Well my son says I should write a book about depression. So I'll tell you my experience in booklet form-----sorry it's long.

Try to find a DOC who will allow you the freedom to experiment with different meds.
(Not easily done)

What works for one does not always work for another. I saw a videotape by Dr. Brian Fallon & he said patients with neuro Lyme don't respond to psychotropic drugs in the same way as folks that have just "regular" depression.

Boy, have I found that to be true. It infuriates some DOCS because you can't take therapeutic doses of the anti-depressant right off the bat.

My brain had to have stimulation so I needed either Wellbutrin or Effexor. These both help dopamine (neurotransmitter) stay in the cell longer. It doesn't make dopamine.

Seratonin antidepressants shut my brain down in a hurry. Remeron put me on the couch & froze my brain. Prozac didn't work. Others gave me my first panic attack.

Most physicians will almost always try you with a Seratonin anti-depressant. If it works for you------great. That's what you need.

If the seratonin anti-depressants don't work and you are more depressed--------try the more stimulating meds.

My nerves are still very inflammed & too much Wellbutrin (on some days) will worsen the pain as the med is used to stimulate the nerves.

(Some have said Rocephin & Wellbutrin don't go together ---I agree)

You may be one of the ones who needs to start with a low dose and work up to the "therapeutic" dose.

Again, it just depends on the person.

Don't forget about an old cheap anti-viral drug called amantadine. Read Petra's post he wrote yesterday about it.

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/027355.html

One woman posted she really got her energy back on it. She was taking it as prscribed in Dr. B's Guidelines & incidently has found it's a great antidepressant.

Provigil also is dopamine related & keeps you awake during the day-----it's a narcolepsy drug, but it will give you a burst of energy.

Here's my background with depression in the mid-1990s pre-Lyme diagnosis:

I was desperate for answers so I had a BEAM test done in New York City. That's Brain Electrical Activity Mapping--- called brain mapping for short.

It shows the electrical activity of the brain. It appears on computer as colored areas of the brain denoting differing measures of electrical activity.

(Of course, you guessed it------there were a few white things show up & he said that he didn't have a clue what it was!!!)

They give you a colored print-out for your records. It's quite fascinating.

This is not a SPECT scan which shows blood flow throughout the brain.

This P300 stands for positive brain wave. My P300 voltage was a dangerously low value of 2.

In that range of 2-4 volts, are usually patients such as: cocaine babies, schizophrenics, attention deficit disorders, head trauma or chemical depression.

The normal ranges:
15 - 20 volts are super concentrators

12 - 15 volts are good concentrators

10 volts - probably normal

The meds I was sent home on were: Wellbutrin, Klonopin, and prescription Tryptophan. He advised me to also take an amino acid complex which actually creates the neurotransmitters & fish oils; & good multivitamin with minerals.

I was prescribed a TENS unit (Cranial electrial stimulator-CES) to stimulate my brain l5 minutes twice daily.

The TENS is also for insomnia.

One lead was attached to my forehead & the other on the left wrist.

And yes, it works. This ups your P300 voltage.

Something made me worse----the Tryptophan. I stopped taking that.

Anyway hope that helps some.

I'm going to list some information about this clinic for you or others who might live in these areas:

There are 3 locations:

New York City

Metro-Philadelphia (Penndel)

New Jersey (Princeton).

The website is great information for anyone with depression.

http://www.pathmed.com/p/27,47.html

Sorry for the long post. Dr. Fallon also said on this tape that the correct anti-depressant can help Lyme patients while they're getting better.

No energy is only one symptom of depression or the patient is just sick with neuro Lyme.

By the end of your ABX treatment you may not need antidepressants. But in the meantime, Dr. Fallon said there's no need to struggle trying to make it without them.

Now back to the brain specialist (I call him that) whose website is listed above. Dr. Eric B. has written these books, plus more:

"The Healing Nutrients Within" Hardback
"Path Wellness Manual"

The second good site is by psychiatrist, Dr. Priscilla Slagle who wrote, "The Way Up from Down" in paperback. This is depression from a nutritional standpoint. Good info on her website, too.

I loved her book.

Her site is: www.thewayup.com

Whatever is prescribed, research it so you know what to expect & you'll be ahead of the game.

I need to find somebody to prescribe Amantadine for me------it works & no heavy-duty side effects. (I took it for the flu once.)

Hope you are feeling better fast.
Take Care,
Jan

[This message has been edited by RECIPEGIRL (edited 27 August 2004).]

[This message has been edited by RECIPEGIRL (edited 27 August 2004).]

I take Elavil, it's the only anti-deppressant I have ever tried. I was put on it because I couldn't sleep and for mood swings origionally.
It does help me sleep, but it only had an effect on my mood swings cuz of the sleep.....if that makes any sense.

If I don't get any sleep, I get very hyper and silly. It was like it slowed me down a bit.

The other thing I discovered while taking it, was it helped/helps with pain. I noticed after a while if I stopped taking it my pain levels went up.

It can make me tired in the morning, but it feels so good to get some kind of sleep.

My doctors kept telling me my symptoms were due to anxiety or depression. I went along with them and gave the drugs a try.

I tried Zoloft, Welbutrin, Buspar and something else.

Zoloft and Welbutrin gave me terrible side sexual side effects - which made everything worse for me and between my husband and I. And I just felt lousy on both drugs.

Welbutrin also made me so paranoid and panicky - I'd never had an anxiety attack until I started taking it. I couldn't go outside, I was afraid to drive my car, etc.

My physician's great idea about the paranoia and the panic attacks was that the paranoia/panic had always been there and the drug was bringing it out and I should take multiple nerve pills when I felt an attack happening.

It made no sense to me. Take a drug that makes you paranoid and have panic attacks and then take more pills to counter-affect the first drug? When I could take NO pills and feel normal and feel better OFF the drugs than on them.

Then Buspar made me have weird side effects and I just felt like death on it.

None of them helped me sleep. All of them made me feel worse.

So, I changed doctors. I thought the doctors were handing out anti-depressants/anti-anxiety prescriptions like they were candy. I felt that the doctors were not trying to find out what was REALLY wrong with me and just trying to hide my symptoms from me or make me forget them or make me blame myself for these symptoms. I realized something was really wrong and I needed to figure out what it was instead of just trying to medicate myself with crap.

If I hadn't changed doctors and continued to search for the reason of my symptoms, I would not know that I had FMS or Lyme.

For sleeping, I tried Ambien but I didn't like the side effects.

Flexeril and Amitriptyline are the only things that have helped me and haven't made me feel crappy. I weened myself off the Flexeril since alot of my pain is now gone and I went from 20 mg of Amitriptyline to only 10 mg a night now.

I believe the Amitriptyline is some kind of anti-depressant or something. The doctors never told me this - I found out on my own. But I'm taking such a low dose (10mg) and right before I go to sleep, so I'm not sure if it really affects me that way or not.

My mother has been given Valium and Zanax and ended up addicted to both. She had to go detox for both drugs both times the doctor put her on them.

[This message has been edited by JillF (edited 27 August 2004).]

I was on zoloft for a couple of years but felt like a zombie.

I switched to Wellbutrin and it works very well for me. At least it did, before lyme. Now, i dont know anything that can help my depression. Im stuck.

As soon as i can exercise again, im sure that will be a huge help.

Jordan

Then Prozac, I loved it I took it for 2 years , then one day I realized it just wasn't working anymore so now I'm on

Lexapro...I LOVE IT!!!!! I noticed a difference right away. After trying several others that were posted here somewhere

I found imediate relief- I started on 10mg. Then my Lyme got worse so they uped it to 20mgs. for 6months now and I love it.

I think my children love it too ...I't trial and era...all you can do is try, and maybe you will find one that works or possibly

find out you don't need one after all..good luck, keep us posted. Little"g"

We haven't sprung for the SPECT scan, but I'd love to know what the brain blood flow situation is like for him, too.

GiGi has a post somewhere on lymenet about a natural dopamine enhancer.

Looks like you're getting some good suggestions. I'm glad others are responding.

Minoucat,

I'm not using the CES device right now. It works beautifully on my husband----the way it's suppose to.

If I'm having ear or neck/head pain at all, I don't use it-----that definitely increases the pain by stimulating the nerves too much.

It uses a 9-volt battery and because my brain has changed some with ABX now I don't have to turn it up as high as I did in the beginning.

You only turn it up high enough until you just begin to sense the tiny shock. It's just feels like its tingling.

If you turn it up too high------anyone will get a headache.

What's really interesting is that it makes my voice stronger; it doesn't crack.

Normal folks can use it to up their P300 levels. You only turn it to a low of 2 or 3 for only 3 to 5 minutes at bedtime.

It would be very interesting to see if it helped your husband.

You're right a SPECT scan would help him too. He would probably get better treatment for his brain because they have evidence of what's truly going on in his brain.

After all these years, I'm actually beginning to think my bigger problem is poor blood flow to the brain rather than just depression.

I'll be doing my last 24 Rocephin injections starting next Friday.

I just got off 2 rounds of Mepron & was told to do at least 2 more weeks of Zithromax first & then the injections.

The Mepron made me a mean mommie. That's interesting to hear that Mepron helped the depression. It sure made me brain dead while I was on it.

Everything about my brain will change again when I start the Rocephin/Flagyl/Actigall.

After that----I haven't a clue. I may resort to Bicillin injections. I want my life back.

I will look for GIGI's post about the dopamine enhancer. I know she posted about the beans- macuna pruriens (sp.) for the brain.

I almost forgot.

Here's what I take to increase blood flow to the brain:

1 Gingko Biloba, 1 NO-Flush Niacin by Solaray 500 mg daily, 1 DMAE 351 mg by Source Natural which is the pre-cursor to the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.

I think it was NADH (sp.) that threw me into horrible forehead pain, but it definitely energizes the brain.

Phosphatidylserine helped my brain, but it's so expensive; I can only do so much.

I think something like a Deprenyl would help my brain immensely-----only in a perfect world.

I hope your husband can find just the right answers for him & feel good again.

Here's my e-mail: [email protected]

I've been using niacinamide (to improve blood flow), NAC, EDTA, and magnesium (for detox, among other things), in addition to abx, and I truly think it's helping.

Re Mepron -- our LLMD has us on it for 6 mo. minimum. I get to go off it in 3 weeks, since I've been babs-sx free for 1.5 mo. The hubby stays on and treats for bartonella too. We took artemisinin, as well, which I'm beginning to think is critically important. I had severe sx and was mean as a rabid rat and very brainfogged the first 3 months of babs protocol, (too mean to be depressed, even) then it slacked off, and now I have no sx at all, not even headache, and now I'm as sweet and mellow as fresh-made s'mores. Still fatigued, but it's manageable. My memory and comprehension have really improved, too. Amazingly approved, actually.

So-- if you only did mepron for 2 rounds, no artemisinin, and are still cranky and fogged, I'd say stay on it (and zith, of course) for at least another 4 rounds. The incidence of return of sx seems to be pretty high otherwise.

------------------

I went off the zoloft on my own six months later ( at the same exact time I went off amoxy) and slid downwards more and more for a whole year.

I was put on Biaxin XL and Zoloft again in June and did GREAT, I mean GREAT. Zoloft really did help me with the pain and the head pressure was GONE. Actually, 95 % of my symptoms were gone.

Until I woke up one morning dizzy.. and then remained constantly dizzy for three days. I looked up zoloft and biaxin together and they can cause a not well known but very serious interaction called serotonin syndrome

and one of the symptoms is constant vertigo. The Biaxin will hold the zoloft in the liver and not let it out- which can be fatal. Unfortunaely, my LLMD didnt know this and the pharmacist never warned me.

Moral of the story? I think antidepressants and anti-anxietys are GREAT help, really, they are. I do my absolute best on them, but PLEASE check them if you want to go back on abx.

I could have ended up whacking myself off and thinking I was herxing. I have since had to stop the biaxin for a week to let the zoloft clear, then jump back on my biaxin.

But then I learned that it can screw up birth control, so I had to stop.

I've been looking for some old threads and happened on this one.

I'm in the same boat right now.

I had all kinds of mental problems before I was dx'd and took all kinds of psychotropics. The only one that did anything was Prozac. It made me non-feeling. That was good compared to the terrible feelings I was having back then.

I weaned myself off of Prozac because I wanted to feel again after 3 years of none.

Once I was dx'd and started abx, I never had another depressing experience except once during my first real herx. I had a sudden horrifying mental image that went away pretty quickly.

I'm now starting my 4th month of Babs treatment (Mepron, Zith, Arteminsinin, Prevacid). A month or so ago, my LLMD added Ceftin to the mix. A little while after that, I started having miserable depression.

I'm contemplating Prozac again. My LL PCP rx'd it for me but I'm almost afraid to take it again. I don't know. What about SAMe?

Also, I'm coming to realize that if you've had late disseminated lyme disease, you'll probably never be completely free to never have to take abx for it again. You might have times when you don't need them but I think that we'll probably be on and off them for life.

Quick! Get me that Prozac! I really need it now.

Prozac worked for me last time.

5HTP (over the counter) works this time.

I wish I could tell you there is an easy answer, but everyone is do individual, that just isn't true!

Adding my 2 cents to the thread here because I unfortunately have way too much knowledge about psych meds...let's just say there are a bunch of monkeys swinging around the family trees.

Anyway, my best advice is to:

1) Most important: Get the best Psych who you have heard great things about!!

Of course, A LLMD Psych would be ideal. You want someone who REALLY listens and trusts YOUR experience of your symptoms.

STAY AWAY from anybody who seems to preemptively "know" or dismisses your take on how you feel.

2) Don't hold back on any history or current stuff. This is essential!!!

Many times I have seen treatment fail because of simple lack of communication. If the Psych isn't interested, not the right doc.

3) With psych meds, one size definately does not fit all. Also, don't be surprised if what works for you at one time changes. That's very common.

4) Keep a daily journal, even if its just a simple symbol to show how the day is going/went. Psych, cognitive and physical if you can manage.

5) Because of its effect on neurotransmitters, the Lyme is for sure going to further complicate response to various meds.

6)Don't underestimate the power of natural methods and self care...from long experience I know they form the foundation for the best outcome. You can never OD on gentle self-care and a healthy lifestyle.

Some people find relief with a variety of nutrients, herbs and aminos.

BUT, be very careful about any natural supplement; they are DRUGS, too.

7) As mentioned by previous posts, repeatedly ask about drug interactions; they can be lethal; vomiting foam, having a seizure or stroking out are not fun.

8) Reality test. Ask people who know and love you how you are doing. Sometimes an improvement or decline is so gradual or vague, you don't see it.

I truly hope you are feeling better soon. Psych stuff is really rough. You can e-mail me anytime.

love,
andie

Switched to zoloft 100 mg/day...really has helped on my chemical imbalance & temper flareups! Been on for 2 yrs.

This ia a great thread.

It's like pulling back the curtain & getting the skinny on what really happens when you take antiepressants----kind of a hidden world.

Here's a fascinating article about the link betwen B12 injections & depression.

"A SHOT In Time Saves MIND"

http://www.mts.net/~baumel/articles.html

Sorry, but you'll have to scroll down to the Title & click on that article; (unable to make direct link work!!)

I'm going to ask my new LLMD about taking B12 shots.

My first LLMD shrugged off the B12 shot request.

See also the B12 site about the "REAL" test required for measurement of B12 levels.

The only correct test is: Measurement of urinary methylmalonic acid per suki444.

Here's that B-12 Lymenet link:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/027531.html

I wish my psychiatrist had put me on B-12 shots. Seems they should check for B-12, Thyroid & Lyme right off the bat.

They're so interwined.

Best Wishes Everyone,
Jan