posted
I do not have optimal thyroid function. I have borderline low T3 and high reverse T3. My pulse rate is slow and my body temp. is always well below normal. This may be a result of the illness. If so, does anyone know if this serves any useful purpose in terms of getting better? Or does anyone know either theoretically or from experience if are there benefits to treating with T3 and T4 till levels are optimal(mid-range, body temp. normal, etc. etc. )?
Sue
Posts: 226 | From Princeton | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Look into Wilson's temperature syndrome, the high reverse T3, borderline low T3, and low body temp are exactly what that syndrome describes.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
DoctorLudite,
But we've never heard any feedback from someone who has tried Dr Wilson's protocol (which involves taking synthroid for 3 months or so to knock rT3 off receptor sites)
Treating KPU may be required to bounce endocrine, immune, and metabolism back
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Cane, that's not the protocol. It involves taking Liothyronine, metabolically active T3, not synthroid, synthetic T4. There is little consistency in what people who post on this site do or take, one takes vitamin D and feels great, another takes it and is pushed closer to death's door, one tries massage or manipulation and is relieved another is exacerbated. You just never know. I tried Wilson's protocol and enjoyed a nearly chill free winter last year, first I can remember. Wilson's premise makes a certain amount of sense.
Likewise I had a old collie that had really bad hot spots when I took him in, and the only thing that helped his hot spots was a burst and taper of prednisone, but after the first taper they came back, but not as severely, after the 4th taper, they were gone. I think that is the way Wilson's protocol works for the thyroid, it rests the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid feed back loop so that it will be refreshed and more responsive when it becomes reactivated.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
Some docs like to treat thyroid and/or adrenals with drugs/hormone. Others like to use just supplements and not get the body used to the hormones being supplied to it.
BUT, I think there is very little debate, most would say that treating those areas will help you deal with the lyme better. I avoided the hormones and went with Iodoral (high amount of iodine) for thyroid and it helped. My adrenals I treated with herbs that helped a little, but a new doc I went to says they are still a problem, doing tests to see what he wants to do about it.
Vitamin D is a whole other thing, where there is real debate. The vitamin D helps the bugs sometimes and helps you sometimes.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have been treated for the adrenals, hormones and thyroid going on 3 years with little improvement.
I do use Nature Throid/Cytomel and in spite of all that, my free T3/free T4 is still at or below the lowest lab value. Until I get the Lyme or coinfections under control, I do not think that is going to change.
I take larger dose of Vitamin D. I used to be able to bring that up being outside a little in the summer, but now I just can't be out with the heat and sunlight. My eyes are too sensitive.
-------------------- Faithful
Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor. Posts: 2682 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by whitmore: I do not have optimal thyroid function. I have borderline low T3 and high reverse T3. My pulse rate is slow and my body temp. is always well below normal. does anyone know either theoretically or from experience if are there benefits to treating with T3 and T4 till levels are optimal(mid-range, body temp. normal, etc. etc. )?
Sue
Hello Sue, believe it or not, here it comes again: Transition of T4 into T3 is regulated by three selenium dependent iodothhyronine deiodinase ise-enzymes. Even if iodine is checked, if selenium is off, this will cause problems. So both iodine and selenium need to be checked and optimised. Good health for you!
Source: Korle J, Jacob F, Contempre B, Dumont JE. Selenium, the thyroid and the endocrine system. Endocrine Rev. 2005; 26: 944-84
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged |
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Sorry Doc, I meant T3.
ya you're right, the T3 would likely reset the endocrine system... but iodine does the same thing (in regards to knocking off halogens who compete for receptor site status)
right?
Plus iodine is anti-parasitic/bacterial
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lots of conflicting information regarding iodine and selenium. In euthyroid sick syndrome(high Rt3, lowish free T3, 'normal' ranges--my problem), the I and Se can cause T4 to just flow to Rt3, from what I've read. The treatment is T3(Cytomel), but I don't know if the euthyroid sick syndrome is helping the illness -- or me!!
Posts: 226 | From Princeton | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged |
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
That's my problem as well whitmore.
Common sense tells me though... if I'm low in iodide... supplement it
*shrugs*
But again... I've never heard ANYONE who's done the T3 protocol (only temporarily)
I don't want to be on Cytomel for life
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wilson's protocol doesn't use cytomel, it uses twice daily doses of time released T3, until 98.6 is achieved, at which point temp is said to be captured and dose is held there for a period, then dose is gradually titrated back to 0. If dose gets to 90 micrograms every 12 hrs and capture is not achieved, dose is slowly titrated back to zero, and the cycle restarted. I didn't notice much of a difference on my first cycle, but there was a difference with subsequent cycles. I was able to keep my thermostat at 62 throughout the winter for the first time ever.
I believe though, that Leonardjio has a good point. You are hoping that the therapy restores the normal TSH, T4, T3 cycle when the exogenous T3 is removed, so making sure the thyroid and other tissues of the body have all that they need to function properly is essential, repleting iodine and selenium is probably important.
You must remove all sources of other, thyroid disruptive halogens from your environment. No fluoridated toothpaste, no fluoride treated water, no citrus flavored soft drinks (brominated vegetable oil), no meds made with fluoride (every prozac molecule has 3 fluorine atoms, any med with flu- as a prefix is made with fluorine, some meds are made into crystal form by converting them to chloride or bromide salts). In short, you must come to understand your total environmental exposure.
Vitamin D, in its natural state, is an oil; some vit. D supplements are white tablets. Vitamin D tablets then could also be bromide or chloride salts of natural vitamin D, and should be avoided in favor vitamin D in oil form.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Earlier when I was sick with lyme, I took a quarter tablet of Thytropin PMG by Standard Process (I think it was twice daily) and after awhile it made me feel like I was losing my mind.
When I first went to my LLMD he was interested in putting me on that or something similar but I refused. Instead he put me on T3, starting with a very low dose and working my way up slowly to determine optimal usage. When I doubled the very low dosage, I once again felt like I was losing my mind. Looks like I was very sensitive to the stuff.
I found an optimal dosage and stuck with it until my body temp was only a degree low as opposed to much lower.
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
| IP: Logged |
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i get so mixed up by the thyroid results
i take armour
6 months ago a doc told me i should cut back from 45 to 30mg cuz of my test results
now my TSH is 0.85 and the range is 0.32-5.6
am i close to high or low???
it is so confusing to me...it doesn't seem i am taking the right dose
recently i am very sleepy during day
have been overweight a long time
have extremely dry eyes
and lose a lot of hair
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would say that a TSH of 0.85 was perfect, but only in the absence of clinical symptoms, which does not appear to be the case, LP.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic