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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » bitten by deer fly. dr says they don't transmit anything.

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Author Topic: bitten by deer fly. dr says they don't transmit anything.
LisaK
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on vacation and a huge deer fly , or horse fly or yelllow fly- not sure the mark with a bruise 2 weeks later. im trying to watch for sx. only thing different I notice is a really itchy chest....some more forgetfulness , but I have also been consuming a lot of sugar whch I am allergic to, so that may be it???

im a little concnered. my GP said they don[t carry any disease. I knkow she has to be wrong, of course, but anyone know what they could have? or known to carry or transmit? I coulnd't find any info online really

ugh

[ 08-27-2016, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: LisaK ]

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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TxCoord
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Living in Louisiana (as a kid at Grandma's and as an early 20 something working in the oil fields) I've been bitten by deer flies (and they do, at the least, transmit PAIN!) and by "Green Heads" (their bite feels like a syringe back when the needle was huge! Again, they transmitted PAIN!!).

That being said, there is not much doubt that any biting fly can and will transmit diseases. A pastor friend of ours living in Idaho suddenly developed Guillain-Barré and became not only immobile but lost the ability to swallow.

It was scary to say the least. Yet some smart doctor decided to test him for Lyme Disease when G. told them he had been bitten by a horse fly while helping family move in So. Cal.

The test came out glaringly positive and they pumped antibiotics and put him in rehab for several months while he learned to chew and swallow.

Unfortunately it cost him his pastorate, but at least someone had something on the ball to have him tested.

So . . . yes flies can pass stuff along. Any medical professional who says they can't can either be ignorant ("I didn't know that!") or stupid ("I don't believe that [in spite of empirical data]").

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I have a good time wherever I go!

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lookup
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I have some friends in Idaho that speculate they got Lyme from black flies that bit them while on a bike ride. Ugh They never saw any ticks on their skin. I don't want to add to your worry..just passing on what I heard.
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Tincup
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Please feel free to share with your doctor that the following organisms and diseases are spread by flies. (This is only a partial list.)

Typhoid fever, dysentery, cholera, poliomyelitis, yaws, anthrax, salmonella, tularemia, leprosy (a spirochetal disease), tuberculosis, tularemia, myiasis, Bartonella, leishmaniasis... AND...

Lyme, unnamed "novel" spirochetes, gastroenteritis, onchocerciasis, conjunctivitis, Heartland Virus, and Wohlfahrtiimonas chitiniclastica.

This may also be of interest....

Lyme Disease is caused by a bacteria known as a spirochete (similar to the one that causes syphilis) and can be found in at least nine different species of ticks,

six species of mosquitoes, 13 species of mites, 15 species of flies, two species of fleas, and numerous wild and domestic mammals including rabbits, rodents, and birds.

Horse flies, deer flies, stable flies, horn flies, and others have
been incriminated in disease transmission through interrupted feeding.

A single fly may carry up to 6,500,000 bacteria. Bacteria may be carried in the digestive system for as long as four weeks, and the bacteria can be transmitted to succeeding generations.

While feeding on garbage, or other attractive materials, the fly covers itself with bacteria.

The fly must transform its food into a liquid, and does this by regurgitating some of the liquids already swallowed, such as sewage and bacteria laden saliva onto the food.

The liquified food is then sucked up, but part of the regurgitated liquid is left behind. The fly leaves behind part of its vomit, germs from its legs, and its feces.

Here are some sites where some of the information was pulled. The first link has a photo of a hand with a Bartonella rash is forming after the person was bitten by a fly. This person was diagnosed (thru testing at multiple labs) with 3 strains of Bartonella.

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/tick-borne-diseases/bartonella

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/vector-borne-diseases/flies--spirochetes

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/md-support-groups/after-the-bite/atb--what-you-need-to-know

http://www.clermonthealthdistrict.org/VectorBorneFlies.aspx

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 09-02-2016, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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TNT
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
Please feel free to share with your doctor that the following organisms and diseases are spread by flies. (This is only a partial list.)

Typhoid fever, dysentery, cholera, poliomyelitis, yaws, anthrax, salmonella, tularemia, leprosy (a spirochetal disease), tuberculosis, tularemia, myiasis, Bartonella, leishmaniasis... AND...

Lyme
, unnamed "novel" spirochetes, gastroenteritis, onchocerciasis, conjunctivitis, Heartland Virus, and Wohlfahrtiimonas chitiniclastica.


"AND... Lyme" Phew, I thought you weren't going to mention it! [Razz]


Yes, contrary to what is insisted upon by the CDC and IDSA, Lyme can be spread by biting flies.

Here is a case cited in the NEJM:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199006143222415#t=article


Lyme Disease Transmitted by a Biting Fly
N Engl J Med 1990; 322:1752June 14, 1990DOI: 10.1056/NEJM199006143222415


Lyme disease, first described by Steere et al. in 1977,1 was identified as a disease transmitted by the bite of ixodes ticks.

2 Burgdorfer, Barbour, and colleagues then isolated the infectious agent, a spirochete now known as Borrelia burgdorferi.

3 The spirochete has been shown to be transmitted by a variety of ixodes ticks, including Ixodes dammini, I. ricinus, I. pacificus, and I. persulcatus.

4 B. burgdorferi has been identified in biting flies, and there has been anecdotal mention of possible transmission of B. burgdorferi by such flies.

5, 6 This report describes a case of Lyme disease transmitted by a fly bite.

On July 10, 1989, while jogging with no shirt on, a 42-year-old man from Old Lyme, Connecticut, an area in which Lyme disease is endemic, was bothered by a large fly that he believed to be either a deerfly or a horsefly.

After swatting at it unsuccessfully, he was bitten by the fly several times on the right side of the chest.

The bites were acutely painful. The area around the bites was swollen for one to two days; the swelling then subsided. The patient was not aware of any tick bites in the previous three months.

On July 23, he presented with classic erythema migrans surrounding the bite area, headache, chills, fever, myalgias, arthralgias, and fatigue.

The patient had a temperature of 37.2°C and a pulse of 76 per minute. Examination disclosed a 16-cm by 11-cm rash (erythema migrans) on the right side of the chest, with several small papular areas in its center consistent with fly bites.

No regional adenopathy was present, and no cardiac, joint, or neurologic abnormalities were found.

A diagnosis of Lyme disease was made, and treatment was initiated with amoxicillin (500 mg three times a day) and probenecid (500 mg three times a day) for 10 days.

On the first night after treatment the patient had a Jarisch—Herxheimer reaction, with a fever and worsening of his headache and myalgias.

At his 10- and 30-day follow-up visits he was asymptomatic, and has remained well since.

Antibody titers to B. burgdorferi were determined by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay in the acute phase and at the 10- and 30-day follow-up visits.

These analyses confirmed a more than fourfold rise in antibodies to B. burgdorferi (Table 1TABLE 1
Antibody Response to B. burgdorferi in the Patient and According to Diagnostic Criteria.
). Results of other laboratory tests were within normal limits.

This patient was bitten by a biting fly (an act he both saw and felt) and subsequently presented with Lyme disease, with erythema migrans at the site of the bite. Serologic testing confirmed a more than fourfold rise in antibodies to B. burgdorferi.

In contrast to the painless bite of I. dammini, the bite of flies is painful and not likely to be overlooked by the patient as a means of transmission of Lyme disease.

I conclude that although in most cases Lyme disease is transmitted by the bite of ixodes ticks, it may rarely be transmitted by biting flies.

Steven W. Luger, M.D.
8 Davis Rd., Old Lyme, CT 06333


6 References

1 Steere achéal, Malawista SE, Snydman DR, et al. . Lyme arthritis: an epidemic of oligoarticular arthritis in children and adults in three Connecticut communities . Arthritis Rheum 1977; 20:7–17.
CrossRef | Web of Science | Medline

2 Steere achéal, Malawista SE. . Cases of Lyme disease in the United States: locations correlated with distribution of Ixodes dammini . Ann Intern Med 1979; 91:730–3.
CrossRef | Web of Science | Medline

3 Burgdorfer W, Barbour AG, Hayes SF, Benach JL, Grunwaldt E, Davis JP. . Lyme disease — a tick-borne spirochetosis? Science 1982; 216:1317–9.
CrossRef | Web of Science | Medline

4 Steere achéal. . Lyme disease . N Engl J Med 1989; 321:586–96.
Full Text | Web of Science | Medline

5 Magnarelli LA, Anderson JF, Barbour AG. . The etiologic agent of Lyme disease in deer flies, horse flies, and mosquitoes . J Infect Dis 1986; 154:355–8.
CrossRef | Web of Science | Medline

6 Magnarelli LA, Anderson JF. . Ticks and biting insects infected with the etiologic agent of Lyme disease, Borrelia burgdorferi . J Clin Microbiol 1988; 26:1482–6.
Web of Science | Medline


quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
A single fly may carry up to 6,500,000 bacteria. Bacteria may be carried in the digestive system for as long as four weeks, and the bacteria can be transmitted to succeeding generations.

While feeding on garbage, or other attractive materials, the fly covers itself with bacteria.

The fly must transform its food into a liquid, and does this by regurgitating some of the liquids already swallowed, such as sewage and bacteria laden saliva onto the food.

The liquified food is then sucked up, but part of the regurgitated liquid is left behind. The fly leaves behind part of its vomit, germs from its legs, and its feces.

EEEEE-WWWWW-UUHH....DIS-GUST-ING! No wonder the garbage can ones are GREEN!

.............................................

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 09-02-2016, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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LisaK
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oh my my my my... ugh. ...

now what???

I DO feel very strange, but, I have been consuming sugar and I know my yeast is flairing - raging- because of it. and those sx are similar??? right??

I went to my other alt dr and he only testeed for lyme and it was neg. , but I didn't have the guts or the brains to tell him to check for other things. not sure I want to go back there. it is not a blood test I know other testing can show it too (alt.), but can I get a test on my own? if so, what test? I was thinking bart.... idk, im so confused.

here are my sx:

very dizzy- especially apon waking
headache
dyslexia
"lyme" alzhiemers (again)
uncoordinated
itchy skin- mostly chest and back
louder tinnitus than usual
blurry vision
wierd thoughts in my mind- like im telling myself things- bad things
anxiety is worse
foot pain
sometimes have to push really hard to empty my bladder
sometimes swallowing is hard- like a lump in my throat.

I think that is all.

but like I said, Im also binging on sugar which I am also allergic to (please no lectures, well go ahead, I probably need one since I am being really stupid)

and I am at that "age" for changes, and I have B12 problems and low iron.

how the heck do you know if what is what????? im going insane here. and getting nothing done because I am do dumb and can't think barely

[bonk] [confused] [dizzy]

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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LisaK
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TNT, p.s. thanks for scaring the you kniow what out of me! hahaha... and we all know how tha tmind can make us more sick! I am no good at this stuff. I get too wrapped up. so much great info , thank you!

sometimes I wish I was a dumb as a door nail again like when I waas in my worst tick disease stage. that way nothing bothered me. nothing. but I really was as dumb as a door nail. probably even dumber

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 09-02-2016, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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LisaK
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thanks everyone! I appreciate your responses very much

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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Robin123
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Lisa, my chiropractor said C1 subluxation can cause dizziness. And I know that C4 subluxation can affect swallowing. I see a very good neck chiropractor and he removes neck-related symptoms for me.

Also, have you tried mangosteen brands for your eyes? Can't remember. Mango-Xan works to stop my eye symptoms.

To get off sugar, I did a step-down diet - I ate fruit only, including sweet fruit, while I stopped sugar and bread - ie the stuff the yeast wants. Took me 10 days to get over those cravings. Then it was easier to wean off the fruit.

We have to want to do this and to plan for it, including having the correct food around in order to carry it off, because the yeast are very insistent on what they want. So we have to plan for intervention, otherwise it doesn't happen.

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LisaK
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thanks Robin...I am working on the sugar. it gets easier as you stop it, like you say. I nkow I will be "bad" after trick or treat so I am off sugar now until then.... and my high schoo reunion, haha... everythings gets so bad when I eat it. I am allergic... so my nails turn to layered soft flecks and my skin gets really wrinkled and my hair falls out by the gobs. terrible. im so dumb for giving into sugar!!!!!!

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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LisaK
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so to update in case anyone's interested.....

I decided ennough with my old network of drs that I am used to that have given me years of 90% off (very generous indeed bet...) healthcare, and decided to switch to the other network near here that I haven't been to beacuse of previously having no insurance...

today I was in so much pain from my shoulder- an old injury- and some neck/haead pain from who knows what... I couldn't stand it so my firned said to go to this place..

I did and saw the PA which typcially I hate pas(sorry) beacue they have al lbeen very dumb in my experiences or think they know everything and they do not.

this one was extremely different!! she was amazing. she listened, questined, was thoughtful, knnnnnnnowelegable, surper smart, and etc.... I told her my Gp told me that deer flies transmit no diseases and that i knew that was incorrect, and this one agreed.

finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay!! and so she gave me a test called PCR? I don't remamber hearing about that one ever but it could just be my bad brain forgetting.

she said it was a DNA test? so I need to look that one up, and this test would be for tulameria... and they did other bloodwork. I didn't ask..... so unlike me, but I was relaly feeling crappy

feeling so bad since this darn bite! feeling sx all come back . scaring me to tears. and panic......

so I wil fid out in a few days some stuff.

maybe they will say its' "NOTHING" once again. I sure hope not. I hate hearing that becaese then I look like it's all makde up in my head!

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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