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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » ABX and homocysteine

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Author Topic: ABX and homocysteine
johnnyb
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Recent bloodwork came back with my homocysteine being a bit high. I think the blood was drawn before I was on ABX, but I am curious if anyone knows if ABX can affect this?

Folic acid to reduce homocysteine? Any other ideas?

Thanks,

- JB


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duramater
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sincerely doubt its the abx, nothing i've read indicates it to be so.

to reduce homocysteine (as long as you don't have the genetic problem, which if you are only mildly elevated, that probably isn't the case) you take the combination of folic acid, B6, B12.

get homocysteine checked again 2 months after starting the supplements to assess efficacy.


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johnnyb
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Thanks, Dura.

Know about proper dosage of these 3? I take a B-50 daily, but apparently it's not enough.

A holistic doc gave me 20mg folic acid per day awhile back for adrenal fatigue, but I read that if you take more than 1000mcg per day, you can deplete your B-12 and cause other problems, so I don't know if I want to keep at that high a dosage.

- JB


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duramater
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A lot of it has to do with your pre-existing levels of B12 and folic acid as well as your homocysteine. Can you provide these numbers?
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David95928
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Don't take this as fact because I don't have time to research right now but...

It's my understanding that high homocystine is essentially diagnostic for Vitamin B12 deficiency. Dr. B has noted that for reasons that are unclear, lymies are prone to becoming deficient in B vitamins.

A B12 deficiency can be pretty serious including pernicious anemia (in which people become psychotic), which is reversible with B12 shots, and partial degeneration of the spinal column (even with normal B12 levels in the blood), which can cause irreversible damage that causes movememnt disorders. Any numbness or tingling in the extremities would also suggest that.

Dr. B., along with other physicians who practice complimentary medicine, have noted that when one is very extremely depleted of B vitamins restoration may not be possible by oral preparations. The same is said to be true of magnesium. I take both IM and when I cut back I experience an upsurge of symptoms within a week.

IMHO any time B12 deficiency is suspected aggressive supplementation should be considered. B12 (cyanocobalamin)injectable is dirt cheap, less per ml. than a disposable syringe. It's pretty benign and many docs will humor people who ask for it. In my experience, it doesn't sting or cause soreness so once the shot is over you can completely forget about it. I can e-mail a couple of things on vitamin b deficiency that I put together by reseraching PubMed a couple of things I put together a few years ago.
David


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duramater
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I disagree david. High homocysteine can occur for a variety of reasons, among them inflammation in the absence of any B deficiency. Also, if a strict vegan, one can have a folic acid deficiency and a reasonable B12 level.

Moreover, if one does have a B12 deficiency, sublingual B12 can be just as efficacious as injection. Also, if one is on long-term abx and wiping out normal gut flora (which makes most of our B vitamins), additions of probiotics can make an impressive impact on B levels as well.

High homocysteine in concert with high cholesterol and triglycerides (and CRP) can have different implications relative to high homocysteine in the absence of these markers but in the presence of B vitamin deficiences. Also the degree of the elevation of homocysteine is also important.


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johnnyb
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Dura, I don't see any results for B-vitamins in my bloodwork. Is there a particular test that would be best to request? My homocysteine was 13.7 umo/L, outside the normal range of 4.3-11.4 umo/L.

David, email me what you have. I am always interested in any clues that might help.

One more thing, would a high level of homocysteine cause any noticeable symptoms, say burning sensations, particularly in the feet?

- JB


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duramater
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Given that you have no data on B12 and folic acid levels, I can only share with you what I had. First, my homocysteine was 21, quite high (women should be below 7). My cholesterol, triglycerides, and CRP were fine.

My B12 and folic acid were borderline low. My doc prescribed, and I took, folate 800 mcg (source naturals metafolin brand), b6 17 mg (source naturals coenzymated b-6), and b12 1260 mcg sublingual (douglas laboratories) daily. After 2 months, my homocysteine was down to 11, and my b12 was high and folic acid was normal. In addition, I took more probiotics (as they generate b vitamins for us under normal conditions).

Now I continue to take the same amount of folate & b6 as before but have reduced the b12 to twice weekly. Will have another set of tests in 3 weeks. Very successful thus far in bringing down the homocysteine and getting the b12 up to speed.

What do your cholesterol, triglycerides, and CRP look like?


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johnnyb
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Let's see...

Total Cholesterol=172
LDL=99
HDL=50
VLDL=23

Triglycerides=114

CRP= .3 mg/L

Note: in the past I tested at 400+ triglycerides and 31 HDL, which I somehow corrected with diet alone. My HDL has always, until this test, been under 40.
I've been taking 400mg turmeric daily, and this may have helped boost my HDL, cause I am sure not exercising enough (no energy, like many of us).


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duramater
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Well nothing stunning there (but do try to get that HDL up to 60 and keep everything else nice and low).

So mostly give the vitamin I suggested a shot, if they are okayed by your physician. I highly recommend testing first to establish deficiency (easy quick little blood test will tell you both your folic acid and B12 levels). That combo made a big difference in my homocysteine levels and, I suspect, that adding more probiotics (I was found to be absent the bifo good bugs and added them primarily) brought up my B vits and folic acid.

Good luck.


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johnnyb
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60?!?!

I am shocked that I got it up to 50!!!
[Big Grin]

- JB

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