The paper cited says, "A solid evidence of causal relationship was provided in few cases in the examined studies, and the risk vs. benefit of vaccination is still to be solved."

So, there isn't definitive evidence yet, just a casual relationship. They have to examine data and design studies that show a positive relationship between the vaccine and autoimmune disorders. That is not going to be easy, because autoimmune disorders on the whole, are on the rise.

How they are going to go about linking the two, will be interesting to say the least.

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Sick since 2000
Bulls eye 2005
Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014

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Looking
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Merck is making a mint with this vaccine, they are not going to let it go if they can help it.

Remember Merck's Vioxx scandal. The painkiller used by 25 million Americans before Merck was forced to recall it because of the drug’s heart attack and stroke risks.

Vioxx was blamed for more than 3,400 deaths, and Merck paid out nearly $7 billion to settle tens of thousands of Vioxx lawsuits and to cover legal costs – and an additional $1 billion to settle criminal and civil charges over illegal marketing and sales of the drug.

And they recently had another big settlement over
failure to disclose that Vytorin (cholestrol drug) was being promoted in the absence of evidence that it had any medical benefit over other similar drugs. And the list goes on.

It's all about the money after all.


Below is what these researchers think of the so-called trials on HPV vaccine.

--------------------------------------------------
Tomljenovic L1, Spinosa JP, Shaw CA.
Author information

1Neural Dynamics Research Group, Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of British Columbia, 828 W. 10th Ave, Vancouver, BC, V5Z 1L8, Canada. [email protected]

Abstract

We carried out a systematic review of HPV vaccine pre- and post-licensure trials to assess the evidence of their effectiveness and safety. We find that HPV vaccine clinical trials design, and data interpretation of both efficacy and safety outcomes, were largely inadequate.

Additionally, we note evidence of selective reporting of results from clinical trials (i.e., exclusion of vaccine efficacy figures related to study subgroups in which efficacy might be lower or even negative from peer-reviewed publications).

Given this, the widespread optimism regarding HPV vaccines long-term benefits appears to rest on a number of unproven assumptions (or such which are at odd with factual evidence) and significant misinterpretation of available data.

For example, the claim that HPV vaccination will result in approximately 70% reduction of cervical cancers is made despite the fact that the clinical trials data have not demonstrated to date that the vaccines have actually prevented a single case of cervical cancer (let alone cervical cancer death), nor that the current overly optimistic surrogate marker-based extrapolations are justified.

Likewise, the notion that HPV vaccines have an impressive safety profile is only supported by highly flawed design of safety trials and is contrary to accumulating evidence from vaccine safety surveillance databases and case reports which continue to link HPV vaccination to serious adverse outcomes (including death and permanent disabilities).

We thus conclude that further reduction of cervical cancers might be best achieved by optimizing cervical screening (which carries no such risks) and targeting other factors of the disease rather than by the reliance on vaccines with questionable efficacy and safety profiles.

PMID:
23016780
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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randibear
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my mom's stroke was caused by vioxx. this started her downhill trend.

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do not look back when the only course is forward

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Dekrator48
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I know someone whose daughter fell of the exam table and had a seizure as soon as she was injected with Gardisil.

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The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.

"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Looking:

We thus conclude that further reduction of cervical cancers might be best achieved by optimizing cervical screening (which carries no such risks) and targeting other factors of the disease rather than by the reliance on vaccines with questionable efficacy and safety profiles.

-
Exactly.

Dekrator, another of my friends knows someone who had a seizure right then and there.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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no_lyme_in_florida
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A roommate of mine from college went on to attend medical school and has been a medical researcher for the last 25 years, working mainly in the field of drug safety.

He point blank told me that he would never ever let anyone in his family take Gardasil after seeing the number and severity of adverse reactions that have been associated with this vaccine.

He also said that he is faced with constant pressure to minimize these adverse reactions or even deny that they are due to the vaccine.

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Lymetoo
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I totally believe it.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Maia_Azure
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What's strange to me is vaccines starting out as lifesaving medical interventions. The small pox vaccine was a live vaccine with risks, and as vaccines developed the number of antigens on vaccines has declined and theoretically should be safer.

Gardisal contains recombinant VLPs from a capsid protein. In HPV this protein can spontaneously self-assemble into virus-like particles (VLPs). It was extensively studied, so if MERCK fudged their data that's serious, lawsuit territory serious.

VAERS data reports are notoriously unreliable...they don't prove harm. Deaths or adverse events are reported and can have no relation to vaccination. So readng the vaccine reporting data tells you nothing on the safety...until the events trigger a review and get definitively linked.

So, either MERCK knows, or pre saftey data missed it, OR it's all way overblown and made up by people who fear vaccines teaming up with religious groups who fear it leads to promiscuity.

Either one of those scenarios just makes you lose faith in some aspect of our society.

My friend does work neutering dogs in Mexico and I might have the chance to go, but it involves getting a rabies vaccination. Not sure how that would be with my lyme, and it's so uncommon that I don't think there is anyone to ask about their experience with it!

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Sick since 2000
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Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014

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beaches
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My DD's BF just has this vaccine the other day. I just cringed. I so wanted to email his mom info. There is a reason why people are referred to as "sheeple".
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momindeep
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I had the rabies vaccine due to an unintended brush with a bat...yuuuck...but I do not have Lyme... since you do have Lyme Maia...and have a choice whether to have the vaccine or not...and if it were me...you'd better believe I'd pass.
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Lymetoo
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They are not making this up, Maia. I know of too many cases of damage from this vaccine.

No way I would get a rabies vaccine.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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beaches
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Oh yes, Maia. Let's just categorize and insult people with personal experience, and/or those who read ALL the research and marginalize them as "people who fear vaccines" and "religious groups" and "mommy bloggers" (all your terms). In all my conversations with parents regarding gardisil (pro and against, btw) the issue of promiscuity never arose. So where are you getting YOUR info from? Blogs much?

Really dear, what is your problem? And why are you here? Have you not done your homework on the devastating debacle that is Lyme Disease? If you have, you most certainly are fully aware of all the goings-on: fraud, manipulating data, ad infinitem that has been going on for decades! Perhaps if SOMEONE with a backbone had the balls to stand up way back then, MY children and countless others would not have suffered the way they have and been gifted with a chronic disease.

I suspect you know all this, primarily because you profess to be so well-read when it comes to science. You surely know that the science behind Lyme Disease does not exactly coincide with the conflicts-of-interest and hence the money-making opportunities that are inherent to same.

And because you are a self-described science researcher, it is my conclusion that a logical person such as yourself would be able to deduce that if a governmental agency could knowingly hide blatant truths (resulting in devasting and disabling illness), it surely isn't a stretch to think such deception and manipulation of data could happen with, oh let's say vaccines just for the hell of it.

Follow the money honey. It always leads to the truth.

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momindeep
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Amen.
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beaches
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Yes. Amen indeed.
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surprise
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Beaches, 5 star post.

Too taxing on my adrenals to get on the vaccination threads anymore.

And thanks TuTu.

This vaccine has injured many young women. Shame on Merck, SHAME.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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Looking
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Beaches, right on! Thanks for sharing your insight.
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Tincup
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I've been recently working with vaccine legislative bills- fighting ones that would make vaccines mandatory with no exemptions. Please take a minute to read the following (links won't show here, but all the info is documented at the CDC website).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Currently children from infants up to age six are scheduled to have 28 vaccinations (plus 6 yearly flu shots).

From age 7- 18 children are scheduled to have 15 more SERIES of vaccinations, plus 12 yearly flu shots.

Adults are currently scheduled to have 31 additional vaccinations, plus yearly flu shots (50 or more flu shots in an adult lifetime).

But if you are a man, it is 34 more vaccinations during adulthood plus the flu shots- to age 70.

The extra vaccinations for men are for HPV (Gardisil), the same one that little girls and women were told they needed to prevent cervical cancer and when it didn’t sell (or work) as expected, men were told they needed it to prevent spreading HPV during sexual intercourse.

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www.TreatTheBite.com
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Tincup
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CDC quote...

"... however, no vaccine is actually 100% safe or effective for everyone because each person’s body reacts to vaccines differently."

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccine_Monitoring/history.html

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Tincup
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Before anyone continues beating Maia to a pulp and feeds her to the sharks... sorry Maia....

She said.. "What's strange to me is vaccines starting out as lifesaving medical interventions."

She is absolutely right. That was before about 1980, when the purpose and motive for producing vaccines (rather than using federal research funds to find a cure) changed drastically.

After 1980 money and profits to be made changed the whole scenario.

No longer is safety and effectiveness of a vaccine the main concern, it is who can get to the patent office first and who can support their "pre-work" on a vaccine with federal tax dollars instead of having to dole out their own money for the good of mankind.

Currently the vaccine manufacturers and those standing to profit from the hastily thrown together vaccines can recover the money they invest within a couple of years of sales. It takes that long or longer to put together reports on all the innocent lives that are damaged or destroyed before something BIG is done to pull the vaccine from the market.

To expose these problems- look at the patents and the patent holders with the horrible and failed Lyme vaccine for example.

Many of the names of the people that backed away from their original "Lyme is a bad thing" research (some IDSA guideline authors and supporters) are patent holders along with the university or biotech firm they work for.

The Bayh-Dole Act passed by Congress now (since 1980) allows universities and businesses to patent parts of living organisms, so for example, Hopkins could hold the patent on one gene, Yale could hold the patent on another gene and so forth. They also receive the majority of research funding.

Therefore...

The Lyme definition, the testing protocols, surveillance, the treatment guidelines and everything else related to Lyme coming from Camp A was specifically designed to support a vaccine and the problem here is our lives are in the wrong hands- the hands of the evil ones who don't care and who are only in it to profit from the disease.

Baye-Dole Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayh–Dole_Act

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Tincup
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These are the potential preventable diseases that vaccines can address.

$ $ $ $ $

Cholera
Dengue
Diphtheria
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Hepatitis E
Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
HIV/AIDS
Human papillomavirus (HPV)
Influenza
Japanese encephalitis
Malaria
Measles
Meningococcal meningitis
Mumps
Pertussis
Pneumococcal disease
Poliomyelitis
Rabies
Rotavirus
Rubella
Tetanus
Tick-borne encephalitis
Tuberculosis
Typhoid
Varicella
Yellow Fever

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Tincup
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World Health Organization- "The Global Vaccine Action Plan has two great ambitions. First, to deliver vaccination to all... Second, to unleash vaccines’ vast future potential....

With these two great ambitions, the Global Vaccine Action Plan aims to make 2011-2020 the ‘Decade of Vaccines’."

http://www.who.int/immunization/global_vaccine_action_plan/en/

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Tincup
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A total of 37 new candidate vaccines are currently in clinical trials.

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Keebler
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-
Oh, no. No. No. Thanks for the detail, though, Tincup. Not good to know, but important to know. The media blitz this year was part of a plan and it's not over yet (sigh).
-

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beaches
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momindeep, surprise, looking: this is a tired topic for me! But I just could not sit back and not respond to this one.

I am beyond frustrated that this new person, maia, has been continually permitted to insult other people on this forum. She (he?) expertly manages to slide his/her zingers paragraphs into his/her "scientific" posts.
This person is not intellectually superior to anyone else here, yet he/she continually is permitted to write posts that are extremely insulting to the LN membership at large.

I am smart. I am very well-educated. According to some, I am downright brilliant (family LOL). But I am humble enough to know that there is SO much I do not know. And humble enough to know that the knowledge of others is something I can certainly learn from.

People on this board have graciously shared their knowledge with each other year after year. I really don't know what I would have done without the perspective and knowledge of those here who came before me regarding this awful disease.

And always, always, there is help to be found here, no matter what the issue.

TC, you are AMAZING!! Thank you for keeping on top of Doc J's status and thank you SO MUCH for posting this latest vaccine information!

But there is one thing you are misinformed about: No one here is "beating Maia to a pulp" This person has continually insulted MANY here, which perhaps you were not privy to.

Yes, she is correct when he/she said "What's strange to me is vaccines starting out as lifesaving medical interventions." Of course they did! And who amongst us did not believe this to be true?

However this person has failed to recognize what happened in the decades afterwards and continues to push a pro-vaccine agenda, while maligning anyone who happens to disagree with him/her.

You apparently have not been reading his/her posts. I suspect if you had been, you would not be jumping to this person's defense at all.

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Tincup
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Well, I went back to read some older posts and guess what?

maia is extremely well-versed in the vaccine world. She is using science to support her views, point by point, which is exactly how this is suppose to work.

Just because I, and possibly others, think that the science she relies on is a bunch of hooey doesn't make maia wrong if she believes in it.

It is kind of like religion.

On the other hand, the passion coming from others and the questioning of the science is also exactly how this should work.

Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

We've been burned so many times by the CDC/IDSA/NIH scientists/doctors that there is no way we will allow that to happen again if we can help it.

I posted the info above to show maia some of the problems with vaccine development since the 1980's. Many don't know that angle and I thought it would help explain why it is different now. I know now that isn't going to help change maia's mind.

And I would bet the farm no one else here will jump on maia's bandwagon after seeing the children and adults, including themselves in most cases, suffering so much from the bad intentions that are driving the bad science.

So, let's beat the stuffings out of maia and toss what's left to the sharks. Sounds good to me.

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www.MarylandLyme.org
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Tincup
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OR.... on second thought...

Maybe because it is Easter Sunday we can all find it in our hearts to at least toss her a life ring before the sharks consume what's left of her?

And maybe maia will try to think twice before throwing fuel on the vaccine fire next time, and realize in advance that her "science" isn't going anywhere on this board?

Have a blessed and happy Easter everyone!

[group hug]

Ahhhhhhhh! I just noticed I only have green and black jelly beans left! HELP!!!

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Tincup
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Keebler said.. "The media blitz this year was part of a plan and it's not over yet (sigh)."

Yes, unfortunately. It is a decade long plan of the WHO/CDC's, so stand your ground, ok?

[Big Grin]

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beaches
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I don't wish to throw anyone to the sharks. That is not at all what this is about. This maia person has managed to insult and marginalize every single person she/he has encountered on this board. Perhaps you need to re-review these posts TC?

I just want the facts to be known by all who come here.

I will not tolerate any person's insults directed towards myself or members of this forum and I will respond to same in an appropriate manner, which I have done, time after time.

That said, Happy Easter! I hope and pray God blesses us all with hope and renewal during this holiest time.

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Keebler
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-
Along the lines of truth (a good basic set of links to learn more / have in your file):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8nrdybZZzA

VACCINE NATION - Full Length Documentary (with Fair Use Copyright, 2011 uploaded)

YURKO Project - Alan & Francine - lost their baby

" . . . A swollen brain - brain inflammation is one of the most common signs of an adverse reaction to a vaccine. . . ."

. . . a parent who lost his 5 week old daugher just after her second Hep B dose. . . .

. . . 3,000 people in prison for shaken baby syndrome . . . . [wrongly, for many, as with this father]


http://www.realfarmacy.com/if-your-doctor-insists-that-vaccines-are-safe2/

If Your Doctor Insists That Vaccines Are Safe, Then Have Them Sign This Form


http://www.nvic.org/

National Vaccine Information Center

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is a national charitable, non-profit educational organization founded in 1982.

NVIC launched the vaccine safety and informed consent movement in America in the early 1980's and is the oldest and largest consumer led organization advocating for the institution of vaccine safety and informed consent protections in the public health system.

Our Mission

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is dedicated to the prevention of vaccine injuries and deaths through public education and to defending the informed consent ethic in medicine.

As an independent clearinghouse for information on diseases and vaccines, NVIC does not advocate for or against the use of vaccines.

We support the availability of all preventive health care options, including vaccines, and the right of consumers to make educated, voluntary health care choices.

The "vaccine" link here has many sections, including ingredients, what you need to know, etc.


http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Memorial.aspx

Vaccine Memorial

Honoring those whose lives have been lost or forever changed by vaccination.

They had no voice. They had no choice.

They are the men, women, and children who have died or been injured by vaccines in nations around the world for the past 200 years.

This is a virtual Memorial dedicated to those whose lives have been forever changed by vaccines they were often required by law to use. . . .
-

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Tincup
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"I don't wish to throw anyone to the sharks."

Hey beaches, I was kidding! Sorry you didn't catch that!!!

I did read the past posts and do agree they were unacceptable. Many comments were made that were in the heat of the night.

Just trying to lighten up this current post a bit because I am learning things and hope others are too.

And yes, a nice Easter, thank you.

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Tincup
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Keebler- great site! Thanks for sharing! I saw these reports from folks with bad reactions to vaccines. Heart breaking.

http://www.nvic.org/Forms/Cry-For-Vaccine-Freedom-Wall.aspx

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beaches
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TC, you would think with a name like beaches, I of all people, would get your quirky sense of humor when it comes to sharks, but no. Must've been high tide or something!
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Tincup
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HA! Maybe a full moon? And my "humor" doesn't always go over as hoped. Sometimes like a lead ballon, so you are certainly ok if not following it.

[Big Grin]

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Maia_Azure
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
[QB] Well, I went back to read some older posts and guess what?
maia is extremely well-versed in the vaccine world. She is using science to support her views, point by point, which is exactly how this is suppose to work.

Thank you tincup, for actually being a nicer person capable of rational discussion. Certain posters here are mad at me just because I don't agree with them and can actually provide documentation. They just yell at me, have temper tantrums and try and malign and intimidate me into letting them state things they have absolutely no evidence for. In fact, they even post things that are completely discredited and flat out fallacious. But call them on it, and you are ONE OF THEM.

When people are presented with evidence that opposes their irrational views, that is how they respond. They insult me every chance they can, tell me I'm some secret government mole or have an agenda, and if my patience wears a bit thin with their derogatory and insulting behavior ( like when they made fun of me for spelling mistakes), they jump on that to prove I'm some sort of a-hole.

I'm amazingly patient with their mean and bullying behavior. The last thing I need with Lyme disease is people like that. My crime? Just not believing *every* random website and engaging in discussion and playing devils advocate. One website was bankrolled by people who stoke anti vaccination fears to peddle their own dangerous autism cures. following the money trail goes both ways.

quote:
Just because I, and possibly others, think that the science she relies on is a bunch of hooey doesn't make maia wrong if she believes in it. It is kind of like religion.
That's where you go a bit off base. The thing with science is, it's not a religion. It's true wether you believe it or not. (Neil deGrasse tyson quote). That being said, I've never said vaccines don't carry risks, or that they are all safe. NEVER.

Those are all assumptions put on me by people here who don't listen to me and yell at me and ignore questions I ask that contradict what they say.

Due to my lyme, I'd only vaccinate for something that could save my life. Currently, there is no evidence that vaccines cause autism, all all evidence points to them being overwhelmingly safe for healthy people. Safer than the disease itself.

Doesn't mean new vaccines are safe or we won't find an issues with an older vaccine someday.Doesn't mean Merck didn't downplay risks to their gardisal vaccine. Saftey data so far shows it's safe. If that's not the case, then we as a country need to rethink these companies being allowed to run their own safety tests.

It's also not likely Merck would deliberty release a vaccine into the market if they knew it would maim or kill people, they couldn't survive the law suits. Could they hide small risks? Of course.

If they downplayed risks, vaccine reporting and diligence of consumers will uncover this. But this dilligence has to be based on evidence, not "hey I know this guy who said this" millions of people received gardisal without issue, and most negative reactions have not been linked yet to the vaccine. A lot of the uproar is due to people not understanding VAERS is a passive system. It's ignorance of science and it's methodology. As a culture, we are very science illiterate because it is complicated.

Preliminary data shows a decrease in incidence of warts/cervical cancer with gardisal. More study will show if this is true, if it hold up, and how long it protects you. If it is injuring people and the risk is greater than getting cervical cancer, then it will need to be removed. I would support that and support anyone studying that potential.

And yes, there is a money trail in vaccine development. That's why you see investment in certain vaccines and barely any in say, and Ebola vaccine. Having a for-profit medical system means that those companies will only pursue treatments that they can recover a guaranteed amount of profit after. Profit isn't always bad...R&D loses a lot of money.

Smallpox vaccines changed the world. Whooping cough did kill children, and would cost our healthcare system millions to treat if it was common ( medical supplies, hospitalizations, complications, etc). Chicken pox on the other hand, fairly benign yet debilitating as shingles (personal experience).

A malarial vaccine would save millions in Africa. HIV vaccine would be life changing. These are good intentions.

And that is the crux. I'm not pro or anti. There is good in many vaccination programs, and they can be safer than the disease itself. They can cause complications for a minority and those with immune issues. I'd like that to be studied.

What I'm not going to do is create vast conspiracies in my mind for anything related to vaccination. For most people, it's just a scapegoat, they don't understand it, they read it on the Internet (usually from an unqualified source), and if you try and talk about it or ask them for evidence, you are attacked.

quote:
We've been burned so many times by the CDC/IDSA/NIH scientists/doctors that there is no way we will allow that to happen again if we can help it.
My theory is its insurance. Chronic diseases are costly to treat. There is no money to be made in treating us. Without a paradigm shift in medical care ( ie whole body integrative], how can this change?

Vaccines work in our current model of disease. But if medical care transforms, it would be nice to see a better alternative. We aren't there yet though. The gold standard is double blind placebo controlled studies. Doctors don't treat with intuition and experience, and won't justify treatment without a test first. No good lyme tests mean, no treatment for us.

The mistake people have here is thinking I assume I'm always right. I am completely open to new ideas. They just need to come from diligent, hard working sources. Not blog posts that purposely inflame fears and encourage the attacking of others as part of some conspiracy. And it's really telling that people yell at me, post dubious sources, then duck out of conversation and can't even rationally discuss something.

quote:
Many don't know that angle and I thought it would help explain why it is different now. I know now that isn't going to help change maia's mind.
I will read them. We may have more vaccines now on the schedule, but we actually have less total antigens than we did 10-20 years ago. So it's simply not true that the # overwhelms children. But, if the process is flawed, then that could. Say, less antigens but more reactive to immune systems ( vs live attenuated?).

quote:
And I would bet the farm no one else here will jump on maia's bandwagon after seeing the children and adults, including themselves in most cases, suffering so much from the bad intentions that are driving the bad science.
To be honest I'm not sure what band wagon you think im on. Are you implying that chronic lyme is related to childhood vaccinations? I'm suffering just as everyone else is here, but I'm not immediately going to blame it on vaccination when there is also poor western diet, chemicals, pesticides, toxic drugs, stress, fatigue, viruses, parasites, bacteria, mycoplasmas,etc etc.

[ 04-11-2015, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Maia_Azure ]

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Maia_Azure
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quote:

Originally posted by Lymetoo:
They are not making this up, Maia. I know of too many cases of damage from this vaccine.
No way I would get a rabies vaccine.

The opportunity is great, but with lyme I think a rabies vaccine would be very bad for me so I agree 100%

As for making it up, are you revering to gardisil? I think it's pretty early to tell for that one. that original article posted is really problematic.

Dr. Bernard dalbergue did not work for MERCK. He was a Medical director of a drug distributor called Martin & Harris Pvt. As a distributor he would have no inside knowledge of what Merck was doing with Gardasil. information and research at Merck is highly protected by confidentially.

He cites dr Harper, who actually fully supports the HPV vaccines. She's quoted as saying " I believe that in general they are safe in most women.�"The article claims she is blowing the whistle on the fraud and scam of gardasil, but this is an outright lie.

She says we do not know how the protection from the vaccines will last, and this might affect a cost-benefit decision about the vaccine (meaning screenings might be more cost effective and that risk/benefits need to be more clearly addressed to parents):

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gardasil-researcher-speaks-out/

Dr shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic are opthamologists. Sigh., I read one of their papers. Their writings aren't very strong and studies using the same data found no increased risk for any of
the events noted. Here:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=184421

There are just so many studies that show no link:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X11013831

It's disheartening really, if there really is a danger, why does the information posted misquote researchers and outright fabricate? If they want to be taken seriously and really protect us, they should be honest and provide evidence. The article in question here fails so many times. It's not even fit for print. Shame on them.

I choose to get the HPV Vaccine for myself and don't regret it. For my own child, considering all the arguments now, I'd wait 5-10 years to see what pans out. Independent research says it's safe, but certain aspects need more study. If Pap smears prove safer and more cost effective, then I'm all for that.

That being said, I'm very open to reading any saftey data people have, just not anecdotal internet rumors. What needs to stop is continued personal attacks by certain members. It's been non-stop.

And yes to whoever asked, religious groups are invested in suppressing the success of gardisal. You can google it. This vaccine is a fan favorite of those groups and anti vaccination groups. It's amazingly fascinating, really.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymetoo:

I have a friend whose daughter is on a feeding tube and has severe POTS. They think it's all from the vaccine.

She is 18 and such a trooper .. but very ill. She used to have severe abdominal pain when she would try to eat. They finally had to tube feed her. That's been her life for more than 2 yrs now.

-
Yes, I'm talking about Gardisil.

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Tincup
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maia- glad to see you came back! I skimmed your response, but am too tired right now to respond. I'd like to, but only if we can keep it clean and no personal attacks from anyone, especially ME! HA!

I don't know of any members here who aren't being totally ? (what's a nice word for "screwed"?) every day by bogus researchers, doctors and scientists, including you and me. We all are passionate about the topic, especially after the Lyme vaccine debacle that hurt so many, so we'll have to all try really hard not to slam each other.

Later!

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Tincup
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Please go to this link ASAP- don't know how long it will be available- and start listening at minute 45 and listen for about 8 minutes. VERY interesting!!!

http://thetruthaboutcancer.com/spring15/qa/?a_aid=54fd974f499c5

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Lymetoo
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Very interesting about the definition of polio!!

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Maia_Azure
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
maia- glad to see you came back! I skimmed your response, but am too tired right now to respond. I'd like to, but only if we can keep it clean and no personal attacks from anyone, especially ME! HA!

I disappear when my symptoms flare, I try to respond eventually, before I was sick I was use to talking and debating with people. Perhaps present company is not used to that, and I do apologize if it comes off as a personal insult. Its not intended.

To believe in chronic lyme or resistance to antibiotics is to follow the science. Certain questions about vaccines in particular may not be resolved because we haven't asks the right questions.

It's also easy to see how a group of doctors, in the case of lyme, control the types of "research" that gets published. There can also be bias at the peer review level AND of course, pharmaceutical companies being allowed to do their own safety studies. Science is slow and resistant to change, and $ has ruined everything from politics to the insurance/medical industry.

But, certain topics, like MMR vaccine and autism, are fairly settled. That of course, is not to say that there could not be a handful of cases, or that other NEW vaccines won't pose a risk. But we have decades of research that cannot find the link.

I am hesitant on Gardisil. I may be one of the only people here to have gotten it, so that is why I originally posted. Its more relevant to me. Overall it is safe, studies showed this. But if a growing number of people have adverse events, take it off the market and return to pap smears. In that case, the vaccine may only be useful in parts of the world where woman don't receive routine gynecological care.

Certain members here however feel that their opinion is the only one that should be allowed to be expressed, and when I post something they disagree with, they attack me. We were having a nice discussion and I was asking about peoples opinions on the rabies vaccine, when again, I am singled out like I am some sort of scheming CDC member!

I am fairly calm in demeanor, yet I can be flippant or sarcastic in such instances. I have never called any member stupid like insinuated, though.

If your position cannot be backed up, don't take it out on me. But if you post UFO-conspiracy websites and blogs, yes, I will point that out. That's not me being mean. I am asking for a higher burden of proof. My problem with much of the information bandied about is, its all heresy. "Certain industry insiders" Or like the original link here, full of untruths and taking someones words out of context.

I say, these interest groups need to put their money where the mouth is, and create a study that addresses their concerns. The contaminated vaccine lines with fetal cells is a great example. But, taking a study and doing a flawed statistical analysis on it until you get a result in an random subset(African America men), is not science. Or claiming some random guy who worked for a company that was absorbed by Merck, and subsequently laid off...would know the inner secrets of gardsil is a stretch. Privacy is paramount to those companies.

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Maia_Azure
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To add on, to label me as Pro-vaccine is to not know me. Yes, I support vaccination against the top deadly diseases. Should people be allowed to opt out for medical reasons? Absolutely, Yes. I opt out currently.

As a sufferer of chronic fatigue, I have looked a lot into a viral causes. Ive looked into these:
Chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia following immunization with the hepatitis B vaccine:

Rheumatic disorders developed after hepatitis B vaccination

Vaccination as teenagers against meningococcal disease and the risk of the chronic fatigue syndrome.

Parallels between post-polio fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome: a common pathophysiology

It is also well known that the oral polio vaccine has the ability to revert to a form that can cause paralysis. Outbreaks of vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis (VAPP) have been reported in many countries. The US discontinued use of this vaccine in 2000, yet it is still used in rural areas because it does not need to be refrigerated and probably, $$$.

So yes, vaccines can cause damage. If the polio vaccination program is not carefully planned, its use could keep the world from eliminating polio. Thus combating adverse effects associated with vaccination programs is critical. From a public health standpoint of course, millions of cases of polio to less than 1000 cases of vaccine derived polio, is a win situation. But the adverse events have to be less than the disease itself.

As someone with chronic fatigue, yes our vaccination program at times worries me. Chronic fatigue mirrors post-polio syndrome. As someone who was vaccinated with the Oral polio vaccine, the question is, did it mutate back to wild type in my gut and cause my CFS, OR, in the absence of polio 1,2,3 did a new form of polio-like virus emerge because there was no competetion. I don't know. The good news is, that chronic fatigue is no longer a "pyschiatric disorder" and we may finally get the research we deserve.

Were I to work in that world, I would be fascinated to study what makes certain people suseptable to CFS. And of course, chronic lyme. No doubt a lot of people have lyme bacteria, but they aren't debilitated like us. I wonder what it is about certian people that causes this chronic suffering, and are these people more prone to adverse immunological events from vaccination? If we knew that, we would know whether certain people should not be vaccinated, or if we really need to change the entire idea of how we create these vaccines.

In order to get people to take you seriously, you have to use legitimate sources. I am currently winning against a "evidence based medicine" adherent who tells me there is no such thing as chronic lyme, yet keeps ignoring my asking him to explain monica embers studies and the ones in dogs and mice. That's what I call a ZING!

You have to beat them at their own game. Arguing with a link from mercola, or others, not going to do it. Even if there is a smidgen of truth to it. We should all bounce ideas off each other, but it can be really hard to judge what state of mind members are in, some days Im good, other days I am in a rage. I try not to post in my lyme rage days!

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Tincup
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I take it back- I am not going to respond to Maia directly as I do not agree with most of what she is saying about the gardisil or other vaccines and I do not respect or take seriously the references she supplies.

There is no need to argue, as both of us are convinced we are right, and I don't see either of us budging. Ok Maia?

I will comment briefly on this topic (below)... and it has nothing nothing nothing to do with Maia or anyone here, unless you have a patent or other financial interest in the sale of the vaccines.

````````````````````````````````````````````````````

What I see are vaccine pushers/supporters calling those who don't rush out to get vaccines, anti-vaxers or anti-vaccine, as if those were bad names- and that tactic is used specifically to try to make those who question the vaccines look bad/stupid. Soooooo....

I have decided to refer to the vaccine pushers as being anti-questions.

It seems when they can't convince people to just line up and roll up their sleeves, they are insulted (thinking they are smarter than the average person) and put on a spot, and therefore, they lie lie lie and attack anyone wanting answers to questions or anyone who has a different view point.

They don't WANT to answer even the most reasonable questions because they know if the truth were known they would lose a lot of money and probably be sued too.

Just my opinion....

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beaches
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Yes indeed. "Anti-question" is the perfect description!

You know something is very, very wrong when when you ask a simple question or question simple answers to complex questions, and the "experts" resort to insults and calling people disparaging names.

[ 04-26-2015, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: beaches ]

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Tincup
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Beaches- I rest my case. Look at this. And Robert Kennedy calls the CDC much worse than I do!!!

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/131691?

Unbelievable.

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Lymetoo
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anti-questioners ..

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beaches
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Yes, I saw that TC. Glad he is able and willing to speak up! I hope and pray this makes a difference.

As for me, I will never rest my case because I have children and potential grandchildren.

That, and keeping my mouth shut has never been an option, nor will it ever be. But I suspect that's the case with a bunch of us here [Wink]

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TF
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http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/tv2-denmark-documentary-on-hpv-vaccine-shows-lives-of-young-women-ruined/
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TF
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Starting at minute 14, the two doctors tell how it seems that girls and women who are at an extremely high level of physical activity are the ones who get sick from the hpv vaccine.

They say that at this level of physical activity, your immune system is altered.

[ 04-30-2015, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: TF ]

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Lymetoo
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Wow... that's amazing.

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