posted
Either IgM or IgG positive is positive for exposure. If you have symptoms and a positive test, then it's Lyme.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
I think your doctor should have said, "You should consider yourself lucky..."
Positive Lyme-specific bands on the IgM Western blot panel (i.e: 18, 34, 83, 93 kDa) & NOT on the IgG panel IMPLIES you are in the earlier stages of the disease & your Lyme anti-bodies have not "converted" yet [to IgG].
If you Jump on this (w/ proper, & sufficient, antibiotics), you have a great chance of knocking the Lynme infection out nicely. Hope you've been Dx'ed, Rx'ed & on something already!
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Kete..woot! Thanks. That made me feel whole lot better.
Posts: 56 | From California | Registered: Aug 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- The sooner treated, the better. IgM suggests active infection, but it can be either new active - or long-standing & chronic active.
You do not say in other posts whether you have been recently bitten - or if you've been ill for a while. However, as you had an Igenex test, I assume you have consulted a lyme literate MD.
The test bands sure are telling you something but you need to see a LLMD for confirmation. Your symptoms and history needs to be assessed along with the test. Lyme is a clinical diagnosis. Tests can help but you need to see what a LLMD has to say. And the sooner, the better.
I am assuming you had (or are having symptoms) or you would not have had the test or even found your way to this site. So, be sure to get to a LLMD as soon as you can.
With lyme, IgM Western Blot can be new & active infections (from a recent bite) -- but IgM positive ALSO can indicate a chronic, even long-standing infection that is still very much active..
======================
" . . . But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. . . ."
"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM."
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.
Excerpts: ------------
Meet the players
The opponents in the battle over the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease are the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA), the largest national organization of general infectious disease specialists, (and)
and the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS), an organization made up of physicians from many specialties. ( www.ilads.org )
. . . ILADS, by contrast, asserts that the illness is much more common than reported, underdiagnosed, easier to contract than previously believed, difficult to diagnose through commercial blood tests, and difficult to treat, (especially)
especially when treatment is delayed because of commonly encountered diagnostic difficulties ( http://www.ilads.org/guidelines.html - Accessed April 6, 2007). . . .
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
`` . . .Patients with Lyme disease almost always have negative results on standard blood screening tests and have no remarkable findings on physical exam, so they are frequently referred to mental-health professionals for evaluation. . . .
". . . If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided. . ."
. . . * Clinicians do not realize that the CDC has gone on record as saying the commercial Lyme tests are designed for epidemiologic rather than diagnostic purposes, and a diagnosis should be based on clinical presentation rather than serologic results. . . .
- Full article at link above, containing MUCH more detailed information.
======================
You should also be assessed for other tick-borne infections. Lyme rarely travels alone. You should first be examined by an ILADS-educated LLMD. Then, other tests may be ordered.
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
It's very important to have this book as a reference tool for self-care and support measures. It answers so many questions in detail that is impossible here on the forum.
MAKING THE MOST OF YOUR LLMD VISIT -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
Yes..you have it. I was also IgM positive and IgG negative. You have bands 83/93 which are lyme DNA...no way that is a false positive. You also have band 34 which takes at least a year to show up, so you've had it a while. I had 34 as well.
Good luck!
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM."
++++++++++++
False positives are very rare with Lyme. See the rest of Dr C's Explanation. He speaks to that as well.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
Congratulations!
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
+ Igm is positive for active infection, The IgG response is a later antibody response that comes later on in the course of Bb.
IgG can remain positive even after infection has cleared. IgM is active infection and should be treated especially if symptomatic.
Posts: 747 | From Utah | Registered: Apr 2010
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
Still, jess, regardless of the caution expressed from some more experienced posters above, my opinion is that if IgeneX says your IgG is totally blank (you wrote, "all the bands are negative") AND you have Several Lyme-specific bands positive on the IgM (and you Do)... unless you've been suffering from Lnme symptoms for years.... it really sounds like a 'new' infection, that should be treated Promtly.
I Am surprised to hear your '41' band was negative on the IgG. LOts of cross-reaction with other bacteria there. But a +41 band by itself tells little. (It's the norm, even in many younger, healthy people.)
As far as someone saying the '34' band "takes a year to show up" , I had a + 34 band 5 months after the bite(s), on my IgG panel... from Quest labs!
Anyhoo... I hope the doc who ordered the blots has you on abx at 'ILADS-recommended levels', not, say, a measly 100mg twice a day of "doxy". [See Dr. B's treatment guidelines: http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf ) Good luck!
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Active, yes? New? Maybe or maybe not. We don't have information needed to comment on that.
When did you get bitten? When did you get symptoms?
This could be new - or have you been ill a while? There is no mention of either when you were bitten or when you became ill.
Either way, IgM is ACTIVE infection (whether new or chronic) and you need to consult with an ILADS-educated LLMD as soon as you can. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive.[b] But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM."
++++++++++++
False positives are very rare with Lyme. See the rest of Dr C's Explanation. He speaks to that as well.
read again... IgM is NOT usually a current infection. Can be.. but as Dr C says, ....actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
OH.. but YES, an active infection. Confused now?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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