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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » Burgderfor - "Swiss Agent"--old research papers found that never fully took off

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Author Topic: Burgderfor - "Swiss Agent"--old research papers found that never fully took off
me
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https://www.statnews.com/2016/10/12/swiss-agent-lyme-disease-mystery/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/health/2016/10/12/long-forgotten-research-unearths-new-mystery-about-lyme-disease.amp.html?client=safari

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/10/12/swiss-agent-lyme-disease

Super interesting

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Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice.

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Winter Park
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Very Interesting Im taking Penicillin VK which is effective against Swiss Agent, Rickettsia Helvetica. If they start testing for it and effective tests for Bb are released that would help Lyme patients tremendously. It would not be invisible anymore. Then work could begin on finding a treatment specific for Lyme, something that would not be easily dismissed.
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Tincup
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OK. I tried to get something out of it, but I am missing something?

This is just another Rickettsia- one of many Rickettsia (at least a couple dozen or so)- and one of many tick borne infections.

Rickettsia proper has been around since the early 1900's (if I remember right) and they have been finding new strains ever since.

It should be treated with doxy- although overseas penicillin was often used instead in the early days.

So what is so exciting here? Do tell.

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Tincup
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Ah ha!

I looked it up- better late than never. But, darn it all, I still don't see the thrill here. Sorry guys.

In 1993 the name was confirmed to be R. helvetica in a published paper written in part by Dr. Burgdorfer. Originally it was just called the Swiss agent.

It is kind of like (mundane as) Lyme disease, which was eventually named Borrelia burgdorferi. That's nice, but not too eventful, except for maybe Dr. Burgdorfer who it was named after.

Glad to know that some folks feel it is exciting! Me? I'll stick to the ice cream tonight.

[Big Grin]

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Tincup
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This new article says... "They show that Burgdorfer intended to look more deeply into the Swiss Agent, which he had discovered in 1978 in Switzerland, but never did."

It goes on to say... "His former colleagues speculate that he set aside this research to focus on identifying the cause of Lyme. When the Swiss Agent turned out to be an unlikely candidate after all, he redeployed his limited time and resources to other prospects."

If you look here you will see Dr. Burgdorfer's name IS on the confirmation paper and also on the full article, so he must have been involved.

Abstract
http://ijs.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/ijsem/10.1099/00207713-43-3-521

Full article
http://tiny.cc/rchxfy

This new article also states...

"But the papers suggest that he might have gone to his grave harboring regret that he didn’t follow up on the Swiss Agent findings, as reasonable as the decision was, Benach said."

Well Jorge Benach, are you sure about that?

Dr. Burgdorferi became a US citizen in the 1950's and worked at the Rocky Mountain Lab as an entomologist.

Got me confused, for sure. Something somewhere isn't right- and it very well could be me!

[Big Grin]

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Tincup
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The 1993 article states... "It is one of the first strains of this species isolated at the Rocky Mountain Laboratories from I. ricinus ticks collected in the Staatswald, Bern, Switzerland."

The paper only lists ONE person from the Rocky Mountain Lab- Dr. Burgdorfer. All other authors are not from the USA.

With this being the case- doesn't it show he DID work on the Rickettsia strain? Was he really sad when he died as that new article eludes to?

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Tincup
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Who needs to sleep? Not me! There is a mystery going on here, if no where else but in my mind. HA!

From LD.org- "The STAT article reports that both Jorge Benach and Allen Steere now say it is time to take a closer look at Rickettsia helvetica’s role in Lyme disease. Benach says the research “should be done” because public health concerns warrant a closer look."

Well, Allen Steere- now he can be trusted to say what is right, don't you think? NOT!!!!

My bet is he has just about mushed the stuffings out of the research funding trying to prove Lyme arthritis in the knee is not from persistent infection, when we know it is, and he is hitting up the NIH, et al for more funds for something else to do while fiddling away his time.

Background- Years ago I noticed a researcher (horrible waste) has been trying to make a vaccine for RMSF... for not just years, but for over a decade- with OUR tax dollars for his funding.

And with all that money and all that time he never did make one. I'd think he should be retired by now- if not worse off.

Are Bumsteere and Benach trying to get a hook into that money?

As the world turns....

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www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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Tincup
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OR.... is our evidence that Lyme can be chronic so strong and untouchable now that the IDSA chickens are hopping into the fryer on their own to get away from the heat?

In other words, if the chickens need an excuse because some people are remaining ill after treatment for Lyme and their idiot theories are dead in the water- which they always have been- is this "discovery" the excuse they are looking for?

Like they did for B. miyamotoi- "The grant recipients, once strong promoters of the no such thing as “chronic Lyme disease” theory, report B. miyamotoi “causes persistent illness with relapsing fever symptoms”; therefore, they feel information is urgently needed because it is possible that “some prolonged episodes of illness attributed to Lyme disease and designated as "chronic Lyme disease" are due to B. miyamotoi infection.”

OR.... like the oriental Borrelia miyamotoi- that was discovered in Japan I believe, and described throughly there...

Was then swiped out from under those researchers and Russian researchers while Durland Fish and others sucked up funds to study it?

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/tick-borne-diseases/borrelia-miyamotoi

And the beat goes on....

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www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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me
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
OR.... is our evidence that Lyme can be chronic so strong and untouchable now that the IDSA chickens are hopping into the fryer on their own to get away from the heat?

In other words, if the chickens need an excuse because some people are remaining ill after treatment for Lyme and their idiot theories are dead in the water- which they always have been- is this "discovery" the excuse they are looking for?

Like they did for B. miyamotoi- "The grant recipients, once strong promoters of the no such thing as “chronic Lyme disease” theory, report B. miyamotoi “causes persistent illness with relapsing fever symptoms”; therefore, they feel information is urgently needed because it is possible that “some prolonged episodes of illness attributed to Lyme disease and designated as "chronic Lyme disease" are due to B. miyamotoi infection.”

OR.... like the oriental Borrelia miyamotoi- that was discovered in Japan I believe, and described throughly there...

Was then swiped out from under those researchers and Russian researchers while Durland Fish and others sucked up funds to study it?

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/tick-borne-diseases/borrelia-miyamotoi

And the beat goes on....

Tincup- One of my first thoughts was along the lines of your 1st and 2nd paragraph. Saving face for when the truth comes out. What can I say, great minds think alike. [Big Grin] .

--------------------
Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice.

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nomoremuscles
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
OR.... is our evidence that Lyme can be chronic so strong and untouchable now that the IDSA chickens are hopping into the fryer on their own to get away from the heat?

In other words, if the chickens need an excuse because some people are remaining ill after treatment for Lyme and their idiot theories are dead in the water- which they always have been- is this "discovery" the excuse they are looking for?

Like they did for B. miyamotoi- "The grant recipients, once strong promoters of the no such thing as “chronic Lyme disease” theory, report B. miyamotoi “causes persistent illness with relapsing fever symptoms”; therefore, they feel information is urgently needed because it is possible that “some prolonged episodes of illness attributed to Lyme disease and designated as "chronic Lyme disease" are due to B. miyamotoi infection.”

OR.... like the oriental Borrelia miyamotoi- that was discovered in Japan I believe, and described throughly there...

Was then swiped out from under those researchers and Russian researchers while Durland Fish and others sucked up funds to study it?

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/tick-borne-diseases/borrelia-miyamotoi

And the beat goes on....

This was my thought initially, too.

If you look at the numbers that the CDC is now promoting, 300,000 LD cases a year, with 10-20% falling into this chronic condition, that would be 30,000-60,000 US citizens each year who don't get better. If you add up the numbers through years, that will add up to an awful lot of disability payments.

With those numbers, and all the media coverage in recent years, famous people getting sick, etc., the IDSA types must be under enormous pressure for some sort of answer -- after all, they are the "experts."

So when I saw Steere's name, all I could think of was that he is grabbing onto this in order to protect his legacy against the inevitable day when someone too big to ignore, finally says, "Okay, let's go back to the original science and have a look. Because something's not right here ..."

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me
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I hope the case is that they realize they are going to be found out and the truth is too hard to cover up to the masses. CDC has changed its wording on their cite about Lyme in the past year alone:

It now says "Lyme disease is diagnosed based on symptoms, physical findings (e.g., rash), and the possibility of exposure to infected ticks. Laboratory testing is helpful if used correctly and performed with validated methods . . ."

https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/

Previously, it said something to the effect that Lyme is diagnosed based on lab testing, not "physically," i.e., clinically.

I think things are heating up and they are trying to save face. I just hope good comes out of it rather than more and more cover ups digging us into a deeper hole.

I hope the truth comes out, there is tons of research funding in the right hands, and better treatment options are available.

We all have to do our part to be activists about this, if one is capable at the time. This isn't going to change without the heat continuing to be turned up.

--------------------
Just sharing my experiences, opinions, and what I've read and learned. Not medical advice.

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Muscle Car55
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
OR.... is our evidence that Lyme can be chronic so strong and untouchable now that the IDSA chickens are hopping into the fryer on their own to get away from the heat?

In other words, if the chickens need an excuse because some people are remaining ill after treatment for Lyme and their idiot theories are dead in the water- which they always have been- is this "discovery" the excuse they are looking for?

Like they did for B. miyamotoi- "The grant recipients, once strong promoters of the no such thing as “chronic Lyme disease” theory, report B. miyamotoi “causes persistent illness with relapsing fever symptoms”; therefore, they feel information is urgently needed because it is possible that “some prolonged episodes of illness attributed to Lyme disease and designated as "chronic Lyme disease" are due to B. miyamotoi infection.”

OR.... like the oriental Borrelia miyamotoi- that was discovered in Japan I believe, and described throughly there...

Was then swiped out from under those researchers and Russian researchers while Durland Fish and others sucked up funds to study it?

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/tick-borne-diseases/borrelia-miyamotoi

And the beat goes on....

Very intelligent response Tincup, I concur.

If you look at the article Science Alert put out..

quote:
http://www.sciencealert.com/long-forgotten-research-suggests-there-could-be-a-secondary-bacteria-behind-lyme-disease

In response to the new evidence, the CDC is now using molecular techniques to look for evidence of the Swiss Agent bacterium in 30,000 samples from people suspected to have contracted tick-borne illnesses - something that will take several years to get results on.

Then you begin to understand where this recent update on Lyme Disease originated...

This is all the IDSA/CDC ever does, just put old information out in the air like it's new. Then the media outlets repeat the news like they've made progress...

Give me a break, if there was any relation that the Swiss Agent caused Lyme to become persistent, wouldn't you think Dr. Sapi, Dr. MacDonald, and the doctors at John Hopkins would of discovered this as well...

This is propaganda, plain and simple. Then these articles state the Swiss Agent is easily treatable. Look I'm not knocking coinfections, they shouldn't be taken lightly...

But we need to look at the main reason why this bacterial infection stays persistent, which multiple studies have showed this... John Hopkins Study = Persister Cells = Biofilms/Cyst Forms

Case closed, reason why it took Mitomycin C(Chemo) to fully eradicate the bacteria.

Always read these articles and try to find out the source of this information... Which a lot of it hints to the CDC/IDSA!

I'd take all this information on the Swiss Agent with a grain of salt... Maybe it is a causative agent of Lyme being chronic... But I'd say trust in the information from the group and agency which has helped us get better, which is ILADs.

By the way, noticed how the author refers to Lyme as "PTLDS," but then states its "less formally known as chronic lyme disease."

Chronic Lyme Disease is all it's ever been know as, this explicitly originated from ILADS/IDSA

quote:
These lingering symptoms are referred to as 'post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome' (PTLDS) or less formally 'chronic Lyme disease', and there's an ongoing (and very heated) debate over whether this is an actual condition or not, and how to treat it.
Touche Tincup, good investigative work!

quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:


From LD.org- "The STAT article reports that both Jorge Benach and Allen Steere now say it is time to take a closer look at Rickettsia helvetica’s role in Lyme disease. Benach says the research “should be done” because public health concerns warrant a closer look."


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