Topic: PLEASE READ if you use long-term abx--candida
Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
Hi guys--
I just wanted to emphasize how important it is to keep apprised of candida issues. Several veterans on this board, such as Lymetoo, have been posting about this for years. Please listen!!!
If you have been taking long-term antibiotics and have been taking probiotics and even an antifungal, you could still have severe candida problems. That's my story. Despite being on antifungals and probiotics with abx (and avoiding sugar) I have severe yeast overgrowth and I didn't even know it.
I've been off abx for awhile and I even recently tested "negative" on my bloodwork for systemic yeast. Well, that doesn't matter. I have it. I started suspecting systemic yeast due to lingering fatigue (despite treatment for all co-infections) and joint pain in ALL my joints (not migratory like it initially was with the lyme). When I strarted treating with Diflucan, I've had the die-off from hell: matter in my eyes; itching; increased pain; increased fatigue...
Thanks to DocDave's suggestions, I realized that I was have a severe histamine or allergic response to the yeast. I take pediatric benadryl with the diflucan and it helps....
Also, note that systemic yeast can interfere with magnesium levels and can AFFECT ENDOCRINE FUNCTION (your thyroid)....
Please, please, please listen when people talk about yeast on this board. I think it can be as big a problem as lyme and many are mistakenly attributing co-infections to systemic yeast issues.
Check out the link below which contains an article on systemic yeast: you need to treat it with probiotics, antifungals (the right one for you) and diet....
Anyone else treating systemic candida right now???? I would love to hear your thoughts/suggestions....
posted
Interestingly enough my husband had yeast/fungal issues before he was dx'd and started long term abx.
I was quite worried that these conditions would be exacerbated by abx and we supplemented appropriately (but not extraordinarily) with probiotics.
Much to our amazement these yeast issues that had plagued my husband since youth, over about a years time, diminished and finally disappeared. This was without ANY treatment for yeast--no antifungals, herbals, topicals, etc.
I'm sure that some yeast infections/issues are really just co-infections and products of a weakened immune system.
This is not to say that we shouldn't be vigilant with our supplements, but just an interesting aside.
Posts: 554 | From Naples, Italy | Registered: Jun 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Yeast infections can span a huge range.
Some yeast infections can infect the brain; some can become fatal.
It's very important to be aware of all the this, as prevention is the number one key.
When my mother was very ill in 1984 with (yet-to-be dx HIV and AIDS), she had horrible thrush (in her mouth). For years, she had worn fake fingernails to cover up what I later learned was yeast infection of nails.
Yet, no attention at all was paid to my mother's yeast infection which, undoubtedly, was systemic and likely also in her brain.
Today, I think doctors do better with identifying. Still, treatment can be very hard on the liver of an otherwise compromised patient.
From the get-go, the yeast infection should have been addressed - and that would have led to an immune specialist and possibly a diagnosis that was not postponed until her days were nearly over.
I am sure we had preventative measures in 1984, but no one told me. On frequent abx since college, I had a systemic candida infection for decades before I stumbled upon information. I would have been the first in line for prevention had I only known.
So, just in case, someone does not know: Yeast (fungi) are not limited to candida. Fungi infections can be very dangerous. And you can help prevent that.
For anyone with serious fungi infections, be sure to seek the best medical care you can and adhere to the best self-care plan possible.
As Sojourner points out, a comprehensive program to treat all infections that may hamper the immune system can also help to resolve issues.
And, if you love garlic and onions, go for them! Turmeric and other brightly colored cooking herbs are also very good.
I've not been able to be on long-term treatment for lyme and co., but when I've had a month or two of abx, olive leaf extract (OLE) always worked for me in the prevention of candida.
Probiotics, are also necessary with OLE or other anti-fungal supplements.
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[ 23. June 2008, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
In Vitro antimycotic activity of xanthorrhizol isolated from Curcuma xanthorrhiza Roxb. against opportunistic filamentous fungi.
Rukayadi Y, Hwang JK.
Department of Biotechnology, Yonsei University, Seoul 120-749, South Korea.
Xanthorrhizol was isolated from the rhizome of Curcuma xanthorrhiza (Zingiberaceae) and its in vitro activity against opportunistic filamentous fungi was evaluated using the NCCLS (M38-A) standard method.
Xanthorrhizol was found to be active against all the species tested, namely Aspergillus flavus, Aspergillus fumigatus, Aspergillus niger, Fusarium oxysporum, Rhizopus oryzae and Trichophyton mentagrophytes. . . .
The susceptibility of six species of filamentous fungi to xanthorrhizol was comparable to that of the commercial antifungal, amphotericin B. Xanthorrhizol also has activity to inhibit the conidial germination of all tested species.
The results strongly suggest that xanthorrhizol can be developed as a natural antifungal agent.
posted
Java Turmeric = Curcuma xanthorrhiza. Anyone try it before?
Posts: 526 | From NJ | Registered: May 2007
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
good thread bugg,
i just finished 10 days of nazarol for vag yeast infection. Feel better the last few days. But this never lasts. I was on Nazarol almost all of 06.
i wish i could figure it out. I have stiffness all over, weight loss, and bladder/pelvic stuff.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
It's important to remember that some people can become immune to the effects of particular antifungals. There are studies regarding this in PubMed....Some may need to try different antifungals in order to eradicate the candida or other types of yeast/fungus....
In my humble opinion, short doses of antifungals to treat systemic yeast is just not enough. Additionally, Nystatin, for example, only treats yeast in the gut and doesn't reach tissues outside of this area....
Unfortunately, I feel many on this board are incorrectly attributing lyme symptoms to yeast/fungus overgrowth....
I practically want to beg people on this board to research this issue on their own....
Yeast/fungus can cause muscle pain, dizziness, joint pain, severe fatigue and brain fog...to name a few of the symptoms....
[ 24. June 2008, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Bugg ]
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
can'tgiveupyet
did you mean nizoral?
i was given that once for a mis dx...and i thought i was going to die
it was as if my skin was totally crawling with live things
i told the doc if i had to take it they would have to keep me asleep the whole time...i could not take it
this was before my lyme dx and years of learning and tx
now i wonder if my reaction waqs the killing off of big time yeast
i don't test high for it...eat reasonabley well-use probiotics and sbc...
but i agree and wonder how many of my lingering symptoms could be yeast
i know my daughter improves for a whole year of detox and cleaning up the yeast aqfter only one year of abx
good post
any anwers to the nizoral???
diflucan and nystatin are staples for me and never give me any reaction (except to stop diarhea)
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
yes, my bad, i cant spell too well. It is nizoral.
Its my wonder drug and always has been. I get worsening of bladder and vag pain but then feel better...its an odd thing really.
Ive been on more antifungals than abx. I have so many old expired abx. Havent finished one full bottle of abx yet.
Each time i take abx more than a few weeks i get resistant yeast.
I was on the strict diet for almost two years....i just dont know what my symptoms are. My llmd feels babs...but i dunno.
I can tolerate carbs better now than i once could that i do know.
I have very little if any GI symptoms that would signal systemic yeast.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
Cantgiveupyet--
For what it's worth, I had NO GI symptoms but still had massive problems with yeast...
Also, did you see, I think it was the PubMed article, where people with recurrent vulvodyinia(sp)?? were treated with Diflucan. Apparently for some it reoccurred but many discovered eradicating the candida helped with the pain/stiffness they were having....
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
So, are you supposed to supplement with magnesium or are you supposed to avoid it?
I was miserable with candida for several years before getting lyme. After a strict diet and herbal supplements, it calmed down a lot, though not completely.
Needless to say, I was adamently against taking antibiotics when I got lyme. But I decided I had no choice.
Strangely, though, all my old candida symptoms are now completely gone. I thought maybe it is the cat's claw and probiotics. But all these abx just can't be a good thing...
I feel like a walking time bomb!
So, how would I know if I have it?
-------------------- 09/29/07: bitten since 05/01: omnicef+biaxin+plaquenil 350 cats claw + knotwood thruout. Posts: 227 | From Northern CA (bitten in Illinois) | Registered: Jan 2008
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
you know my mom died and i'm positive it was lyme.
when they finally got around to testing her, she was complaining she couldn't swallow. no wonder!! her throat was almost completely closed due to yeast. she had such massive yeast it was in her lungs, stomach, etc. she eventually died and i'm sure it was a large part of her problems.
they never gave her anything for yeast in all the years they treated her. i kept asking about it but nobody would listen to me.
they didn't take yeast seriously and look what happened....
i'll never forgive myself...
so, yes, watch the yeast and if your doctor doesn't do anything about it, insist on treatment....
in fact, next visit with my llmd, i'm going to ask about yeast also.
i'm taking candex twice a day...
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
bugg- no i havent read that Pubmed article. But I was on difflucan in 06, and it got rid of some symptoms i believe. Its hard to say as it might just have been the progression of the disease.
My vag yeast is resistant to difflucan, so taking it just causes this issue to worsen(my opinion as im not a dr) If i take a short course of abx and take difflucan every 4 days, im ok. But longer abx, forget it...resistance develops.
I swear symptoms improved on levaquin...but again tough to say as im getting non lyme treatment too for the pelvic area.
Im rail thin again.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
Randibear--
I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. My heart goes out to you.
Yes, systemic yeast can be horrible and unfortunately fatal sometimes in the severely immunocompromised. There are some articles on this in PubMed regarding cancer and HIV patients...You can go on Google Scholar and read about candida...
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
It is really bad stuff. I think I may have the allergic response also. Except for my sort of recent bout with a sinus infection ( and abx ) I have been off abx almost 4 yrs now.
I still battle yeast. Take care of yourselves NOW!!
The bad news? I DID take care of yeast (tried) the entire time I was on abx.
I actually treated yeast about a year before my Lyme diagnosis........ which I'd had for 40+ yrs by the time that dx (lyme) came along.
I don't have my links... but you can access them by doing a search here and type in my member number "743" .. That will bring up all the links on candida.
( I don't have my links because I'm on vacation right now! )
PS... My candida also causes me joint pain and fatigue as Bugg said. Abstaining from sugar and simple carbs helps.
Also avoid nightshades like the plague!!!
Potatoes, peppers, peanuts, etc
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96227 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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What is this about yeast and mag levels, and how does this affect thyroid? Tell me more please...
(I am having thyroid issues, and don't know whether to take mag or not???) Laura
Posts: 232 | From MN | Registered: Jul 2007
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Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
Laura--
Unfortunately due to the dearth of medical literature regarding magnesium intake and the thyroid, I really can't offer any sort of response....I would just ask my doc on that one...
I saw a few articles, predominantly written by alternative docs as these are mainly the ones who focus on candida, which discussed the fact that candida can interfere with "receptors" and inhibit the thyroid gland and also prevent absorption in the cells of magnesium.
As an aside, about a month ago, I remember reading an article on hypomagesemia (which is severe mag deficiency) which was partly due to a severely underactive thyroid.
Each person's case is so individual so I really would consult my doc about the mag....For me, I take it as I, otherwise, would have CRAZY muscle twitches....
Recently taking Armour for hypothyroidism, taking more magnesium, and attacking candida has REALY, REALLY, REALLY HELPED....
They are all really interrelated...If you have severe candida problems, your immune system is going to struggle which is going to impact your endocrine system/thyroid...
Since I've been treating my candida issues, I've found I actually need less Armour.....
I didn't even know I had candida issues until I started treating for it with Diflucan.... (all bloodtests normal and no gastrointestinal issues)....
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
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After 1+ mos on ABX's with LLMD, my blood work came back negative for all TBD's and positive for Candida. I had positive Elisa's and Ind. Western Blots 3 to 6 months ago.
I have been having a lot of muscle pain, minor twitching, insomnia and some digetive disturbances, no consistancy loose then constipated. Oral thrush is continual, cannot resolve with nystatin. I have just started Diflucan and am adding garlic and caprylic acid. Will try Anti-yeast diet and hopefully flush my bowels regularly.
Could my symptoms be all yeast and just being mis-diagnosed as Lyme?
Any thoughts.
Dave
Posts: 69 | From New York State | Registered: May 2008
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
what is the best indicator of systemic yeast?
also, what are some reliable tests?
thanks
derek
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