Topic: Are there any alternatives to the alternative artemisinin? LOL
TheCrimeOfLyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4019
posted
I was planning on (hopefully) ending my treatment with serious doses of doxy and then after that, moving on to artemisinin. BUT, I am going through ALOT of sinus obstructions now such as deviated septum, broken nose, polpys, etc that I need to have surgery to overcome. Anyways, my ENT decided to run allergy testing on me and one of the things that I blood tested
as VERY allergic to was "Mugwort" which is DEFINITELY in artemisinin. I've always had probs with artemisinin but thought I was herxing. Haha.
I can't take standard babs treatment. Been there, done that-crashed my system and took two years to rebound, so I won't be going back there.
Anyone know of anything else to take?
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Hi Jodie been a long time .
First, according to Dr. Schaller, the 1500 mg of Mepron that is typically prescribed by LLMD's to those with babesia usually fails to completely eradicate the infection. So not only is the drug pricey, current doses aren't curative. Although he didn't specify to me what doses would be curative, he alleges that his patients are cured of babesia in nine weeks when he prescribes them doses higher than 1500 mg. So if you want to know more, I would suggest contacting him at his website: www.personalconsult.com. He adds that flavored organic oils made by Fronteir mask the horrible flavor of the drug and increase its absorption.
Likewise, he refutes the notion that Malarone, when combined with another medication, is curative for the infection, stating that no fully blinded trials have ever proven that any combination involving Malarone and other drugs to be effective. What's more, even though it may be cheaper than Mepron, Malarone, according to Schaller, is only a fraction of liquid Mepron's potency.
Furthermore, he contends that the herbs enula and cryptoleptis, while they have proven to be useful, in tests have not proven to be curative, either. Enula's effectiveness has only been based on clinical response, and cryptoleptis has yet to be tested at length in Lyme disease patients.
He also hinted that artemisia, in higher doses than what are most often prescribed, can be curative.
So for now, it seems that Dr. Schaller believes that of the above remedies, only Mepron and perhaps artemisia, in higher doses than those typically prescribed, have proven to be curative for babesia. He didn't disregard the above herbs as useless, but believed that more tests needed to be done to determine just how effective each one of these is for eradicating the disease. googled link
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Abstract Babesiosis is a malaria-like parasitic disease causing subclinical or mild illness in most cases. Splenectomized patients, however, may experience a more severe course. Although generally responsive to antibiotic therapy, several cases of severe babesiosis refractory to appropriate antibiotic therapy have been reported to respond promptly and dramatically to red blood cell (RBC) exchange transfusion. Although the role of HIV coinfection in babesiosis is uncertain, two previously reported cases raise a concern that it may predispose to a more severe clinical course. We report a third case of severe babesiosis in an HIV-positive splenectomized man, following travel to an endemic area. Antibiotic therapy, though initially effective, ultimately failed to prevent severe disease. RBC exchange transfusion resulted in prompt clinical improvement, which has been sustained during 26 months of follow-up. Although the patient has since developed various sequelae of HIV infection, including disseminated Kaposi's sarcoma, CMV retinitis, and enteritis, there has been no recurrence of observable parasitemia. In severe babesiosis, RBC exchange transfusion, combined with appropriate antibiotic therapy, appears to be a rapidly effective therapeutic modality which can induce sustained remissions. � 1993 Wiley-Liss, Inc. another
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Tree, that is very interesting- Schaller says 9 weeks of mepron at the proper dose will cure it? I assume the dose is still weight-based, so it might be possible that a lighter person on a "standard dose" could in theory be cured because that dose is stronger in that person?
Did Schaller say anything about how to tell if the infection has been cured? Since our co-infections can overlap in symptoms, is the FISH test accurate in determining an infection has cleared, or are we still guessing by symptoms alone?
TheCrimeOfLyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4019
posted
Thanks guy for your suggestions, I will be looking them up.
I cannot take antimalarials! Been there, done that. Clindamycin and Quinine landed me with leaky gut syndrom and on mepron- I hit my daughter! And I was only taking 1/4th tsp at that time. Wont be doing that again, ever.
I can't take artemisinin tree LOL, Im allergic to the component in it.
I will look up the other stuff mentioned.
Thanks guys.
-------------------- You want your life back? Take it. Posts: 3169 | From Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2003
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I'm surprised a little at you tree....shcaller schmaller!
Dr Burrascano says that malarone or mepron and zithromax or azithromycin should clear up babesiosis....
However....it is a nasty lil booger and antibiotics or tetricyclines won't touch it...
so how cum you're trying to get rid of a protozoan or piroplasm with antibiotics?
Plus the only failure Dr B discusses is when quinine and clindamycin were used since 1998!
Dr B further recommends a combination of atovaquone(Mepron, Malarone) plus an
erythromycin-type drug. These range in azitromcin(Zithromax),clarithromycin(Biaxin), or telithromycin(ketek).
Even though Ketek is probably off the market where you are as it is where I am now....
but I used it prior to it's supposed "liver killer" problems with mepron and did'nt like the reactions but I feel much better as a result.
My LLMD in training has also recommended ALINIA to get rid of the nasty little parasites....
He seems to think(along with a couple collegues)that Alinia is the end all to these diseases. He believes that this drug is
an anti cystic,spirochetal,parasitic,anti-bacterial agent! All wrapped up into one!....
I have used the stuff but....the jury is still out as far as I can tell...
however it or the previously mentioned mepron and Ketek have gotten me this far...although....
this babesia bad boy is a real nasty bad boy and four months of therapy may not be enough to totally erradicate it from our bodies...
According to Dr B...it can recur from "silent" form to a fulminant,
potentially life threatening illness
often times missed because of the lyme disease...
He reports that this recurrence can happen at any time including up to several years after the initial infection!
Furthermore, such Babesia carriers pose a risk to the blood supply as this infection has been reported to be passed on by blood transfusion.
I still have bad sweats....although while I was visiting up north I did't sweat nearly as much as I do down here in Florida.
I have also had a number of the suggested remedies along with artemesinin but don't think I have TOTALLY ERRADICATED it from my system.
"It has been published that as man as 66% of Lyme patients show evidence of co-infection with Babesia.
In Milder forms, smptoms may include a vague sense of imbalance without true vertigo,
headach, mild encephalopathy, fatigue, sweats, air hunger and occasionally cough.
When present as a co-infection with Lyme, initial symptoms of the illness are often more acute and severe.
Suggestions of co-infection include the above symptoms, BUT the headaches are more severe and
encephalopathy is out of proportion to the other Borrelia symptoms.
The fulminant presentations include high fevers, shaking chills and hemolysis and can be fatal.....
the tests are problematic because there are 13 species and we can currently only test for
B. microti and WA-1 with our serologic and nuclear tests.
Standard blood smears are only good for the first two weeks of infection.
However this new lab in Florida is supposed to be doing the same test that the "BOWEN" labs
used to perform on whole blood derived from Dr Whitakers notes and they MAY be able to diagnose
or see different here to for unheard of species of this disease.
This has yet to be confirmed by me personally and I have'nt heard of anyone going there and getting a positive result at this time....sooooo
don't know!
Hope this helps a little....
All that smart stuff is quoted from Dr B's guidelines of 2005
so if I forgot to put quotes in there....I appologize to him and whoever helped him compile his regimen.
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: I'm surprised a little at you tree....shcaller schmaller!
zman
I was just pointing out these that were in his spiel.
Furthermore, he contends that the herbs enula and cryptoleptis,
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Artemesinin is metabolized through the Cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway and for those who don't have enough of the enzymes that are made in the liver for that pathway, excess porphryins can be a result. (Such enzymes are not available to take as supplements, but liver support can help.)
If this is the case, either avoidance - or addition of things to lessen the porphryin load can help.
Beta Carotene is the number one helper. Schizandra is another favorite of mine. (I deal with 2 kinds of chronic porphryia.)
Although a positive dx of babesia (with Bb and ehrl.) way back, I could never get a doctor to order the meds - even mepron.
I did two courses of the art. with allicin, circ P and AI#1. The AI#1 made it easier to handle (all through Dr. Z's protocol. Not sure if that was enough but I had trouble staying on art, too.
But, had I the funds to afford mepron - or see a LLMD - I would have liked to have gotten in and done the work with the big guns. Still, many seem to be looking for the key to the puzzle.
Other than artemesia, I've looked at Cryptoleptis, Bidens, Stonebreaker (chanca piedra), and even andrographis for their history with malaria. Olive Leaf Extract, too, may have a place.
I've not done all the research but these keep popping up - I'd put some of that here but my hands are screaming for their wraps ice now.
www.rain-tree.com has some great research articles. You just have to work a little to get to their search page. Chanca Piedra's research has one citation regarding babesia.
From all I've read, though, no single agent is enough alone - always, more than one thing so that resistance might be avoided. And rotation of some of the ingredients in a combination formula can be of help.
There is info. on Cryptoleptis at his web site, but not in the book "Healing Lyme" - it is in an earlier book of his, however.
-------------
I've not had the money for the Babesia books by Dr. S (they are really up there in price) so . . .
Treepatrol, thanks for this in an post of yours a few post above:
" . . . So for now, it seems that Dr. Schaller believes that of the above remedies, only Mepron and perhaps artemisia, in higher doses than those typically prescribed, have proven to be curative for babesia.
He didn't disregard the above herbs as useless, but believed that more tests needed to be done to determine just how effective each one of these is for eradicating the disease. " end quote
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