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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Old files...re: Mg, K, Na, etc. the "interplay"

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Author Topic: Old files...re: Mg, K, Na, etc. the "interplay"
Marnie
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The paper summarized a study Delbet made of the effect on body cells of various known solutions Used to dress wounds, in order to find a better solution. He mixed in test tubes white corpuscles, microbes, and the solution to be tested, then studied the destruction of foreign bodies by the white cells after a lapse of 20 minutes. He used 16,000 white blood cells and 19,716 microbes.

Of the solutions studied, potassium permanganate and Labarraque's solution destroyed the red and white corpuscles to such an extent that it was impossible to recognize anything in the preparations. A similar effect was noted with Formalin.

Other solutions were less destructive. These included hydrogen peroxide, phenolic acid, Gram's solution, and cyanide of mercury. Sodium chloride was somewhat better.

Tests showed that, as antiseptics, these solutions were inadequate. The problem was to kill the microbes without killing the blood cells.

Since table salt (sodium chloride) showed up best in all these tests, various solutions of this type were tested but did not compare with the effectiveness of magnesium chloride. Delbet says, "A solution of magnesium chloride at 12.1 parts per 1,000 gave extraordinary results.

It increased the proportion of phagocytosis [killing microbes] by 75 per cent as compared with the solution of sodium chloride at 8 parts per 1,000 which itself gave 63 per cent more than the Locke-Ringer's solution.

The increase is based on the number of polynucleates [white cells] as well as the phagocytic [germ-destroying] power of each of them.

"These experiments prove that a solution of desiccated chloride of magnesium at 12.1 parts per 1,000 has a special effect on the white corpuscles, which is not the case with either physiological serum [a solution of chloride of sodium at seven parts per 1,000] or seawater, or the solution of Locke-Ringer which was considered best for maintaining the activity of cells.

"Consequently, a solution of chloride of magnesium was better than all the solutions previously used in the washing and dressing of wounds."
www.mgwater.com/rod04.shtml

Excess Vitamin C May Worsen Osteoarthritis
Kraus, V. Arthritis & Rheumatism, June 2004; vol 50: pp 1822-1831.

Magnesium helps maintain the potassium in the cells, but the sodium and potassium balance is as finely tuned as those of calcium and phosphorus or calcium and magnesium.
www.healthy.net/library/books/haas/minerals/k.htm


Amiloride can be used for low magnesium because it
increases kidney reabsorption. If somebody has low
magnesium and you can't give them enough magnesium orally
because of laxative action, amiloride is an option.
http://www.chfpatients.com/text/diuretics.txt

(Potassium-sparing(K-sparing) diuretics, such as amiloride )

***********

For example, as more acid accumulates in our body, it gets stored and pushed further, and ultimately it gets pushed into the cell. When it gets pushed into the cell, the first thing it does is displace potassium and then magnesium and then sodium.

***Those are three critical minerals in our body. The potassium and magnesium will leave the body, but as a preservation mechanism the sodium will be retained.

When you run an acidic condition in the body, free calcium is in excess which stimulates the SNS, magnesium isn't around to offer a balance; potassium is depleted so the PSNS is not getting stimulated to offset the SNS and it is actually being further inhibited by sodium which the body is hanging onto with respect to the loss of potassium and magnesium.

What does this give you? A person that is acidic, hyperactive, quick to anger, moving too fast, burning out. Just what you'd expect from somebody running too acidic. And pushed to the extreme? You get a person that may appear as extreme PSNS dominant, i.e. lethargic, fatigued, but what you usually have is a person pushed beyond SNS dominance to outright exhaustion.

With rising alkalinity, blood can increase its oxygen uptake, therefore the blood cells can hold more oxygen.

The Bohr effect states that with rising blood alkalinity, the red blood cells can saturate themselves with ever more oxygen. The problem is, they can't let go of it. If the blood cells can't let go of oxygen, then the oxygen isn't getting down to the other cells of the body. And many pathogens and cancer grow in an oxygen deficient environment.

We have alkaline blood due to the fact we have increasingly acidic tissue and/or cells occurring somewhere in our body. We have an alkaline blood which can't let go of its oxygen to aerate an increasingly acidic environment.

Here we have an acidic environment with no oxygen. How can anything survive in this environment? Through anaerobic fermentation.

What ferments anaerobically (i.e. without oxygen)? Yeast, fungus, intracellular bacteria, and virus. Microbes will change dependent upon their environment.

http://www.cfsdoc.org/biological_terrain.htm (chronic fatigue website)

How Mg and K work together:

We get heart attacks because we do not have enough magnesium in our blood stream. Magnesium dilates blood vessels, ***aids potassium absorption***, acts as a natural blood thinner, and keeps your blood cells from clumping together causing thrombosis (clotting).
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/Newsletters/01_Feb_1.htm.

: Acta Physiol Scand. 1996 Mar;156(3):305-11. Related Articles, Links


Effects of K+, Mg2+ deficiency and adrenal steroids on Na+, K(+)-pump concentration in skeletal muscle.

Dorup I.

Institute of Physiology, University of Aarbus, Denmark.

Animal studies have shown that deficiency of K+ is associated with a reduction in the concentration of Na+, K+ pumps in skeletal muscle, and that this reduction is closely correlated with the reduction in the muscle K+ concentration.

Furthermore, animals deficient in Mg+ show a downregulation of the Na+, K(+)-pump concentration, but this seems to be secondary to the concomitant K+ deficiency, which often accompanies Mg2+ deficiency. Measurements on skeletal muscle biopsies from patients who had been in long-term treatment with diuretics showed that 55% had reduced concentrations of both K+ and Mg2+, and that this was associated with a reduction in the concentration of Na+, K+ pumps.

Furthermore, the Na+, K(+)-pump concentration correlated significantly with both muscle K+ and Mg2+, suggesting that the downregulation of the Na+, K+ pumps was related to the loss of K+, as predicted from the animal experiments.

In accordance with this, normalization of muscle K+ and Mg2+ in response to oral Mg2+ supplementation, resulted in a restoration of the Na+, K+ pumps. Apart from thyroid hormone, which is another major regulator for the Na+, K(+)-pump concentration, other hormones may be of importance.

It is well known that adrenal steroids control the synthesis of Na+, K+ pumps in the kidney and heart. Recently, treatment with dexamethasone was found to increase the Na+, K(+)-pump concentration in rat skeletal muscle. The increase was found in EDL, soleus, gastrocnemius and diaphragm muscles, and amounted to 23-52%.

In contrast, treatment with aldosterone induced a decrease in the Na+, K(+)-pump concentration, which was closely correlated to the reduced K+ content of the muscles.

The results indicate that in skeletal muscle, high doses of glucocorticoids upregulate the concentration of Na+, K+ pumps, whereas mineralocorticoids induce a downregulation which is secondary to the concomitant K+ deficiency.

PMID: 8729691

: Miner Electrolyte Metab. 1993;19(4-5):290-5. Related Articles, Links


Interrelationships of magnesium and potassium homeostasis.

Ryan MP.

Department of Pharmacology, University College Dublin, Ireland.

The interrelationships of magnesium (Mg) and potassium (K) homeostasis are reviewed. Evidence from clinical and experimental studies including whole animal and cell culture experiments indicate that (1) homeostasis of Mg and K are closely related in the whole organism, (2) deficiencies of Mg and K frequently co-exist with gastrointestinal and especially renal losses from diuretic and nephrotoxic drug treatment being mainly responsible, and (3) Mg is required for maintenance of normal cellular K.

Evidence from many laboratories indicate that Mg has direct effects at a cellular level on K transport. These include effects on Na-K-ATPase, Na-K-Cl cotransport, K channels, charge screening and permeability effects on membranes. New data on positive correlations between Mg and K in cardiac tissue, skeletal muscle and lymphocytes from patients undergoing cardiopulmonary bypass are presented.

Interrelationships in Mg and K in cardiac tissue have probably the greatest clinical significance in terms of arrhythmias, digoxin toxicity, and myocardial infarction. Future studies will be aimed at elucidating mechanisms of Mg-K interrelationships at a cellular level using new techniques with the ability to detect concentrations and modulations of free intracellular Mg.

PMID: 8264516

``Potassium is very important in magnesium metabolism. Few of us get enough potassium unless we frequently eat bananas and potatoes and use Morton's Lite Salt. Morton's Lite Salt contains balanced equimolar sodium chloride and potassium chloride.

These minerals should be consumed together because they determine the body's electrolyte balance, which regulates water levels. Eating a lot of salty food disrupts this balance and harmfully lowers magnesium concentrations. This not only produces high blood pressure, but also affects neurotransmitter levels, producing depression and PMS.

In addition, the misuse of diuretics, or "water pills," can lead to potassium deficiency, which in turn can manifest itself as depression.''
http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html

ATP needs magnesium. Cation pump, if magnesium is okay, K and Ca go in and sodium out. If magnesium is low, potassium cannot get in and the sodium cannot get out
http://www.smithsez.com/Nutritionfacts.html


Hypokalemia has clinically diverse manifestatons and at times can even mimic diseases like acute poliomyelitis and post diphtheritic paralysis,

Potassium deficit usually affects the excitability of nerve and muscles and contractility of skeletol, smooth and cardiac muscles(6). Hypokalemia is more likely to develop in malnourished children due to pre-existing potassium depletion
http://www.indianpediatrics.net/99nov10.htm

General Statement Potassium is the major cation of the body's intracellular fluid. It is essential for the maintenance of important physiologic processes, including cardiac, smooth, and skeletal muscle function, acid-base balance, gastric secretions, renal function, protein and carbohydrate metabolism.

Symptoms of hypokalemia include weakness, cardiac arrhythmias, fatigue, ileus, hyporeflexia or areflexia, tetany, polydipsia, and, in severe cases, flaccid paralysis and inability to concentrate urine. Loss of potassium is usually accompanied by a loss of chloride resulting in hypochloremic metabolic alkalosis.
The usual adult daily requirement of potassium is 40-80 mg.

In adults, the normal extracellular concentration of potassium ranges from 3.5 to 5 mEq/L with the intracellular levels being 150-160 mEq/L. Extracellular concentrations of up to 5.6 mEq/L are normal in children.
Both hypokalemia and hyperkalemia, if uncorrected, can be fatal; thus, potassium must always be administered cautiously.
http://www.nursespdr.com/members/database/ndrhtml/potassiumsaltspotassiumacetateparenteral.html

Symptoms, Signs, and Diagnosis

Severe hypokalemia (plasma K < 3 mEq/L) may produce muscle weakness and lead to paralysis and respiratory failure. Other muscular dysfunction includes muscle cramping, fasciculations, paralytic ileus, hypoventilation, hypotension, tetany, and rhabdomyolysis.

Persistent hypokalemia can impair renal concentrating ability, producing polyuria with secondary polydipsia. Metabolic alkalosis is often present, although hypokalemia can also occur with metabolic acidosis as in diarrhea or renal tubular acidosis. Generally, GFR, water, and Na balance are unaffected by hypokalemia. However, a state resembling nephrogenic diabetes insipidus can occur with severe K depletion.
http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section2/chapter12/12c.htm

magnesium, which is necessary for potassium absorption [Kremer].

Also vitamin D is necessary for magnesium reabsorption in the kidneys [Ritchie] which magnesium in turn is necessary for powering some of the electrolyte pumps, so it could easily be having an indirect affect on potassium in many cases

decline in cortisol during a potassium deficiency
http://members.tripod.com/~charles_W/arthritis.html



Posts: 9430 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Melanie Reber
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Hi Marnie,

I just asked this on the other thread...but in case you don't get back to it, thought I would repeate it here.

I just began taking K-tabs last week to go with a Diamox Rx...do you think that the water retention might have any relation to the increase in potassium?

Thanks!

------------------
C O L O R A D O * S U P P O R T * S Y S T E M
[email protected]


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hiker53
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So magnesium chloride might be a good form of mag to take orally (since I have no I.V.), but is it hard on the stomach?

Since I am on the candida diet I do not eat bananas. My daily vitamin has 80 mg potassium. Is that enough for someone with Lyme and yeast?


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hiker53
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oops

[This message has been edited by hiker53 (edited 03 July 2005).]


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