Topic: 2007: Hep C Cured by Infection with Lyme, Ehr & Babs
CaliforniaLyme
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Nope, not a joke!!!!*)!*)! ***********************************
1: World J Gastroenterol. 2007 Aug 21;13(31):4268-9. Links
Resolution of chronic hepatitis C following parasitosis.
Byrnes V, Chopra S, Koziel MJ. Divisions of Infectious Diseases, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02215, United States. [email protected].
An inefficient cellular immune response likely leads to chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection.
Resolution of chronic HCV infection in the absence of treatment is a rare occurrence.
We report the case of a 39-year old white male with a 17-year history of chronic HCV infection, who eradicated HCV following a serious illness due to co-infection with Babesia (babesiosis), Borriela Borgdorferi (Lyme disease) and Ehrlichia (human granulocytic ehrlichiosis).
We hypothesize that the cellular immune response mounted by this patient in response to his infection with all three agents but in particular Babesia was sufficient to eradicate HCV.
PMID: 17696260
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Hmmmm.....but are they ignoring the possibility of the TREATMENT for Lyme & Co's curing the HCV??
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Itsy_bitsyone
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too,
Well why the heck would they think antibiotics could cure a chronic infection? We all know that if infection isn't cured in three weeks its all in your head, or you're incurable! Its "cdc positively" counter intuitive!!
Well why the heck would they think antibiotics could cure a chronic infection? We all know that if infection isn't cured in three weeks its all in your head, or you're incurable! Its "cdc positively" counter intuitive!!
You big silly.
Oh yeah....I FORGOT!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Tincup
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Is Harvard chasing Yale?
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CaliforniaLyme
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But Hep C is a FLAVIVIRUS should not be affected by abx!!!!!!!!!!
It is interesting isn't it? What I can't figure out is the whimsical attribution of this miracle to BABESIA in particular!!! Guess we need the whole paper to figure that out- at least I do*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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I just had to write and say that I, in particular, find this abstract just absolutely fascinating.
I say I in particular, because before I was stricken down with chronic Lyme, I was a Hepatitis C researcher, and I actually filed a patent on the idea that antibiotics MAY, in fact, cure Hep C.
(now, I'm not braggin', cuz I was always pretty mentally slowed down by Lyme - I was never gonna win a Nobel Prize - I did research because I loved it - (I certainly didn't do it for the pay)).
You see, Hep C is a flavivirus, but it uses something called an Internal Ribosome Entry Site to start protein synthesis. Well, this system is very bacterial, really, and there are antibiotics that interfere with bacterial, but not mammalian, protein synthesis.
So, it may be that antibiotics could conceivably cure a Hep C infection.
I'm not giving anything away by saying this, because the patent application is still there, and it will probably be denied because I can no longer deal with it anyway, so I don't care if someone else runs with the idea.
It is also very possible that the authors were correct, and that somehow immune activation made the Hep C go away, OR, being as how this was one case, it coulda been a plain ol' coincidence.
trueblue
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And I keep thinking I have to have Ehrlichia, too, to get rid of the Hep C. Darn, I think it's the one thing I don't have.
I'd be curious to know what ABX the patient was treated with. My HepC was brought out into an acute phase by extended high dose (too high) ABX for 2 months. I got the positive B. macroti test the same time.
I also think my Hep C is a coinfection... of course I could be wrong.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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trueblue
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Yikes! From what I've seen, Hep C treatment is way worse than treatment for TBDs. (hard to believe I know.) Additionally, the odds of clearing the virus are minimal especially with a 1 genotype.
I've watched too many try and fail and it's a complete nightmare.
If I remember correctly there have been studies posted suggesting Interferon could be helpful in some way but the Rebitrol(sp?) used with it is nasty stuff.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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david1097
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Hmmmm...
I think these guys beter talk to some older medical types....
It is pretty widely known that in multiple infections some infections will dominate, forcing the others into remission or appear to go away al together... its part of the problem with co-infections, if you don't get the whole gang at once one or more will come back to get you get you when you think you have finished the job.
Hep C might be in the same category.
FYI - some people are looking infection competition as a means to stop a pandemic. The theory goes that if you donn't have a cure, the next best thing is to infect possibile hosts with a diferent infection (hopefuly one that you can control) that inhibits the pandemic infection. It is hoped that this will slow the spread of the pandemic disease.
I had often wondered about this prior to getting really really sick with Lyme.... I never caught any viruses for a few years prior to that point. A few people here also made a similar observation. It no linert the case though....
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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Here is something interesting on competition among microbes:
"Author Summary
Pathogens are generally studied in the laboratory one species at a time. Most exist, however, in complex environments where they must adapt not only to their host but also to other members of the microbial flora. Using a mouse model of co-colonization, we have shown that one bacterial species (Haemophilus influenzae) can take advantage of the innate immune response of its host to outcompete and eliminate another species (Streptococcus pneumoniae) that resides in the same microenvironment of the upper respiratory tract.
The molecular mechanism for this effect involves recognition of a cell wall fragment found on H. influenzae, but not on S. pneumoniae. The response to this immunostimulatory fragment requires Nod1, a host molecule that transmits inflammatory signals in response to specific peptides of the bacterial cell wall. This Nod1-mediated inflammatory stimulation triggers an increase in the ability of a type of white blood cell (neutrophil) to engulf and then kill S. pneumoniae, effectively removing it from its niche on the mucosal surface of the host airway.
Our study, therefore, provides a demonstration of the importance of Nod1 in neutrophil-mediated clearance of bacterial infection. In addition, we have described a mechanism for interspecies competition between microbes that occurs through selective stimulation of host innate immune responses."
Foggy
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quote:Originally posted by mjo: Is Harvard chasing Yale?
Edlow, author of "Bullseye" is at BID.
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Truthfinder
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Actually, this may make perfect sense......
I can only assume that one of the diseases this man was treated for (assuming we know all of the co-infections) was `similar' enough to the Hep C that the Hep C was cured, also. Or, the Hep C may again resurface..... we really don't know the final outcome here.......
David1097 is absolutely correct. This phenomenon of one disease actually curing another is the foundation of homeopathy and why it works.
The first homeopath arrived at these conclusions back in the 1800s simply by observing nature and the natural course of diseases, namely epidemics, and how different people were affected by epidemics.
There are `dissimilar' diseases and `similar' diseases, and this is the crux of how diseases manifest themselves in the body.
Don't be confused by the words `dissimilar and similar'; this does not necessarily express whether they are biologically related. It means that they produce similar signs, symptoms, and changes in the patient. So a virus and a bacterium are not necessarily dissimilar or similar.
Below are excerpts from the `homeopathic bible' that explain the phenomenon regarding the co-existence of different diseases:
Dissimilar Diseases:
``If the two DISSIMILAR diseases meeting together in the human being be of equal strength, or still more if the OLDER ONE BE THE STRONGER, the new disease will be repelled by the old one from the body and not allowed to affect it. A patient suffering from a severe chronic disease will not be infected by a moderate autumnal dysentery or other epidemic disease.''
[Thus were born the first theories about vaccination...... and that's why some chronically ill people don't seem to catch the `local crud' going around, or don't catch colds very often, etc.]
``Or THE NEW DISSIMILAR DISEASE IS THE STRONGER. In this case the disease under which the patient originally labored, being the weaker, will be kept back and suspended by the accession of the stronger one, until the latter shall have run its course or been cured, and then the old one reappears UNCURED.''
[I've seen this happen so often - your old symptoms recede into the background while you are dealing with the recent cold or flu bug, then your old symptoms come back when your cold gets better.]
``Or THE NEW DISEASE, after having long acted on the organism, at length JOINS THE OLD ONE THAT IS DISSIMILAR TO IT, and forms with it a COMPLEX disease, so that each of them occupies a particular locality in the organism......... Thus a syphilitic patient may become psoric, and VICE VERSA. AS TWO DISEASES DISSIMILAR TO EACH OTHER, THEY CANNOT REMOVE, CANNOT CURE ONE ANOTHER.''
``......there have also been severe epidemics of this kind, where, in rare cases, two dissimilar acute diseases occurred simultaneously in one and the same body, and for a short time combined, as it were, with each other.''
[Aha! Does this tend to describe Lyme & Co-infections or what?]
Similar Diseases:
``Totally different, however, is the result when TWO SIMILAR diseases meet together in the organism, that is to say, when to the disease already present a stronger similar one is added. In such cases we see how a cure can be effected by the operations of nature, and we get a lesson as to how man ought to cure."
``Two SIMILAR diseases can neither ...... REPEL one another, nor SUSPEND one another.........; and just as little [neither] can two SIMILAR diseases .......... EXIST BESIDE EACH OTHER in the same organism, or together form a DOUBLE complex disease.''
``....two diseases, differing.... in kind, ...... - but very similar in their phenomena and effects and in the sufferings and symptoms they severally produce - invariably annihilate one another whenever they meet together in the organism; the stronger disease, namely, annihilates the weaker......''
What physicians today do not understand......
``Nothing could teach the physician in a plainer and more convincing manner than the above what kind of artificial morbific agent (medicine) he ought to choose in order to cure in a sure, rapid and permanent manner, conformably with the process that takes place in nature.''
``Neither in the course of nature......., nor by the physician's art, can an existing affection or malady in any one instance be removed by a dissimilar morbific agent, be it ever so strong, but SOLELY BY ONE THAT IS SIMILAR IN SYMPTOMS AND IS SOMEWHAT STRONGER, according to eternal, irrevocable laws of nature, which have not hitherto been recognized.'' ****************
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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But it's not- Hep C is a flavivirus~~!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Truthfinder
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Sarah, "but its not" ...... WHAT?
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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they are not similar diseases.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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How good are the tests for Hep C?? Ironclad?? or not so?? What if this patient was misdiagnosed with Hep C?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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trueblue
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I don't imagine anything is ironclad but...
Toots, I test repeatedly reactive for Hep C. (over about 8 years, so far. Hep A and B come up negative and I have been vaccinated for both since then. They test that I have antibodies but not the viruses.)
The tests are pretty good compared to what we have for other VBDs. (ack, please don't make me substantiate this statement is nearly nap time. )
PCR testing does seem to work much better for viruses circulating in the blood than bacteria hiding in tissue.
The quantitative tests for viral load vary greatly. Only a 5-10 fold increase is considered relevant.
The qualitative test showed the specific genotype.
For me, the Hep C appears to be circulating but not attacking my liver. Are the TBD's keeping it in check??? It 'could' be.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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