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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Correction and possible explanation

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Author Topic: Correction and possible explanation
Marnie
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I made a mistake a long time ago in my original updated nutshell post...I thought low Mg triggered Calcium influx, triggered angiotensin II, triggered TNF alpha (which I thought was alkaline. It is not.).

The correction follows:

Low Mg triggers calcium influx triggers TNF alpha (protein, neg charge) and TNF alpha triggers angiotensin ( a hormone, protein also).

Now we KNOW that statin drugs (Benicar high doses...kidney caution) OR Magnesium INactivate an enzyme, HMG-CoA reductase which puts the brakes on cholesterol formation in the liver at step #1.

Okay...why would the body want to trigger antiotensin?

Angiotensin is a hormore, a very potent vasoconstrictor.

Why does our body want vasoconstriction to happen?

Good:
Well...vasoconstriction ensures that blood pressure stays high enough to perfuse the kidneys and brain. (But this can damage the heart.)

Bad:
Vasoconstriction caused by angiotensin II triggers the adrenals to release aldosterone effecting the kidneys which results in sodium and water retention to maintain normal BP and cardiac output. (But if the system doesn't down-regulate, the person develops hypertension, high BP).

Bad:
Persistent vasoconstriction caused by angiotensin leads to target-organ damage such as heart failure and chronic kidney disease. Elevated LDL (an "associated" disorder) alter the permeability of vascular endothelial cell membranes, which allows monocytes to adhere to the endothelial cell membranes and migrate under the surface.

The monocytes accumulate lipids and become foam cells, which eventually form the fatty streaks of atherosclerosis. If the endothelium becomes distorted and breaks, platelets are attracted to the damaged areas.

Bad:
An abundance of vasoconstrictors leads to hypertrophy of vascular smooth muscle and vascular remodeling.

Good and bad:
Nitric oxide, secreted by endothelial cells, is a potent vasodialtor that normally stops the damage, but hypertension, nicotine use and excessive INSULIN levels (triggered by an increase in glucose levels), inhibit the release of NO. That prevents blood vessel dilation, and the damage continues, eventually affecting target organs.

Good:
Vasoconstriction assures that the brain gets enough nutrients. The blood flow to the brain must remain constant as the neurons are intolerant of ischemia (not enough oxygen).

Low levels of oxygen trigger vasoconstriction; high levels promote vasodilation.

Good and bad:
Vasoconstriction of veins returns blood to the heart -> raises CO -> raises BP. But the blood is then pumped to the lungs to pick up more oxygen.

So why, once again, does our body want more angiotensin released?

"Angiotensin II inhibits acetylcholine release from human temporal cortex: implications for congnition." PMID 2337775.

Ohhhhhhhhh. Let's block acetylcholine release..."starve" the pathogen which needs acetylCoA?

Soo...back to the beginning:

Low Mg -> calcium influx ->TNF alpha -> angiotensin -> inhibition of acetylcholine release.

If Mg levels were restored...this whole process should be able to be stopped.

Acetylcholine causes vasodilation when, and only when, the endothelium is functioning normally. It causes vasoconstriction when the endothelium is removed or damaged.

Soooo...what do we do? We give Magnesium OR statin drugs ie. Benicar (careful of permanent kidney damage) to BLOCK angiotensin II thus allowing more acetylcholine release and we are cured...if the kidneys can handle it. (If not...bypass them...temporarily...dialysis machine?)

That's the key...supply the body with the nutrients this pathogen is taking from us...supply enough for ourselves (and the pathogen) to heal.

This is once again not unlike what researchers discovered about how to treat the SARS virus:

"Penninger and colleagues report in Monday's issue of Nature Medicine that, working in mice, they found that angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) is a crucial receptor for the SARS virus.

The result is disruption of the body's protective renin-angiotensin system, leading to respiratory distress syndrome as fluids seep into the air sacks. The renin-angiotensin system uses enzymes to regulate sodium balance, fluid volume and blood pressure.

SARS was first identified in 2003, originating in China and spreading rapidly to Asia, Canada and elsewhere. It killed nearly 800 people and disrupted travel, economics and even some scientific meetings.

The researchers found that the SARS virus binds to the ACE2, Penninger said in a telephone interview.

If disabling ACE2 allowed lung damage to occur, the researchers wondered whether providing more of the enzyme would help. They created more ACE2 and infused it into the mice. The result was to protect mice from the lung failure effects of SARS.

It was effective in two ways, Penninger said.

First, ACE2 combined with the virus and prevented it from binding to normal cells. Also, the enzyme protected the mice from acute lung failure.

"We of course need to extend these findings in mice now to humans," Penninger said. "Yet in essence, SARS pointed us to a protein that may help millions of people affected with a previously untreatable disease."

A commentary by John Nicholls and Malik Peiris of the University of Hong Kong said the findings indicate that the potential therapeutic value of ACE2 and angiotensin 2 receptor inhibitors for acute lung injury will be a productive field for investigation.

But Peiris and Nicholls, who were not part of Penninger's team, said there are differences in the way SARS binds with human ACE2 and ACE2 in mice.

The research was funded by the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Austrian National Bank, Marie Curie Fellowship of the European Union, Beijing Committee of Science and Technology, National Natural Science Foundation of China, Joincare Corporation, Canadian Institutes of Health Research, Canada Foundation for Innovation and the German Research Council."

On the Net:

Nature Medicine: http://www.nature.com/naturemedicine

Always keep in mind...Mg is capable of stimulating DNA REPAIR.

M.

Now...anticipating your question...how much Mg is needed:

Enough to make healthy antibodies(along with Ca), to make the hormones, to make and control the enzymes...esp. the enzymes that control glycolysis and the cholesterol pathway and the antioxidant enzymes, enough to make (along with other nutrients) the neurotransmitters...

And once the infection is gone...enough to continue to stimulate DNA REPAIR.

We need HELP. We need the medical community to recognize the value of the nutrients.

But will they?

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 27 August 2005).]


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lymeinhell
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I experienced the power of Magnesium this week.

I've been going for IM magnesium injections every 3 weeks (been off abx since November). I've been feeling quite normal since I started the injections in April.

I felt so good, that I skipped my shot, and held off another 2 weeks. But had been noticing my blood pressure was creeping higher and higher,despite increasing beta blocker dosage. And feeling strange pain in my head.

Long story short, my muscles were cramping up causing referred pain in my head. LLMD gave me Mag IV, bp dropped 20 points and pain went away.

I'm now to give myself weekly injections. So, the proof is in the pudding

------------------
Julie G.
___________
lymeinhell


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troutscout
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Wow.


Absolutely...wow.

Trout

------------------
Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within.
Let the claws be bared,
and Lyme BEWARE!!!
Iowa Lyme Disease Assoc.
www.ildf.info


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oxygenbabe
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Marnie, what did you think of Garry Gordon's answers to my and your queries on his list?

I thought they were very good.

His model for autism fits lyme. I'm watching DVD's---ha, I haven't gotten through them yet, there are a set of 8, from a conference he and Amy Yasko did.

In that DVD she explicitly states, that glutamate is the gun and calcium the bullet, and magnesium reversibly inhibits that (glutamate is upregulated, in chronic infection)

But there is more to it than magnesium...

Email me if you don't mind, if you read this.

Also, I've looked at valletta's patent again and its really unclear how much to use. A friend's doctor talked to Valletta years ago, and adds a lot of magnesium into his various protocols. But it almost seems like Valletta is suggesting constant infusion in dire cases. I wonder if one would consider lyme a "dire case."

Last week for the heck of it I tried, on 3 separate days, 3 cc of magnesium in my vitamin/mineral IV, PLUS my glutathione chaser.

It is useful, but I'm not convinced its curative, because antibodies aren't enough, or even very effective at all, where borrelia is concerned.

However, having discovered I am coinfected with babesia for 5 years...I began to read up on glutathione, magnesium, and malaria (as a model, since babesia microti isn't very interesting to most researchers). Glutathione is really screwed up in red blood cells infected by malaria, so probably also babesia. Low levels of magnesium are protective in malaria infection, but that may be sort of like what Valletta was saying, and it could be, if you used excess magnesium, it might also be helpful.

I'm blathering here...its late and I'm tired...I'd appreciate if you email me with your thoughts on Dr Gordon's answers...


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Marnie
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Jill, Bb isn't the only pathogen that can cross the placental barrier and isn't the only one that impacts glycolysis-cholesterol pathways. (These pathogens damage the DNA and may damage the genes in a developing fetus.)

Can we correct...DNA("ingredients")...maybe...genes(the "recipe")?

For sure...nutrition can help tremendously...even in kids with Down's syndrome...remarkable strides...doesn't eliminate completely, but really helps in many ways (learning, etc.).

I know of 2 pathogens that can do this damage...follow the same pathways...and they are STDs.

One is very common...

Gordon is interesting. Are you familiar with Bruce Lipton, PhD too? He has some curious concepts.

Malaria seems to be impacted by sodium...remember the dogs with neurobabesia who got IV soda bicarb? 1970s...Germany...vets.

Watch for sodium mentioned in various treatments.

Re: Bb...Mg...low dose...often...ie., keep the level slightly up for as many hours a day as possible...after loading doses. Phosphorous and B1, B6 are needed...to "complete" the formula that Valletta used.

This takes time...boy, it's hard to restore the minerals!!!! The "sequence" is important. Son calcium intolerant UNTIL we got his Mg level up...to a point.

We're doing that now with our son...just sent off a "retest" to see how we are doing (mineral and neurotransmitter levels). Neurotransmitters shot...all of them...no nutrients because virtually no beneficial bacteria in his gut. Disasterous. (Food poisoning and append. 1 week later w/abx. following.)Downward spiral, very fast. Cholesterol was 86...folic acid elevated to protect. Testosterone (neurohormone) elevated to protect...

Re: glutamate:

CoQ10 Deficiency caused by lack of other vitamins (like Vitamin B6) the body needs to manufacture CoQ10. If CoQ10 is deficient, nerve cells in the brain and elsewhere may not have the ability to withstand the overstimulation caused by excess glutamate.
http://www.msgtruth.org/why.htm.

Jill, I have a "feeling" if the nutrients are there...the pathogen doesn't mutate or if it has...it might return to its original form. Remember what Rife observed? I also have a "feeling" Mother Nature helps out...barometric pressure changes to destroy cell wall deficient forms. For sure...don't go scuba diving.


The choice of statin drugs makes a difference. I hope it's Benicar...in that class. I'm just really nervous about the dosages in the MP and the impact on the kidneys.


[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 28 August 2005).]


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oxygenbabe
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Marnie, can you email me? I know I have your email addy somewhere but who knows where. I want to discuss it more privately including magnesium. No agenda here (except treatment options) Thanx. BTW I thought his answers were very good and so is their work.
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Marnie
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Edited...added info. above, Jill. Might want to reread it.
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oxygenbabe
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Sometimes you gather information but I don't see the endpoint.
Anyway I hope you email me. Thx.

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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