posted
I've been on meds for 6mos and have not experienced this before. My LD pushed up my Mepron to 2 tsp morning and at night 3 wks ago. I wasn't sleeping so he put me on 4 flexeril. I have chronic lyme and Babs. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? It was like someone flipped a switch and I was desperate, then I calmed down about an hour latter. LD told me to try a full tab of Abilify, and to call him if this didn't help.
-------------------- When you reach your "wits-end" remember this: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you. I do not give as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27 Posts: 397 | From Loudoun County Virginia | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Sorry to hear that! Yes, taking malarone (which has the same active ingredient as Mepron) made me desperately depressed and anxious for the first two months or so on it. I only got by on a day-to-day basis.
It is either a babs herx or a reaction to the medication, it is not you!!! This will pass. Please ask your doctor if you should continue at this dosage, or cut back and taper up slowly on the mepron. Have never taken flexeril or abilify, so I don't know about those side-effects; sometimes medications do not mix well. Take care!
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Glad you checked with your doctor.
I can't say about that Rx, but muscle relaxants used to really do me in. Anything that depresses the central nervous system can also trigger depression. sometimes it has to do with its ability to pass on through the liver. If my liver gets sluggish, mood can take a dive.
here's my checklist for times like this.
Are my supplements for liver detox at the right level?
Enough water? enough water? enough water?
B-vitamins at a good level ?
low blood sugar at that time ?
Enough protein yesterday and today ? Enough carbs, good fats.
Did I take my fish oil?
Adrenal exhaustion ? Ashwagandha or Siberian Ginseng seem to help. Medical mushrooms, like cordyceps, too.
Sleep deprived ?
Recent chemical exposure? Sniffing some lemon oil might help.
Eaten gluten after usual gluten-free diet ?
Are your mineral levels (esp. magnesium) where they should be?
Can you get a little fresh air and gentle movement ?
Music to help may be Mozart more than others or whatever makes you feel good.
charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
Suicidal thoughts can also arise from....
taking SSRIs and biaxin at the same time
flagyl or tinidazole.
It's the medicine...not you, keep that in mind and you'll be OK
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Remember - This too shall pass!! As soon as you start feeling a bit better, and you will, you'll stop feeling that way. The Lyme/Babs combo itself can really mess with your brain chemicals. You'll look back & think "WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?!!!" or "What on earth made me think those things?!"
There's also a suicide Hotline posted in Treepatrols newbie links up top ^, if you feel the need.
Are Mepron, Flexeril & Abilify the only Meds/Herbs/Supplements you're presently taking?
I spent a month in bed the first time I did Mepron. I didn't even have the strength to be suicidal. I DID have faith in my choice of LLMD and I still believe that he will eventually get me out of my TBD mess. Sometimes ya just gotta believe that things WILL GET BETTER!!!!
BTW- I once sat out on my deck, in the midst of a really nasty electrical storm, begging God to "PLEASE, just take me already!". Now that I think of it, I may have been on Mepron & Effexor at the time. I think I also took a dose of Milk thistle. (Don't do that with either one of those)
It's scary what some medications can do to you. You do realize that once it passes.
I haven't felt like that in a long time. You'll get better, you just need to know that there's likely a reason your brain chemistry is messed up when you feel that way & it WILL resolve!
Could be the TBDs, could be the meds, either way - REACH OUT!! To the Dr./on the board/to the hotline & just keep reaching until you calm down. It always helps to talk things out.
Are you still feeling that way or has it passed already?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have been on Mepron for nearly six months, as well as Biaxin, flexeril, abilify, Klonipin. I also have taken Pamelor, Welbutrin, Trileptal for the past 5 years. Oh yea, vit B and 1000mg C. I can't afford anymore meds or suppliments, the cost is already causing financial troubles.
Thank you all for your input and support.
-------------------- When you reach your "wits-end" remember this: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you. I do not give as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27 Posts: 397 | From Loudoun County Virginia | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Here's what I've got so far:
Multi-Drug Interaction Checker
Patient Regimen
BIAXIN ORAL MEPRON ORAL B COMPLEX PLUS VITAMIN C ORAL FLEXERIL ORAL PAMELOR ORAL ABILIFY ORAL KLONOPIN ORAL WELLBUTRIN ORAL TRILEPTAL ORAL
Interactions
Moderate Interaction BUPROPION/ANTIPSYCHOTICS Wellbutrin Oral and Abilify Oral may interact based on the potential interaction between BUPROPION and ANTIPSYCHOTICS. BUPROPION/ANTIDEPRESSANTS Wellbutrin Oral and Pamelor Oral may interact based on the potential interaction between BUPROPION and ANTIDEPRESSANTS.
Bupropion/Antipsychotics
This information is generalized and not intended as specific medical advice. Consult your healthcare professional before taking or discontinuing any drug or commencing any course of treatment.
MONOGRAPH TITLE: Bupropion/Antipsychotics
SEVERITY LEVEL: 3-Moderate Interaction: Assess the risk to the patient and take action as needed.
MECHANISM OF ACTION: Both bupropion and the antipsychotics are known to lower the seizure threshold.(1)
CLINICAL EFFECTS: Concurrent use of bupropion and an antipsychotic may result in additive effects on the seizure threshold, increasing the risk of seizures.(1)
PREDISPOSING FACTORS: The risk of seizures may be increased in patients with a history of head trauma or prior seizure; CNS tumor; severe hepatic cirrhosis; excessive use of alcohol or sedatives; addiction to opiates, cocaine, or stimulants; use of over-the-counter stimulants an anorectics; a total daily dose of bupropion greater than 450 mg or single doses greater than 150 mg; rapid escalation of bupropion dosage; diabetics treated with oral hypoglycemics or insulin; or with concomitant medications known to lower seizure threshold (antidepressants, theophylline, systemic steroids). (1)
PATIENT MANAGEMENT: The concurrent use of bupropion and antipsychotics should be undertaken only with extreme caution and with low initial bupropion dosing and small gradual dosage increases.(1)
DISCUSSION: Because of the risk of seizure from concurrent bupropion and other agents that lower seizure threshold, the manufacturer of bupropion states that the concurrent use of bupropion and antipsychotics should be undertaken only with extreme caution and with low initial bupropion dosing and small gradual dosage increases.(1)
REFERENCE:
1.Wellbutrin (bupropion hydrochloride) US prescribing information. GlaxoSmithKline August, 2007.
Bupropion/Antidepressants
This information is generalized and not intended as specific medical advice. Consult your healthcare professional before taking or discontinuing any drug or commencing any course of treatment.
MONOGRAPH TITLE: Bupropion/Antidepressants
SEVERITY LEVEL: 3-Moderate Interaction: Assess the risk to the patient and take action as needed.
MECHANISM OF ACTION: Both bupropion and antidepressants are known to lower the seizure threshold.(1) Bupropion may inhibit the metabolism of desipramine by CYP P-450-2D6.(1)
CLINICAL EFFECTS: Concurrent use of bupropion and an antidepressant may result in additive effects on the seizure threshold, increasing the risk of seizures.(1) Concurrent use may increase levels of and side effects from desipramine.(1)
PREDISPOSING FACTORS: The risk of seizures may be increased in patients with a history of head trauma or prior seizure; CNS tumor; severe hepatic cirrhosis; excessive use of alcohol or sedatives; addiction to opiates, cocaine, or stimulants; use of over-the-counter stimulants an anorectics; a total daily dose of bupropion greater than 450 mg or single doses greater than 150 mg; rapid escalation of bupropion dosage; diabetics treated with oral hypoglycemics or insulin; or with concomitant medications known to lower seizure threshold (antipsychotics, theophylline, systemic steroids). (1)
PATIENT MANAGEMENT: The concurrent use of bupropion and antidepressants should be undertaken only with extreme caution and with low initial bupropion dosing and small gradual dosage increases.(1)
DISCUSSION: Because of the risk of seizure from concurrent bupropion and other agents that lower seizure threshold, the manufacturer of bupropion states that the concurrent use of bupropion and antidepressants should be undertaken only with extreme caution and with low initial bupropion dosing and small gradual dosage increases.(1)
In a study in 15 male subjects were extensive metabolizers of CYP P-450-2D6, bupropion (150 mg twice daily) increased the maximum concentration (Cmax), area-under-curve (AUC), and half-life (T1/2) of a single dose of desipramine (50 mg) by 2-fold, 5-fold, and 2-fold, respectively.(1)
REFERENCE:
1.Wellbutrin (bupropion hydrochloride) US prescribing information. GlaxoSmithKline August, 2007.
From Drug Digest:
5 interaction(s) were found for the drugs you selected.
You searched for interactions between the following drugs:
(Note: Not all drug interactions are known or reported in the literature, and new drug interactions are continually being reported. This information is provided only for your education and for you to discuss with your personal healthcare provider. )
FOOD may interact with CLARITHROMYCIN (in Biaxin)
Food may decrease the absorption of certain forms of clarithromycin from the stomach. If this happens, then potentially less clarithromycin would be available for the body to use and blood levels of the drug could become too low. This could make clarithromycin less effective. To minimize the risk of this potential interaction, take a dose of clarithromycin at least 2 hours before or at least 2 hours after eating a meal or snack. Discuss this potential interaction with your healthcare provider at your next appointment, or sooner if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is poorly documented and is considered major in severity.
CLARITHROMYCIN (in Biaxin) may interact with GRAPEFRUIT JUICE
Grapefruit juice may block the breakdown of clarithromycin in the intestines. This could cause an increase in blood levels of clarithromycin which could increase the risk of side effects from this antibiotic. Potential side effects of clarithromycin include headache, diarrhea, and nausea. You should avoid drinking grapefruit juice or eating grapefruit while taking clarithromycin. Discuss this potential interaction with your healthcare provider at your next appointment, or sooner if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is poorly documented and is considered major in severity.
ALCOHOL may interact with CLONAZEPAM (in Klonopin)
Although the cause of this potential interaction is not fully understood, intolerable or otherwise undesirable side effects may occur when clonazepam is taken with alcoholic beverages or alcohol-containing products (such as some cough syrups and elixirs). Potential side effects include drowsiness, dizziness, blurred vision, headache, and nervousness. Because the combination of clonazepam and alcohol (ethanol) may impair your judgment and/or reflexes, it may be dangerous to drive or to perform tasks which require you to be alert after taking these together. It would be advisable to avoid consuming alcohol while you are taking clonazepam. Discuss this potential interaction with your healthcare provider at your next appointment, or sooner if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is well-documented and is considered moderate in severity.
FOOD may interact with NORTRIPTYLINE (in Pamelor)
Foods that have a high fiber content may interfere with the absorption of nortriptyline from the stomach. As a result, less nortriptyline would be available for the body to use and blood levels could become too low. This could make the drug less effective. High fiber foods include fruits, vegetables, and grains (bread, cereal, rice, and pasta). Let your doctor know if you have recently changed your diet to include more high fiber foods while you are taking nortriptyline. If the nortriptyline does not seem to be working properly, it may be helpful to adjust your diet. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is poorly documented and is considered moderate in severity.
BUPROPION HYDROCHLORIDE (in Wellbutrin) may interact with NORTRIPTYLINE (in Pamelor)
Bupropion may block the breakdown of nortriptyline by the liver. If this happens, blood levels of nortriptyline could be increased. This could cause an increase in both the intended effect and the side effects of nortriptyline including drowsiness and a decrease in blood pressure. If these drugs are used together, your doctor may want to monitor you closely when therapy with bupropion is either started or stopped. If you are experiencing problems, it may be necessary to adjust the dose of nortriptyline. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is poorly documented and is considered moderate in severity.
I noticed that Wellbutrin mentions the CYP P-450 pathway. I believe Mepron may be metabolized there also. You may want to ask the pharmacist. Actually Marnie on the board might know if it should cause problems.
[ 02. January 2008, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Sorry - slow brain day. You've been on ALL the meds for at least six months. You just upped the dose of Mepron 3 months ago.
Maybe yeast? Are you taking probiotics? I notice you didn't mention any.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I eat probiotic foods as available, and when I remember to take it, Tharalac. But Tharalac is expensive, so can't use as much as my LD would like. I don't seem to have a very bad yeast situation. It was bad before I started Biaxin, I can't remember the name of the abx he pulled me off of (I was losing almost a pound per day..17!)
I will talk to my PC doc about all the interactions mention in the previous post. I did have to stop eating grapefruits.
-------------------- When you reach your "wits-end" remember this: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you. I do not give as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27 Posts: 397 | From Loudoun County Virginia | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
I hadn't thought I was having a problem with yeast either. Apparently it can affect you in different ways when it becomes systemic. My LLMD picked it up from a very faint coating on my tongue & the fact that I was developing allergies.
The die-off reaction I got a few days into Diflucan sure told me he was right. It really helped me. It might be worthwhile to pose a question about addressing the possibility of yeast overgrowth to the Dr. as well.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
Just a quick comment for the last two posters. Probiotics are not just to ward off yeast. Taking probiotics (and not just the ones added to food) is imperative when taking abx. You must replace the flora and you risk many other invaders such as c diff. I don't think probiotics is an option, it's a must. There are other brands that are not as expensive.
IP: Logged |
lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
My concerns are with taking two antidepressants plus an antipsychotic.
Do you have a dx of a serious mental illness, i.e. Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, Schizo-affective Disorder?
Just curious/concerned about why you are on so many psychotropic meds, unless that is the case.
If you are having to pay for all those no wonder you are having trouble paying for Theralac!
As an aside, my LLMD has said that Klonopin acts as an anti-seizure med,, so you may want to ask if that is the case in your situation.
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
AliG wrote : " I noticed that Wellbutrin mentions the CYP P-450 pathway . . "
Many drugs use the Cytochrome P-450 pathway.
I deal with two kinds of porphyria. Before that dx (and after) I've had reactions to some of the meds on your list.
As Charlie said, know that it is not you, but the situation, the meds and things can get straightened out.
To find out if a drug might be pushing up the porphyrin level, you can go to PubMed or Google and search "drug name, porphyrin" or "drug name, porphyria"
or "drug name, P450" one of these techniques usually works if you can't find it in the mfg. product information section on drug metabolism.
Links also here to the porphyria sites and their lists.
-
drugs that use that pathway, can result in excess porphyrins and that can cause lots of symptoms, depression and suicidal feelings among them.
Beta carotene can help. Glucose in an emergency, but with candida, you'd sure want to add a probiotic or just see if the beta carotene helps. If you have any orange or green veggies that's good. Slow digesting carbs, too. Brown rice.
Everyone has porphyrins. It's the excess when the liver does not have enough enzymes to detox that poses a risk. Those enzymes are not commercially available but some of the liver protective measures we've come to know can help.
-
While this addressing excess porphyrins in the treatment of Chlamydia pneumonia (sp?), it can relate to any infection protocol. ===========================
Secondary Porphyria: what you should know before starting a CAP
Submitted by Jim K on Wed, 2006-02-08 11:18. Cpn induced secondary porphyriai
Treatment of Chlamydia infection may exacerbate pre-existing genetic porphyria or more likely cause a secondary acute porphyria by making the intracellulari Chlamydia more active or by killing infected cells that already are loaded with high porphyrin levels.
Some of what is mis-labeled as a ``herx'' reaction to treatment, is actually an acute porphyria reaction and not a reaction to bacterial endotoxini which is what a true herxheimer reaction is referring to.
What is Secondary Porphyria?
Porphyrias are diseases in which the heme pathway has malfunctioned. They can be genetic or be secondary secondary to another disease process.
Part of what is so special about the thoroughness with which Dr. Charles Strattoni and his colleagues have studied Chalmydial disease is their discovery that Cpn interferes with the heme pathway, and that many patients with chronic Cpn infections have secondary porphyria to start with, and that this is further exacerbated under treatment.
When you understand more about porphyria, it can help you sort out "die-off" as well as chronic symptoms you have, which may be due to heme byproducts-- and how to treat for it.
Heme is a Fe2+ complex. A number of critical cellular functions rely on it and the biosynthesis of heme occurs in all human cells.
Toxic compounds called porphyrinogens are formed in one transitional phase of the heme biosynthesis pathway but under normal circumstances are quickly transformed into heme which is not toxic.
The porphyrias are consequences of any impairment of the formation of porphyrinogens or in their transformation to heme. Chlamydiae interfere with this step.
Porphyrins then accumulate in the cell itself, and then in the extracellular milieu. Within the mitochondrial matrix, the final steps in the biosynthesis of heme are halted. Depletion of host cell energy by the intracellular infection with Chlamydia species causes additional energy-related complications.
Highly simplified, heme synthesis should look like this:
Heme precursors >> porphrinogens>> transformation to heme >> increased cellular transport including ATP production.
Instead, Cpn interferes with this normal process, and this happens:
Heme precursors >> porphrinogens >> interference with transformation to heme >> build up of unstable heme precursors and porphyrins inside and outside cells >> free radical damage and reduced ATP (energy) synthesis.
Symptoms of Porphyria-
Porphyria may affect the nervous system or the skin.
When porphyria affects the nervous system, it can cause: * chest pain * shortness of breath * abdominal pain * nausea * muscle cramps * weakness * hallucinations * depression * anxiety * paranoia * seizures
When porphyria affects the skin it can cause: * blisters * itching * swelling * sensitivity to the sun (which also can be caused by some antibioticsi) * colored urine
cont'd at link above.
============
Some doctors check the urine for porphyrins, but blood and stool is also required. See the links below if you have questions about that.
posted
Wow, okay...some of my respondants (thank you) are obiviously not experiencing cognitative difficulties. "Talk to me as if I were three", is definately needed here. I am totally confused, except that I get there are possible meds interactions.
The Klonopin was initially prescribed for Fibro, misdiagnosed LD. Then it was keep on my regiment for anxiety.
The question regarding my non-Lyme meds: treatment for severe depression and axiety. I've had it all my life... undiagnosed. Family problems covered it up for the first 26 years.
-------------------- When you reach your "wits-end" remember this: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you. I do not give as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27 Posts: 397 | From Loudoun County Virginia | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
EWT1638 - oh, the cognitive stuff. Well, we just had a jump on you with the information. We've probably compiled bits and pieces and just could copy and paste from a file page.
Many of us have been through what you are dealing with, although of course, not exactly.
I think the last reply was probably enough. See what you can drop off and hope that helps.
Recent exposure to molds, too, can cause severe depression.
Regardless of your genetics, family history or whatever, it is possible to have a future less encumbered of all this.
There are some remarkable turnarounds from certain fatty acids and B vitamins in the world of mood. But that's for another day.
kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
EWT....my daughter started with anxiety/depression/OCD before she was diagnosed with bartonella and babesia.
When she started mepron, her suicidal thoughts came back. She didn't smile for the five months she was on it. She hallucinated, and it cause intense pain in her neck.
It was a very hard medication for her. She maxed out the dosage on her antidepressants.
After getting off mepron, she leveled out. Klonipin became her friend during the mepron days.
I feel for you, I watched her suffer.
Call your doctor and tell him what's going on.
And, I agree, with the one poster, probiotics are a must. I certainly understand the financial cost, but Therelac is the best.
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
I DID have faith in my choice of LLMD and I still believe that he will eventually get me out of my TBD mess. Sometimes ya just gotta believe that things WILL GET BETTER!!!!![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic