sometimesdilly
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posted
fyi- exiting application and restartign worked this time too
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AliG
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He's specifically EMPHASIZING "SUBTLE"?!!!! (referring to neuropathy & encephalopathy)
HE should have it! JERK! :cussing:
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sizzled
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I feel sorry for that fly! Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tincup
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posted
njmom "i think he is putting himself to sleep"
posted
Bumsteere is bumming me out and steering the panel in the wrong direction.....
Oh my gosh, he sounds like he should be doing the commercial for Visean.
Dry eyes...you know the commercial with the big eyeball that has red blood vessels and then the boring guy sprays water on this big eyeball and the red blood vessels go away..
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Hoosiers51
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posted
seek, a lot of that would be proven by proving encephalitis.....so my guess is it would be redundant for a doctor to say those things when it can be summed up by the "e" word.
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nenet
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posted
The fact that he was given the last word in the testimony group kind of says everything we need to know about possible bias in the panel design, etc.
sizzled
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posted
He relies on tests that have proven to be totally unreliable...duh!
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sometimesdilly
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posted
wow. i'm special. i have lyme encephalitis and have demonstrated huge cognitive losses and deficits on spect and neuro -psych testing, and actually suffer. so i am very very very rare.
oh wait. you are rare too? hmmm...
IDSA PAnel? I'm here!! count me. and i'm not one of the 10 people that little man managed to find in 10 years.
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nenet
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posted
Question from panel re: circular logic of the two-tier testing model arguments/studies.
AliG
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posted
TC - LOL
I'd like to order a sticker too please. Can you make mine say "plant a Shapiro or a Steere"?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sometimesdilly
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posted
little smirky shaking of head,ah poor patients...
bring on the barf bags.
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sizzled
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posted
Whining...
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nenet
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posted
With the body language and facial expressions, etc., I get the feeling he is trying to sell me the undercoating on my pre-owned car.
AliG
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posted
He shakes his head "no" when he says ten bands, "most patients with late disease have that".
Isn't that indicative that someone doesn't believe that what they're saying is true?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sizzled
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He sounds like he is whining...
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i am feeling pretty darn LUCKY right now that i don't see HIM
-------------------- This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.
The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.
cb Posts: 669 | From somewherebetweentherocks | Registered: Mar 2008
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I can't believe they can even question him, he was so boring I couldn't take much from his speach. Was it only 20 minutes??
But, he did say that he and his collegues has only seen 10 people per each of the 10 doctors in the last 10 years with this degree of Lyme. (the grapefruit knee person)
And he did say when Bb was injected into an animal, they immediately became seropositive.
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seekhelp
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posted
I'm shocked pro-IDSA speakers haven't slammed Igenix yet. I was expecting to hear they overdiagnose people. Maybe they have some self-constraint?
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nenet
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Question from panel: what about the two-tier test usefulness for late-stage presentations?
AliG
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posted
He thinks testing works in late disease.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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5dana8
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posted
Steere, man he is so sarcastic, condescending & arrogant. neuro involment rare? Has he been hiding under a rock...can't believe my life is in his hands. Yikes
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posted
did he just skirt around the question about "how accurate is the 2 tier testing" ?? I don't think he answered the direct question....
wonder why
-------------------- This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.
The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.
cb Posts: 669 | From somewherebetweentherocks | Registered: Mar 2008
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Tincup
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sometimesdilly
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posted
this reminds me all too much of dr. jones' medical board hearings.
facts are explained, logic is applied, again and again, but dealing with reality was never what was going on.
for me, question remains, will this panel allow LLMD's clinical discretion or not, and one added-
will this panel do the right thing and disallow IDSA's literally incredible requirements for diagnosis to stand?
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nenet
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quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: I'm shocked pro-IDSA speakers haven't slammed Igenix yet. I was expecting to hear they overdiagnose people. Maybe they have some self-constraint?
They haven't attacked it because they know the lab has been inspected multiple times and passed every inspection with no issues.
sometimesdilly
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posted
Allan? he is addressed by first name by a panel member? another first, i believe.
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AliG
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Phillips is citing guidelines authors' contradictions in their own authored studies!!!!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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seekhelp
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posted
Nenet, I know that, but it never stops any docs I've seen from jabbing in comments on the lab. It's wrong, but happens ALL the time.
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sometimesdilly
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posted
hope someone is tracking dr. phillips' science here.
i am reduced to hearing : fdk;aLFKLFM F,A,LC;ALMCMCZClk.svc,.
when do we get to see the cabana boys?
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dmc
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posted
my hero now on...Dr.Phillips is kicking butt...he's got the goods with their own studies.
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sometimesdilly
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posted
thank you, Ali and dmc!!!
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sometimesdilly
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posted
ok. what he is doing is called "hoisting them by their own petards"
heh
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sutherngrl
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I am lovin Dr Phillips talking about Steere!
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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would love to see the audience faces - especially steere, whose patients mortality is now being reported
-------------------- This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.
The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.
cb Posts: 669 | From somewherebetweentherocks | Registered: Mar 2008
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AliG
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Am I understanding this correctly?
Do the references listed on the guidelines actually CONTRADICT the recommendations they made?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I think Sood,and Steere are probably off-camera looking for the nearest open box of "Depends".
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AliG
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posted
REBUTTING THE Doxy/ceftriaxone ANTI-INFLAMMATORY THEORY!!!! YAY!!!! Go - Dr P - GO!!!!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
A patient had SEVEN LP's???? How awful to endure that just to get treatment.
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posted
jklynd - LOLOL
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sutherngrl
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It sounds like a biopsy is almost always a positive. I would be willing to do this for proof. Has anyone had this done?
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Tincup
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posted
Dr. phillips is always great. He knows his stuff.
seekhelp
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posted
My muscle biopsy PCR was negative, but the PCR test was ran on a frozen speciment 6+ months old.
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Tincup
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posted
Hey grits..
you said.. "It sounds like a biopsy is almost always a positive. I would be willing to do this for proof. Has anyone had this done?"
Many of them are done at the time of death.
Unless YOU must have it done.. don't.
Many are negative... and a negative one would hurt you more than a positive one would help.
AliG
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posted
I think I see some Steere on the bottom of his shoe.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Tincup
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sutherngrl
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posted
TC you are so sharp (grits).
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sometimesdilly
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posted
phillips is wrapping up.
says no convincing evidence of chronic lyme, etc.,is an egregious mistatement of reality
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posted
Just thought of this--if you use "print screen" on your computer, you can then paste a still into a program such as word or power point.
(sorry if someone else already posted this, I didn't read the whole thread and showed up late)
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posted
AND then Cowboy Phillips comes along!! Round-up the Steere!!!
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AliG
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Re: the guidelines....
"material misstatement of fact" "egregious misstatement of fact"
I love his phraseology.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
Dill- Did he say "reality" or "fact"? I thought fact, but now I'm not certain anymore.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sometimesdilly
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posted
Q- asked is it biologically plausibility to have persistent infection,and says he beleives the answer is yes.
but part 2of his question do long term abx help, and says, studies say no.
A by phillips- -no definitive answer has been established as to specific abx, but overall, most pts respond well to long term abx, and that treatment is SAFE, and so is desirable, given risks vs. benefits assessment
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sometimesdilly
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posted
10 minute break
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AliG
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posted
HOORAY! 10 minute break & a good place to leave them to think
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Pinelady
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posted
I second that Gert.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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Melanie Reber
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Dr, Steere states that if it is not in your knee then it is all in your head... blah, blah, blah. (sorry, that must have been an objective manifestation. back on task...)
Questions from the panel included: How do you address the questionable circular thinking of 2 tiered test results? What do you make of immune complexes based on this testing? Please comment in IgM and IgG reactivity time of 4 vs 6 weeks? How common is it for patients to manifest LD symptoms after early treatment? What is the status of newer testing and should we update guidelines to reflect those?
Dr. Phillips, past President of ILADS, begins by presenting peer reviewed literature that disputes current IDSA guideline recommendations... using IDSA guideline authors' own statements. This includes both animal and human case evidence not cited or evidence published after the current guidelines were published. He concludes with studies demonstrating re-treatment benefits... and proposes new wording that reflects evidence (25 studies) that shows the existence of Chronic LD.
Questions from the panel included: Can you explain the phenomenon of the seronegative nature of persisting infection? Can you explain why you believe prolonged antibiotic therapy is helpful in light of no evidence to prove this?
10 minute break...
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-------------------- worrying about tomorrow takes its strength away from today Posts: 968 | From Point PLeasant , NJ | Registered: Jan 2008
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sometimesdilly
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posted
ali- reality or fact...whaaatt?
i'm living minute to minute here, sweets. (and, nice to see you here agin!)
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
posted
wow that last guy was fabulous, he made an awesome case for persistant lyme with other forms like csytic . i think some of the panalists may now know more about the possiblity of chronic lyme.
where wa Pat? did i mis soemthing ?
thank goodness for the 10 min. recess
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Melanie said..
"Dr, Steere states that if it is not in your knee then it is all in your head... blah, blah, blah. (sorry, that must have been an objective manifestation. back on task...)"
He is hard to swallow, isn't he?
PS.. I know how hard it is to take those notes. I can't do it. Stopped trying.. so your efforts are much appreciated and I will read them closely once this is over.
sometimesdilly
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posted
TO LORRAINE AND PAT:
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sometimesdilly
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DANA-
i think - at least hope- that is a good sign to hear one of the panelists say straight out that he believes Bb can persist after abx treatment.
whether he thinks further abx are advisable is the question...
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dmc
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posted
just these speakers left
Arthur Weinstein, MD, Washington Hospital Center, Washington, DC Raphael Stricker, MD, ILADS, San Francisco, CA Gary Wormser, MD, IDSA & New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY
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sometimesdilly
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posted
say hello to the 84 guests here in medical! is that a record, Lou?
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sutherngrl
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posted
Of course the Worm gets the last word.
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sometimesdilly
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posted
weinstein begins..
..."if not chronic LYme, what is the diagnosis?"
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5dana8
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who this new guy in gray shirt? i don't recognize his name
is this Wormser?
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