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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Activism » IT'S ON!!! IDSA is broadcasting (Page 7)

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Author Topic: IT'S ON!!! IDSA is broadcasting
sizzled
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Steere's Lyme=swollen knee...period...
laughable but really depressing

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Tincup
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Actually AG.. it isn't a picture of a knee.

It is a picture of Bumsteer's hard head.

[Big Grin]

BTW- I pity this fly that keeps landing on me.

One swat with the swatter and he will be mush!

The fly doesn't know I am getting ready to take out my anger from the past 25 years on him.

THANKS VERMONT.. and ALL WHO ARE TAKING NOTES!

[Big Grin]

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nenet
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He is saying he believes findings of PCR positivity in "late stage" patients is due to poor PCR testing at the time.

Nice red herring. Totally not relevant to what was just presented right before you.

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sometimesdilly
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fyi- exiting application and restartign worked this time too
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AliG
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He's specifically EMPHASIZING "SUBTLE"?!!!!
(referring to neuropathy & encephalopathy)

HE should have it! JERK! :cussing:

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Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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sizzled
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I feel sorry for that fly! [Eek!]
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Tincup
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njmom "i think he is putting himself to sleep"

HA!

[lol]

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Need Lots of Help
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Bumsteere is bumming me out and steering the panel in the wrong direction.....

Oh my gosh, he sounds like he should be doing the commercial for Visean.

Dry eyes...you know the commercial with the big eyeball that has red blood vessels and then the boring guy sprays water on this big eyeball and the red blood vessels go away..

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Hoosiers51
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seek, a lot of that would be proven by proving encephalitis.....so my guess is it would be redundant for a doctor to say those things when it can be summed up by the "e" word.
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nenet
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The fact that he was given the last word in the testimony group kind of says everything we need to know about possible bias in the panel design, etc.

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sizzled
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He relies on tests that have proven to be totally unreliable...duh!
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sometimesdilly
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wow. i'm special. i have lyme encephalitis and have demonstrated huge cognitive losses and deficits on spect and neuro -psych testing, and actually suffer. so i am very very very rare.

oh wait. you are rare too? hmmm...

IDSA PAnel? I'm here!! count me. and i'm not one of the 10 people that little man managed to find in 10 years.

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nenet
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Question from panel re: circular logic of the two-tier testing model arguments/studies.

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AliG
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TC - LOL [lol]

I'd like to order a sticker too please. Can you make mine say "plant a Shapiro or a Steere"?

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sometimesdilly
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little smirky shaking of head,ah poor patients...


bring on the barf bags.

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sizzled
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Whining...
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nenet
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With the body language and facial expressions, etc., I get the feeling he is trying to sell me the undercoating on my pre-owned car.

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AliG
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He shakes his head "no" when he says ten bands, "most patients with late disease have that".

Isn't that indicative that someone doesn't believe that what they're saying is true?

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sizzled
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He sounds like he is whining...
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njlymemom
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does steere actually see patients....

i am feeling pretty darn LUCKY right now that i don't see HIM

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This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.


The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.

cb

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Need Lots of Help
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That is is the commercial says

Dry Eyes
Clear Eyes
Dry Eyes
Clear Eyes

I can't believe they can even question him, he was so boring I couldn't take much from his speach. Was it only 20 minutes??

But, he did say that he and his collegues has only seen 10 people per each of the 10 doctors in the last 10 years with this degree of Lyme. (the grapefruit knee person)

And he did say when Bb was injected into an animal, they immediately became seropositive.

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seekhelp
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I'm shocked pro-IDSA speakers haven't slammed Igenix yet. I was expecting to hear they overdiagnose people. Maybe they have some self-constraint?
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nenet
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Question from panel: what about the two-tier test usefulness for late-stage presentations?


Steere: blah blah blah KNEE SWELLING

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AliG
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[puke] [toilet]

He thinks testing works in late disease.

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Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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5dana8
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Steere, man he is so sarcastic, condescending & arrogant. neuro involment rare? Has he been hiding under a rock...can't believe my life is in his hands. Yikes [Eek!]

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5dana8

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Gert
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LOL Need Lots of Help....he does sound like the Clear Eyes guy [Big Grin]
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njlymemom
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did he just skirt around the question about
"how accurate is the 2 tier testing" ?? I don't think he answered the direct question....

wonder why [Big Grin]

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This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.


The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.

cb

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Tincup
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Rare.. really rare.

Rarely rarely.

I'd love to know how many times he said Rare.

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www.MarylandLyme.org
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sometimesdilly
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this reminds me all too much of dr. jones' medical board hearings.

facts are explained, logic is applied, again and again, but dealing with reality was never what was going on.

for me, question remains, will this panel allow LLMD's clinical discretion or not, and one added-

will this panel do the right thing and disallow IDSA's literally incredible requirements for diagnosis to stand?

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nenet
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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:
I'm shocked pro-IDSA speakers haven't slammed Igenix yet. I was expecting to hear they overdiagnose people. Maybe they have some self-constraint?

They haven't attacked it because they know the lab has been inspected multiple times and passed every inspection with no issues.

Kind of a brick wall for argument.

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sometimesdilly
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Allan? he is addressed by first name by a panel member? another first, i believe.
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AliG
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Phillips is citing guidelines authors' contradictions in their own authored studies!!!! [lol]

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seekhelp
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Nenet, I know that, but it never stops any docs I've seen from jabbing in comments on the lab. [Frown] It's wrong, but happens ALL the time.
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sometimesdilly
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hope someone is tracking dr. phillips' science here.

i am reduced to hearing : fdk;aLFKLFM F,A,LC;ALMCMCZClk.svc,.

when do we get to see the cabana boys?

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dmc
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my hero now on...Dr.Phillips is kicking butt...he's got the goods with their own studies.
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sometimesdilly
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thank you, Ali and dmc!!!
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sometimesdilly
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ok. what he is doing is called "hoisting them by their own petards"

heh

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sutherngrl
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I am lovin Dr Phillips talking about Steere!
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njlymemom
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this doctor is doing a great job

would love to see the audience faces - especially steere, whose patients mortality is now being reported

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This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.


The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.

cb

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AliG
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Am I understanding this correctly?

Do the references listed on the guidelines actually CONTRADICT the recommendations they made?

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Wonko
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I heart Dr. Phillips.
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jklynd
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I think Sood,and Steere are probably off-camera looking for the nearest open box of "Depends".
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AliG
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REBUTTING THE Doxy/ceftriaxone ANTI-INFLAMMATORY THEORY!!!! YAY!!!!
[woohoo] Go - Dr P - GO!!!! [woohoo]

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Wonko
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A patient had SEVEN LP's???? How awful to endure that just to get treatment.
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Gert
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jklynd - LOLOL
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sutherngrl
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It sounds like a biopsy is almost always a positive. I would be willing to do this for proof. Has anyone had this done?
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Tincup
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Dr. phillips is always great. He knows his stuff.

[Big Grin]

Go Dr. Phillips... GO GO GO!!!

--------------------
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www.DrJonesKids.org
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seekhelp
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My muscle biopsy PCR was negative, but the PCR test was ran on a frozen speciment 6+ months old.
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Tincup
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Hey grits..

you said.. "It sounds like a biopsy is almost always a positive. I would be willing to do this for proof. Has anyone had this done?"

Many of them are done at the time of death.

Unless YOU must have it done.. don't.

Many are negative... and a negative one would hurt you more than a positive one would help.

[Big Grin]

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AliG
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I think I see some Steere on the bottom of his shoe. [lol]

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Tincup
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AG...

HA!

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sutherngrl
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TC you are so sharp (grits).
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sometimesdilly
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phillips is wrapping up.

says no convincing evidence of chronic lyme, etc.,is an egregious mistatement of reality

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Wonko
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Just thought of this--if you use "print screen" on your computer, you can then paste a still into a program such as word or power point.

(sorry if someone else already posted this, I didn't read the whole thread and showed up late)

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lilacs48
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AND then Cowboy Phillips comes along!! Round-up the Steere!!!
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AliG
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Re: the guidelines....

"material misstatement of fact"
"egregious misstatement of fact"

I love his phraseology. [Smile]

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Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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AliG
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Dill- Did he say "reality" or "fact"? I thought fact, but now I'm not certain anymore.

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Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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sometimesdilly
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Q- asked is it biologically plausibility to have persistent infection,and says he beleives the answer is yes.

but part 2of his question do long term abx help, and says, studies say no.

A by phillips- -no definitive answer has been established as to specific abx, but overall, most pts respond well to long term abx, and that treatment is SAFE, and so is desirable, given risks vs. benefits assessment

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sometimesdilly
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10 minute break
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AliG
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HOORAY! 10 minute break & a good place to leave them to think [Big Grin]

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Pinelady
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I second that Gert.

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Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Melanie Reber
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Dr, Steere states that if it is not in your knee then it is all in your head... blah, blah, blah. (sorry, that must have been an objective manifestation. back on task...)

Questions from the panel included:
How do you address the questionable circular thinking of 2 tiered test results?
What do you make of immune complexes based on this testing?
Please comment in IgM and IgG reactivity time of 4 vs 6 weeks?
How common is it for patients to manifest LD symptoms after early treatment?
What is the status of newer testing and should we update guidelines to reflect those?

Dr. Phillips, past President of ILADS, begins by presenting peer reviewed literature that disputes current IDSA guideline recommendations... using IDSA guideline authors' own statements. This includes both animal and human case evidence not cited or evidence published after the current guidelines were published. He concludes with studies demonstrating re-treatment benefits... and proposes new wording that reflects evidence (25 studies) that shows the existence of Chronic LD.

Questions from the panel included:
Can you explain the phenomenon of the seronegative nature of persisting infection?
Can you explain why you believe prolonged antibiotic therapy is helpful in light of no evidence to prove this?

10 minute break...

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mtree
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Just saw Pat Smith...

..you go Pat... [woohoo]

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worrying about tomorrow takes its strength away from today

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Gert
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Dr Phillips knows his stuff!!
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Tincup
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I just saw Lorraine Johnson, Pat Smith, Monte Skull there as the break was announced.

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sometimesdilly
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ali- reality or fact...whaaatt? [Eek!] [Big Grin] [Razz]

i'm living minute to minute here, sweets. (and, nice to see you here agin!)

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5dana8
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wow that last guy was fabulous, he made an awesome case for persistant lyme with other forms like csytic . i think some of the panalists may now know more about the possiblity of chronic lyme.

where wa Pat? did i mis soemthing ?

thank goodness for the 10 min. recess [Smile]

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5dana8

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Tincup
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Melanie said..

"Dr, Steere states that if it is not in your knee then it is all in your head... blah, blah, blah. (sorry, that must have been an objective manifestation. back on task...)"

[lol]

He is hard to swallow, isn't he?

PS.. I know how hard it is to take those notes. I can't do it. Stopped trying.. so your efforts are much appreciated and I will read them closely once this is over.

Thanks!


[Big Grin]

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sometimesdilly
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TO LORRAINE AND PAT:

[bow] [bow] [bow] [bow]

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sometimesdilly
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DANA-

i think - at least hope- that is a good sign to hear one of the panelists say straight out that he believes Bb can persist after abx treatment.

whether he thinks further abx are advisable is the question...

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dmc
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just these speakers left

Arthur Weinstein, MD, Washington Hospital Center, Washington, DC
Raphael Stricker, MD, ILADS, San Francisco, CA
Gary Wormser, MD, IDSA & New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY

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sometimesdilly
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say hello to the 84 guests here in medical! is that a record, Lou?
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sutherngrl
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Of course the Worm gets the last word.
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sometimesdilly
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weinstein begins..

..."if not chronic LYme, what is the diagnosis?"

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5dana8
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who this new guy in gray shirt? i don't recognize his name

is this Wormser?

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5dana8

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