Topic: This time I don't think it's Lyme.....a bit about the VAGUS NERVE
Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
I have been in a pretty good remission of about 85-95% for about 4 1/2 years. Then espcially for the last 4 months I thought ......oh no, I am really in a serious flair and heading back into the abyss. Nothing that I have done in the past seems to be working.
I have gotten several new symptoms that were never a problem for me before, and old symptoms didn't really seem that bothersome.
One was this pain and thumping in my chest. I have whinned about it several times here but it has been VERY frustrating and I will admit somehwat depressing as I was trying to decide if it was my heart or not. I have finally come to the conclusion with much back and forth, that it is in fact my heart. Missed beats and runs of palpitaitons. It's been going on as I say for months and getting somewhat more frequent.
I have also had what I now know is GERD. With tightness in my upper chest, difficulty breathing and the feeling of having a tennis ball, lodged in my throat just below my thyroid. Thought at times it was my thyroid, but after a week trial of Prilosel, having all symptoms going away, I know it is GERD.....I hate that word, it's so ugly.
Both of these symptoms have been getting slowly worse, but as far as my heart goes, I don't see my health in general getting worse.
Then a few days ago it dawned on me......I am almost 50, and am likely perimenopausle. Hadn't I read that irregular heart rate was common during this time. I did some research and sure enough, there it was. Irregular heart rate being one of the most freightening symptoms of perimenopause. Driving some women to near insanity.
Then looked up GERD, sure enough, another MAJOR symptom. Both of these 2 symptoms came on at exactly the same time. Then I started thinking, I am deep into perimenoupause, I know this for sure.
So my point is consider your age. In a way I am very exceited, knowing these things will go away....very soon. It isn't yet another crappy thing I will have to figure out regarding Lyme or deal with the rest of my life.
There is a long list of perimenoupause symtpoms and as usual many correlate with Lyme symptoms, but if you had been doing good then all of a sudden you aren't, look around, there may be yet another cause.
Oh, I do have a docs appt. so I will run this all by him tomorrow, just to be sure.
[ 22. August 2006, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Jellybelly ]
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Jellybelly, I began having irregular periods for about six months, and spotting. I'm almost 52, so it's the right age for that.
I started taking Rhodiola, as per "The Rhodiola Revolution." Right away, my periods became regular again, and the spotting decreased.
I'm taking Rhodiola to combat the fatigue, but as it helps to modulate the HPA axis (hypothalmus - pituitary - adrenal glands) and that influences the reproductive hormones, it makes sense that the Rhodiola would help with perimenopause.
Lyme discombobulates the HPA axis.
So it looks like I may be continuing with all that nonsense for a while yet.
Aren't you working with a chiropractor? Think I remember you posted about improvements to your scoliosis. Chiropractic adjustments can frequently have an effect on G.I. function -- talk to your chiro about this to see if he can help with the GERD.
This is just my opinion and not medical advice.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
Yes Bea, I have absolutely noticed a difference when I get adjusted. It calms the GERD a lot. That in turn seems to decrease the heart issues or maybe it is the adjustment.
Actually I did some reading on the Vagus nerve and asked my chiro about the it. I as so often happens, I knew more about it then he did. Anyways, he got out one of his books and some of the problems related to the Vagus nerve are stomach and esophogeal spasms. That can in turn cause GERD, but the real catch 22 is that the GERD can irritate the Vagus nerve. Then the Vagus nerve can also be responsible for arrythmias and tachycardia as well as bradycardia.
A paralyzied nerve will cause tachycardia, an irritated one will cause slowing of the heart. Well with our history we can have both issues. Paralized nerves seems to be a common situation.
Vagus problems could also explain many of the breathing problems we experience, intestinal problems too. It is highly over looked. The Vagus nerve runs from brain down the neck, close enough to the throat to cause things like the President passing out when eating a pretzel. I had a friend pass out while shaving his neck. Both cases stimulating that nerve which in turn stopped the heart momentarily.
I wonder if this has anything to do with many of us becoming so very weak when eating. The nerve runs all the way through our torso. One time I had chrio surgery and after 5 minutes of being frozen solid I was told NOT to get up for 20 minutes, even if I felt ok. Then I was left alone. Layed there for about 10 minutes and I felt perfectly fine so I got up and proceeded to gather up my things. About 30 seconds into it, I got flushed, hot, and felt like I was going to pass out. I had to sit, quick. doc came in and said, I told ya. The Vagus nerve had also been frozen and was paralized, duh.
But it still all goes back to get the bugs out of the Vagus nerve OR as in what I suspect is happening to me now, hormones are playing a huge role. There may be tricks we can learn to help calm this nerve in the process. One thing that may help is to make sure GERD is NOT a problem for us. Thing is GERD can have very few symptoms, and you might not ever dream GERD is a problem for you.
In my case, my stomach, never hurts. I have had in the past a few instances of difficult breathing. It felt like I was in the smog. It felt like my lungs hurt. More recently I have always got a hoarse throat, a always have to clear my throat. Then I get these kind of like sore throats, but way up high, sometimes even effecting my ears and glands. I get a sensation of having my throat being closed off, or a large lump in it. Does any of this feel like I would imagine GERD too? Nope. But look it up, they are symptoms. I wouldn't really have described any of this as burning a feeling I would have looked for, or heartburn.
As I said before, I am sure it was GERD because Prilosec worked AND it even settled down the heart issues, WHY because I think it was removing the irritant to the Vagus Nerve.
Even the simple stuff can be so inter related.
[ 22. August 2006, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Jellybelly ]
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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You are on the right tract regarding the vagus nerve.
Acetylcholine is the connection between the vagus nerve and Lyme and Babesia. This is the neurotranmitter that controls the vagus nerve. Both Lyme and Babesia rob the choline the body needs to make acetylcholine, thus if you have an insufficient supply the nerve can become paralyzed.
Phosphatidylcholine (oral or IV -- the P.K. protocol) or lecithin is the supplement of choice. The food with the highest choline content is egg yolks -- Dr P.K. advised hubby to eat 3 yolks (only the yolks by themselves) to supply choline. Choline supplementation will actually help with a fatty liver and improve gallbladder function as well and will lower cholesterol and GGT.
The article, "Bell's Palsy of the Gut" discusses all the ways Lyme can affect the G.I. including paralysis of the stomach muscles or stopping peristalsis.
There has also been some discussion as to whether the Lyme produces neurotoxins which also have anticholinergic effects similar to Botox or chlostridium botulism -- article in Townsend Letter to Doctors and Patients.
Acetylcholine and the balance of this neurotransmitter with Dopamine is also the culprit for many of the neurological symptoms of Lyme -- especially movement disorder problems. Also, one of the newest treatments for epilepsy is a vagus nerve stimulator which is surgically implanted -- sends signals up the vagus nerve to the brain.
As Jelly is discovering the hip bone is connected to the thigh bone ..... nothing in the body is isolated. This is particularly true with Lyme and is why it is considered a multisystemic illness.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I just started seeing a chiropractor. He's a wellness and healing chiro, which means he doesn't stop treatment until your spine is in perfect alighnment. He takes preliminary xrays, and continues with them to mark progress. Even if all symptoms go away he won't stop treatment until alighnment is met.
He is also big on diet, supplements, and fairly anti drug.
I went to him on a whim and he xrayed me and showed me my xrays-scoliosis of the lower back and subluxation of the neck.
Scoliosis affects the areas of the spine that supply nerve function to the GI tract, and chiro work has been known to help heal GI issues including hyperacidity, ulcers, chrons, IBS, etc.
He says your spine and brain are your CNS, and if its being irritated by misalighned vertabrae that your body can not heal properly, basically like trying to have a functioning computer with broken and damaged wires.
He's going to be working with me extensively, a couple of times a week, eventually get me to do pilates along with the adjustments to keep vertabrae in place.
He thinks my back trouble helped bring lyme out of remission and now they are feeding each other. He thinks once my alighnment is back to wear it should be my chances of fighting off lyme and building back my immune system will be far greater-especially since he thinks my GI issues could have a good deal to do with my scoliosis.
wow this turned out to be really long...sorry!
I just found all of this very interesting and thought others may want to look into a wellness chiropractor (there are two schools: relief chiro and corrective chiro-wellness is corrective chiro).
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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Just curious, did the chiro saw how long it would take to correct your scoliosis?
Hubby does have mild scoliosis -- have seen some chiros who say that as an adult it cannot be corrected while others say it could at least be improved but would require 1 or 2 adjustments weekly for a couple of years or even longer.
Do believe in chiropractic to a certain extent, just not sure about all the theories I have heard. And of course, much depends on the docs training and experience.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
he said for me since I'm young (26) and there is no disc damage it could take between 6 months-year, with check ups for the rest of my life.
He used an analogy I really liked. He compared it to dental work. He said if you get braces in the hope of changing your crooked teeth it will take a while and many adjustments, some pain, etc. to get them to wear they need to be, and then you'll need a retainer to help them keep their shape.
Same deal with the spine. He says the scoloisis looks like its there since childhood, so it'll take some doing, but he feels strongly that my neck and back subluxations are affecting my health and helping to prevent my healing.
He talked alot about how ridiclous it is that conventional medical doctors (ducks) don't give a rats behind about spinal alignment. Without proper energy flow in the CNS your body simply can not function right. It all made alot of sense.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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its important to see a chiro who believes in corrective work not just relief-its the difference between a LLMD and a regular MD I think.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
I have been seing chiros for about 25 years for scoliosis. I believe in chiropractic 1000%....BUT....I believe that a lot of chiros tell you things that just are not so. They can also be rather drama. The first chiro I ever saw, made me come in with my husband to look at my exrays, like he had found a tumor or something. I didn't like that and never went back.
I have seen a total of about 4 different chiros and I have NEVER had one tell me they could straighten my scoliosis. Maybe the difference is on how severe it is. A chiro making those kinds of comments would make me leary.
Another things that makes me leary is chiros who want to see you numerous times a for many months then reevaluate, because the reavaluation is usually the same with certain chiros....meaning another 6 months.
The chiro that I have been with for about 15 years, never tried to say he could straighten me. What he wanted to do was "try" and prevent things from getting progressively worse as scoliosis is progressive. He also wanted to keep the spine mobile, so that it would not fuse.
Recently I posted that my scoliosis had nearly straigtened out completely....THAT IS NOT NORMAL or should I say typical even with chiropractic. Rolfers claim they can straighten scoliosis too. I've never known anymone who had that happen and my brother in law is a Rolfer, taught by Ida herself. He worked on my mother in law who has scoliosis and she still has scoliosis. Whatever ever happened to me had nothing to do with the chiro either. I hadn't seen a chiro in over a year, with only one visit in the year before that. I go only when I am in pain.
So I am sorry if this sounds negative, but if this is your first experience with chiros....be careful. Some of them can suck money out of you at a VERY fast pace. Much of what your chiro said I agree with, him straighening your spine, is Hog Wash in my experinece. Let me also say that my mom has severe scoliosis, so does my daughter, we have all used chiros. My brother in law has it and just got a rod, and my doc who I saw yesterday has SEVERE scoliosis, pretty much can't look up. If a chiro could do what yours says he can, he'd be a bazzilionaire.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
my scoliosis isn't severe, but its there enough to be causing problems. This chiro was recommended to me by 2 very trusted people.
He also showed before and after xrays of previous patients he has treated, and made it known to me that there are cases he turns away or send to other chiros for strictly pain relief because he does not think he can fix them.
I suppose the before and after xrays could be complete BS, but I have to have some faith. I could also say there's no way Im going to knock lyme back into remission but that will do nothing for me.
He asked my fiance to come in with me to look at my xrays as well, and it didn't bother me at all. I was actually happy and impressed that he wanted to inform both of us of the treatment and what was going on.
His rates are also very reasonable, and like I already said, he mentioned treatment will be a long time, and I will need maintenance adjustments more than likely for life (ie. retainer after braces), but that he can fix the worst of it and show me proof with xrays.
He also states that xrays will be taken prior to adjustments so that shown progress will be real progress, not just because of an adjustment he just performed.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
quote:He asked my fiance to come in with me to look at my xrays as well
I swear they must learn to do this in school. It adds to the drama. Maybe your fiance was already in the waiting room, my husband had to come to a special appt to discuss my xrays.
I think they also learn hand shaking in school. Three of the chiros I have ever been to, shakes hands EVERY time I would see them, and at multiple trips a week, on arrival and then leaving.....ENOUGH ALREADY! Touching people instills confidence. It's a sales tactic, people strategy used by car salesmen, and it brings people back. Well it doesn't bring me back, irritates me, cause I know what they are doing.
But really I love a good chiro. Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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Thanks for bringing this topic up. I'm 49 and have almost identical issues.
I will be researching GERD for more information. Hormones have been a lifesaver for me as well as other things mentioned in this post.
Bea-I always follow your posts too because your hubby's symptoms are close to mine and you are light years ahead of me in the information that you have.
I'm so thankful to have this crucial information so accessible. Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
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