posted
you should not detox until you know the cause of the high bilirubin. it may be from your gall bladder and not your liver, it may be from your meds and not your liver. must have diagnosed further before you do stupid things like detox which could kill you if your using the wrong diagnosis. let the docs take care of this problem not you.
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lymiecanuck
Unregistered
posted
When I was at my sickest, and unable to barely move from sheer exhaustion, a chronic illness physican put me on a liver protocal and he was unsure what was wrong with me as we only had phone consults.
I was on 8 tabs of liver support, 6 tabs of milk thistle by organika, and a liver tonic liquid 1 tbsp a day. It saved my life. I was on abx at the time as well. He also put me on primal defense, and I took 8-12 caps a day. The transformation was amazing. I couldn't thank him enough. I was extrememly toxic, not just from lyme, but other things too, but not dx'd with anything.
Liver supps help the body fight these things, not just protectin for the liver. I have heard that milk thistle has antiviral properties and that even those not sick should be taking it, cause the iver takes much abuse everyday.I am not telling you what to do, I was under the care of someone who knew what he was doing. Just letting you know how this helped me.
Then discuss it with your doctor. He was trained to use prescriptions, not OTC supplements.
The only way to find a cure takes TEAMWORK. This means YOU have to take "ownership" of this disease too. Learn all you can about this disease.
Always...ask a LOT of questions. Learn the upsides as well as the downsides to all medications and treatments.
This board is so great because we are sharing information across the country/world. LLMDs in various states are using various treatment plans and lyme patients are finding out what helps and what doesn't...at internet speed.
Many meds take a toll on the kidneys (bad) and liver. Fortunately, our liver has a tremendous recuperative ability. Very likely you need to take a "medication vacation" for a couple of days.
[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 30 October 2004).]
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Robi, This is something I think Dr. Hart, my guy in fredericksburg, could help you with. You might want to give him a call. Hope you are feeling better, Frances
Posts: 484 | From Fredericksburg, Va USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
Dave, Thaks for the warning...I do sometimes do things "on my own". You are probably right and this should be done with the help of a Dr.
LC, I hope I can find a doc to do something similar to what you did. I am taking milk thistle, but not as much as you were taking. It's encouraging to hear you did not have to stop abx to heal your liver.
Marnie, Thanks for the link. I will print it and take it to Doc to discuss.
I have been learning about lyme since I found out I had it......tryig very hard to retain info.
I have printed out your nutshell 1 and 2 posts and have read each several times. I have an LLMD and I am getting better but you're right.....it is Teamwork.
I never wanted a medical education but I am getting one. I do what I need to to get better.
LymeLady, Yes, I will contact him if I cannot get help from my PCP or LLMD. Are you going to se Dr. J tomorrow? Hope your well enough to travel. Now that they have more blood results hopefully they will be able to treat the coinfections. Are you going to do IV? Let me know how things go.
bpeck
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3235
posted
I agree with DocDave- you need to go over the meds youre taking with your doc.
You could have drug induced cholestasis. I had this reaction to Zith.. it's rare for Zith - but it was very real for me. I had high biilirubin and pale (colorless) stools.
I just got thrashed over on the Marshallprotocol site for even suggesting to a poster with pale stools, to get his bilirubin values checked, as it might be a drug reaction from zith. Cholestasis isn't dose dependant - and can happen on low dose.
Better to err on the side of caution for this type of problem.
posted
you posted previously that you don't know what is causing the high bili count. well find out what's causing it before you worry about treating it. there is no single formula for treating it because it has 10 diffrent causes. you bmust get a differential diagnosis prior to any treatment.you don't treat an ingrown nail by cutting off the finger , just because it hurts, you find out why it hurts ,then treat based on cause. you may have gall bladder problems, very common in lyme, detoxing the stomach will not help with gall bladder problems,so GET DIAGNOSIS BEFORE TREATMENT, NOT TREAT THEN DIAGNOSE.
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Robi, there is an Updated Nutshell post on this board. It includes the Romanian abstract which is CRITICAL for doctors to take note of.
Be SURE your doc sees the % of Mg decrease. (He has to do the math.) It is astounding! It is known a 10% decrease causes osteoporosis. In lyme, the decrease is far greater.
How did giving Mg...along with abx. work? Why?
They produced a LOT of hydrogen (little mineral, lot of acids) ...got it INTO the cells, INactivated PFK. They restored the balance. This helps in MANY ways since Mg is vital to soooooo many things.
BTW, this was discussed a long time ago...milk thistle is in ER's in Germany to treat mushroom poisoning (toxins). Germans love to go into the woods to pick mushrooms. Sometimes they pick the wrong ones.
Just a bit of trivia.
Once again, it is very LIKELY you simply have to take a "medication vacation" for a couple of days. Your liver has been working "overtime" to counter the toxins from the cell walls of Bb that it is knocking out.
Bowen lab seldom sees anything but CWD forms. These CWD forms are on their way out.
Find info. "Protein in Virus kills bacteria":
"The virus, called Q Beta, attacks bacteria only. It allows the bacteria cells to divide without reproducing their cell walls, causing the bacteria to self destruct."
No cell walls = self destruct.
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
up for bpeck to see #'s (and other comments)
Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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