posted
I have been under treatment for lyme for three years and usually doing well. This past two months I am unable to walk. Both Knees are swollen and stiff and lock and are unstable.
I went for a MRI and results show torn laterarl miniscus in both knees. WHY??? Can lyme cause this?? The specialist is suggesting surgery as I am unable to even walk to get arounf the house and cannot go on like this unless I resort to a wheelchair.
My worry, is this really lyme being misdiagnosed as a torn miniscus. He showed me the MRI films and there is no miniscus in the areas he is pointing to, just blank space.This is on the outside of the knee. The inside miniscus has the cartilage.
I am so afraid that the surgery will not improve if it is really lyme related.
Anyone else have a torn a miniscus? Anyone have surgery?? Any advice. I have a mother and daughter to take care of................. this stinks!
This has been going on for about two months. My knees lock in the straight position and the swelling is profound.
Do I need IV???
Posts: 677 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2002
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GEDEN13
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4151
posted
ann/tee,
i have lyme(untreated).i have had 3 surgery's on my right knee.2nd surgery was an open synovectomy.the lyme bug's have eaten away my snyovial lining..
and yes,i do have tron miniscus in my right knee.it has never healed.3 mri's say so ,over a 4 year period.
the other 2 surgerie's were for scraping and clean the lyme arthritis outa my knee.i have been dxed twice with lyme arthritis.same knee.2 infect.dox have dismissed this.
now,the orthopedist won't see me till i am treated for lyme disease.this is for a knee replacement.my appt. is for oct4th.i see the same i.d...but this time i have a tissue biopsy from my knee,that is positive for lyme..
hopefully,with this dx,i will be treated..
as for your pain and swelling,ice for swelling.aqny pain reliever that work's for you.you should NEVER have to live with pain..
i hope this helped.if not,email me,as i won't remember repling to your post........gary
Posts: 1108 | From PA. | Registered: Jun 2003
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
I have torn miniscus in left knee & folded it backwards looked like a chickens leg Also have had numerous tears of tendons and those hurt. yeah I would say it can.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
How would you say the surgies went. Worth having? Why have you NOT been treated for lyme? Will you have to have the knee replacement.
I have been agressively treated for lyme for three years and I honestly don't think there is a cure.just remission if one is lucky.
Treepatrol,
I feel like achicken when I walk.Did you have any surgery. Is the leg still bent back?
I can't believe this si ahppening. Where does lyme's destruction end. Maybe Rife is the answer because antibiotics for three years have done very little.
Anyone else??
Posts: 677 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Aunty, myself and both dghters have this knee problem...one dghter had right knee operated on...We have found out for us it's babesia (after 2 yrs of lyme meds it showed up) kt
Posts: 740 | From BC Canada | Registered: Mar 2003
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lyme_suz
Unregistered
posted
Aunty,
I just love the name Auntibiotic. I will get a better name when my brain gets with it.
posted
I just had surgery in May for meniscus tear. I wondered if Lyme had a little to do with it. The surgeon removed 50% and it is a LONG recovery, 2 months bed rest and physical therapy. I went back to work housecleaning and it really hurt for a month, now slowly getting better. But there isn't really a choice - either you don't walk, or you have the surgery. Best of luck, Aunty!
Posts: 731 | From NH | Registered: Jan 2002
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi aunti
You should try Glucosmine Sulfate-- It really works--it rebuilds cartlage- and tendions-perty fast-
Buy at health food store-- Not wal mart
Make sure bottle Dose Not say HCL --this is low grade and not as good--
I take 2000mg - to start I not only take every few days I have had zero bad side effects
Many including me have felt good effect in days--some it takes a month or so
There are many good brands-- The best brand I know of is GS5000--it is more expencive but most effective.
I know hunderds of people that Glucosimine Sulfate has helped-
Also MSM is good and worth taking--Jay--
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Thanks for the replies. SLOW RECOVERY, my orthopedic specialist said two weeks..........is that a big lie. I really need to know what is in store for me because I have a 80 year old mom and a 15 year old daughter to care for.
I could not even handle bed rest for 2 weeks!!!
KrazyK,
How long was your daughter's recovery?? Did the operation help??
I will try the supplements tomorrow. I keep hoping the stiffness and locking will go away. I can live with a tear just not this locking and instability.
LYME_SUZ, Your name is how I feel about lyme. How are you and the kids doing??
HUGS, Aunty
Posts: 677 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Bb causes certain of our own cells to produce certain matrix metallo proteinases, enzymes that digest different kinds of connective tissue.
MMP9 is one such enzyme that Bb sets off. see klempner. best i recall, one or more omega 3 fatty acids may suppress MMP9 production, but check this.
one or more of the tetracycline class of antibiotics suppress production of MMPs. see arthritistrust.org, the roadback.org for leads to comments about this.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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livinlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3773
posted
WOW gang this is freakin me out here.. I just had this same thing happen to me this past June right before my move I moved and drove with a leg brace on... I guess I was fortunate and I never pursued a specialist for it.. but I am still afraid it may relapse... I think it was from the constant up and down stairs while staying at my mothers for 18 months. with a bad back...I'm now in flat lands with no stairs TG! I have managed not to use the brace and there is no more inflamation on either knee... I went in one night with one leg and two nights later the other knee buckled.. I did not return to hear that it was my miniscus as they already told me about the other one.. I was just going to read a few and leave but this one caught my eye. I really have to rest the shoulder now..later..
-------------------- "Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." Posts: 1389 | From who knows, who cares, but somewhere over the rainbow | Registered: Mar 2003
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Now I am hoping this may pass..like a bad herx...any ideas.....I hate the thought and inconvenience of surgery.
Posts: 677 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I have not been diagnosed with Lyme yet. I have chronic sinus, ear, and bronchial problems that the Lyme doctor is trying to get cleared up.
However, I have had a swollen knee for a year and on each side (front) of it are pockets of what apparently is fluid. It is really abnormal looking. The other knee is in the beginning stages of the same. I try not to bend to the floor for reason because I cannot get back up if I do. Does this sound like any knee problems that some of you may be having or have had?
Posts: 25 | From Crawfordville, Fl U.S. | Registered: Jul 2005
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livinlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3773
posted
Nancy, none of us are Doctors.. but I think this is also the Lyme playing in a weak spot.. they love to move around the body looking for new play grounds... so aggrevate something and they will appear there.. I just thank God that mine never progressed where I need surgery.. I have enough problems in my back to have to deal with that require surgery and no one is doing anything to help get them out of my back... so the damage is being and had been done there with no thought that it will be fixed unless surgery.. .. the thing with lyme is to try to get them to move out of the area they are in.. so they do not destroy it..leaving perminent damage..as like with your ears and such they use a certain type of AB to treat that they move out.. I had lung issues for almost a year they thought I had pneumonia i sounded so "junky" they gave me levaquin specific for lung infection and it took 6 months to finally get my lungs clear. This bug is NASTY!
-------------------- "Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." Posts: 1389 | From who knows, who cares, but somewhere over the rainbow | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Hi nancy hummmm, that sounds like what happened to the other knee once I got moving again after surgery and recovery. It's a kind of bursitis - is it sort of mushy and doesn't really hurt? Also known as "housemaid's knee". The surgeon told me she wanted to drain it, pack it with steriods, and stick me in a brace (rigid) for a week or two. I procrastinated long enough that it did finally go away. The only thing you must be careful of is infection . The fluid inside can get infected and you can very quickly become very sick with a blood infection. Keep your eye on it and check for redness and heat and hotfoot it to the hospital if that happens. Oh, see a doctor!
Posts: 731 | From NH | Registered: Jan 2002
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GEDEN13
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4151
posted
aunti-b, just one more thing,if you do have the knee surgery,make sure you get a tissue biopsy for lyme.
this is a true indicator,that you do have lyme disease.keep it for your record's.
i had this done.my biopsy is positive for lyme.it doesn't take any more time in the o.r..
this way,no one can doubt your having lyme.no one....i hope you can find relief,no matter what you choose to do..
if you have any question's,i will be glad to help....gary
Posts: 1108 | From PA. | Registered: Jun 2003
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Gary, can they biopsy the cartiledge?? Will a local lab as quest or lab corp be sufficient. I don't think the orthopedic doctor would send it to Igenex?? Thanks for all the support.............this sucks.
Posts: 677 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2002
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GEDEN13
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4151
posted
aunt b , i am sure they can biopsy any kind of tissue sample.but you must be request it for lyme disease.
while the doc is in your knee,he should be able to retrieve anything requested.get your pcp to put the request of a perscription.make's everything look professional.
cartlidge? yes,a biospy can be done.but the surrounding tissue might be better.
the hospital i was in ,did the biopsy.i am sure,quest or another lab should do it.
the cdc sez,that you stand a better chance with a tissue biopsy,than blood test. for positive lyme...
talk this over with your pcp.tell him/her of what you want.they should stand by you....
please ask more ,if you need more info...i am tring not to forget this post of your's...send me private message on here.they will notify me.your address is never given.
hope this help's. , gary
Posts: 1108 | From PA. | Registered: Jun 2003
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GEDEN13
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4151
posted
aunt b , i am sure they can biopsy any kind of tissue sample.but you must be request it for lyme disease.
while the doc is in your knee,he should be able to retrieve anything requested.get your pcp to put the request of a perscription.make's everything look professional.
cartlidge? yes,a biospy can be done.but the surrounding tissue might be better.
the hospital i was in ,did the biopsy.i am sure,quest or another lab should do it.
the cdc sez,that you stand a better chance with a tissue biopsy,than blood test. for positive lyme...
talk this over with your pcp.tell him/her of what you want.they should stand by you....
please ask more ,if you need more info...i am tring not to forget this post of your's...send me private message on here.they will notify me.your address is never given.
hope this help's. , gary
Posts: 1108 | From PA. | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I tore my acl which is the ligament that connects around your knee when I was 14. I played competitive soccer but I tore it from just bending down to pick up my clothes. I didn't know I had lyme then but now it all makes sense. My doctors wanted to do surgery, but I opted to go for aternative medicine combined with intense physical therapy. I never played competive soccer after my freshman year of high school but I am so positive that my knee is stronger now that it would have been had I done surgery. My therapy included acupuncture, chiro, muscle testing, diet change, and remedies (medication i put under my tongue). I was playing soccer three weeks later. It would have taken most people atleast 6 monthes of recovery. My knee is by no means perfect but I am so happy I didn't go through with the surgery!
Mom just tore cartilage in her knee this past summer, too! She was bending over to pick up a garden hose...
She's going for surgery next month. My sister's old boyfriend is now a big shot orthopedic surgeon and suggested that we get "a guy who only does knees". Who knew that there were specialized specialists? But the boyfriend only does ankles, so I guess that's how it goes. Shame she didn't marry him!
Estimated recovery time for Mom is three to four weeks - after that, she'll supposedly be fully functional. Hmm. We're pumping her full of joint support stuff to try and keep the other knee from going, too.
Lyme. The fun just never ends.
Posts: 369 | From Ohio | Registered: Mar 2002
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by auntybiotic1499: Thanks for the replies. Gweden,
How would you say the surgies went. Worth having? Why have you NOT been treated for lyme? Will you have to have the knee replacement.
Treepatrol,
I feel like achicken when I walk.Did you have any surgery. Is the leg still bent back?
I can't believe this si ahppening. Where does lyme's destruction end. Maybe Rife is the answer because antibiotics for three years have done very little.
Anyone else??
No my leg isnt like that anymore It still tries to lock up once in while a good crack and its okay I didnt have the surgury I opted to therapy and it was hard real hard.
But I got through it. Some people I know have had surgury and were pleased with it. I could have had the torn stuff trimmed out with artho but the part that really needed fixed posteria crucia spelling? The Dr said they could do a reattachment buy taking a piece out of my good knee and connecting it together in my bad knee but he said one slip before I was totally healed and I would tear that out so I said no.
When in therapy ecentric and concentric muscle's were allmost even they said they never saw that?
They hooked me into a machine called kincom? it measures your improvement well I wasnt back to 100 percent but I figured I was around 65 70 percent and they strapped me in and said go well about a minute later the kincom machine stopped and I drove my knee out of joint. I yelled somebody unstrap me my knees out they did and I squatted and put it back in whew .
So the next appt I was told I had plateued bull I thought so I talked too one of the therapists who was pretty cool and I said what the heLL do they mean I plateued ? He laughed then I said what happened to the kincom machine he said you tore the gears out of it I said how much does that machine cost he said around $40,000.00 dollars oh I said I plateued not physicaly but financialy he shook his head up & down.
So whatever you do becareful and look out for yourself.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Hi Auntie,
Sorry to read of your knee problems. I strongly believe I have had lyme since birth. I have had knee problems since an early age...16.
I have had meniscus and cartiledge problems and excisements and reconstructions and nothing helped me for long until bilateral knee replacement. Two ortho docs in two different states had the same comments after they opened me up and did the replacements. They said they never saw a knee in worse shape. My attempts to have biopsy done fell on deaf ears. So like Geden says get a script for it. I tried the glucosine and stuff and it just gave me a headache... If you do opt for surgery I may suggest you have your autogolus blood supply frozen before re-transfusion into you. It costs 80 bucks a pint and no insurance covers it but I believe it was instrumental in not reinfecting myself the second knee replacement I had. After the first one in recovery I had a violent herx...don't wish the same for anyone else...zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Thank all for the replies. I am scheduled for surgery on Nov 4th. I am wondering if this a a lyme herx because the pain and stiffness and swelling are now ALSO in my ankle.
Maybe this will pass as it has in the past. When my lyme gets bad my knees stiffen up but it has never lasted this long, almost 2 months.
I have gained about 12 pounds in water weight. That in itself is horrible but most of it is in my knees.
What type of horriblle herx did you have after the surgery??
HUG Aunti
Posts: 677 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2002
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Auntie, Now this may not happen to you but...
I woke up with palsey in my right hand and face...my vision was skewed in the oblique...like a painting by a surealist...I was in loads of pain and had great anxiety...I sweated and urinated to the point where the orderlies were taking bets on how much I peed...my sheets had to be changed three times a day....from sweating........
Also had a very extensive rash on my posterior...
A couple years ago I had contracted cellulitis...so the ducks said...I think it was a really bad flare up....
You may want to keep an eye out for that in the future...
My second Knee replacement went a whole lot easier.....no one knows why the first one was soo bad and the second not too bad...
I suspect it had something to do with the fact that I had a higher chete load with the first one and they gave me Vancomycin iv drip for two days...possibly could have been a reaction to the morphine or anesthesia or even just the trauma of surgery...... Hope you don't have a problem......good luck.......zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Hi again Aunty -much good luck with your surgery. I had general anesthesia, which I've been told takes a while to clear from your body - all I wanted to do was sleep! I had a hodge podge of people helping pay bills - my kids, my sister, and Welfare, and several aquaintances drove me to physical therapy until I could drive again. I used crutches for the first two weeks, then kept them in the car in case I got tired. And I used the handicapped spaces to park! It's difficult walking because your muscles are trying to get used to the empty spot where the cartilage used to be. I did my exercises 2-3x a day, read, slept for about 2 months. Pain on climbing stairs, so I had someone bring my computer downstairs. BTW, the physical therapist told me if one is young, sometimes you don't need to have surgery - then he gave me a LOOK, well, duh, I did get it! We'll say I'm over 50! love dharma ps/ it taught me a good lesson in being able to ask for help. I always did for others, but was uncomfortable asking for help for myself. I got over that pretty fast!
Posts: 731 | From NH | Registered: Jan 2002
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marniaps
Unregistered
posted
Hi Aunty, A few years back, I was bending down to pet my dog and heard my knee pop, it swoll up like a ballon and I thought I definitely did something to it. Well, after seeing 2 Ortho's they decided that I have torn my miniscus. When I went in for surgery they said the miniscus wasn't the total problem and that they had to do that scraping of the knee cap and that all my cartiledge was gone from that knee. They asked me if I had any major trauma to the knee, but I hadn't. It wasn't until I saw my LLMD that I found out that the Lyme can eat away at the cartiledge. I did PT and it healed from the surgery but I still can't bend on my knees. My other dog rammed into my other knee and I fear that, that knee also has no cartiledge from the Lyme. I've had Lyme since 1989, so it makes sense that it's been eating away at my knees, since that's where it started. I haven't done any more surgery but figure that I need to get the cartiledge fixed at some point. Well, good luck on yours and I hope for the best. Take care. marni
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