Topic: Question about Rifampin and Minocycline combo for Bart (and possible myco)
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I will be starting this combo soon, and I was wondering if I need to start them AT THE SAME TIME for them to be effective against bartonella, or mycoplasma.
I am thinking of starting the Rifampin for 3 weeks or so and then adding the Minocycline.
Will this combo be less effective if not taken together in the beginning? I should mention I'll be on Zithromax too for now, so it's not like the Rifampin will be all alone.
The reason I'm thinking of doing this is a very stupid reason, and if you all want to chastise me for it, that's fine, because I probably deserve it.
I am currently on Mepron and might prolong my Mepron longer than my LLMD wants me to. I have enough left to keep going with it, and I feel like the Mepron is not done doing it's job. I can tell babesia is still a factor, and I haven't even made it to Burrascano's required 5-month-minimum yet.
However, I NEED to start the Rifampin. This bartonella is eating me alive right now. It's almost as if I just contracted it.....it came out of the woodwork and is progressing worse and worse every day.
LLMD and I have decided on Rifampin/Mino for the Bart....I have tried other combos, and this is the best at this juncture.
But I definitely don't want to start the Minocycline with the Mepron! So I would just add the Rifampin to my current Mepron/Zithro thing without the Mino. I know Mepron and Rifampin interact, but I am willing to loose some of my Mepron's effectiveness because it's better than nothing.
So that is the explanation, but back to the original question.....is it okay if my Rifampin and Mino don't overlap in the beginning? I may ask my LLMD but I wanted to run it by you guys first to see if it's a stupid idea.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Take the Rifampin with Plaquenil. It works similar to Biaxen and Zithromax.
You should not start full doses of any medication or any medications all at once unless absolutely instructed by a physician. Rifampin is a tricky one, because different people have different thoughts about resistance if it's used alone. I personally don't think using it for a couple weeks alone is a problem, but confirm that with your physician.
The Mepron is a no-no with Rifampin, however since you have problems with Babesia, use Dr. Zhang's Artemesia and get rid of the Mepron and Zithromax all together. You can use the Zhang Artemesia in this routine with nothing else added, and it'll work if you stay with it. Combine it with the Zhang HH. If you have the financial resources use the whole Zhang routine. Coptis, HH and Artemesia and Circulation P.
You need to have a comprehensive Metabolic Panel done initially, then a CBC and Hepatic Panel, every week initially, then every 2 weeks. After two months, you can do it once per month.
This routine will also hit Lyme Disease if done correctly. You can add other weapons too, like Zhang's HH, Nutrimedix Banderol, and for detoxification Chelex, ALA, NAC, Glycine, Glutathione etc. These would not be taken all at once either, just one thing at a time, and very gradually.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Unfortunately I can't take Plaquenil...it was a very toxic drug for me Thanks for the suggestion though.....it's a good one.
Is the three week spacing out too much of a space though? I'm guessing since I'll have the Zithro thrown in there it will be okay.
I will be getting bloodwork done every week for the first 4 weeks on Rifampin....my LLMD is on top of things in that respect.
I also asked him about Clindamycin, because I know it has an action against malaria even alone (without quinine).....so maybe that would be an option to add to the Rifampin/Mino eventually if I'm concerned about babesia.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote: Unfortunately I can't take Plaquenil...it was a very toxic drug for me [Frown] Thanks for the suggestion though.....it's a good one.
Use Amantadine then. Same response, but it doesn't have the anti-cystic properties, but it'll still provide the Rifampin an "accelerator into cells organelles" Tindizole would be useful for the anti-cystic properties. If medications can't be used, Nutribiotics Grapefruit Seed Extract could be, but it must be taken 3 hours away from your medications.
quote: Is the three week spacing out too much of a space though? I'm guessing since I'll have the Zithro thrown in there it will be okay.
The Zithromax and Mepron just isn't worthwhile at this point in my opinion.
quote: I will be getting bloodwork done every week for the first 4 weeks on Rifampin....my LLMD is on top of things in that respect.
Good
quote: I also asked him about Clindamycin, because I know it has an action against malaria even alone (without quinine).....so maybe that would be an option to add to the Rifampin/Mino eventually if I'm concerned about babesia.
Re-read my last post, I added a lot of things when I edited it. The best Babesia protocols involve Artemesia. I'm not a fan of Clindamycin, the results have been underwhelming. Only a select few physicians use it and claim success.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Metallic Blue,
Thanks for you thoughtful reply.
Since I know babesia is still a factor for me, the idea of going off Mepron and Zithromax is scary. Maybe you can understand that fear. It sounds like you think just Zhang's artemisinin is enough. I am inclined to believe you, but I am still nervous.
I think a lot of my desire to stay on Mepron is fear-driven.
I am also starting back up on the salt/C protocol....something I believe for ME is a good thing, maybe not for everyone though.
You mentioned Adamantadine. You think Rifampin NEEDS something to accelerate it into cells? I think Zithromax certainly does (which I'll be stopping), but Rifampin too huh?
You mentioned Tindazole. I SHOULD probably start looking into cyst-busting. My LLMD doesn't put much emphasis on it, unfortunatly. I was thinking of addressing the cysts in a couple months, but maybe I should start sooner.
Anyways thanks again for your thoughtful advice...means a lot.
PS---with Zhang's art, you take it everyday, right? Because I know with the normal Art, the 4 days on, 3 days off cycling is useful because it keeps the regular artemisinin working.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Metallic Blue, My LLMD has me on Rifampin with Mepron...
Also, Hoos why do you have to get weekly bloodwork on Rifampin?? My doc NEVER mentioned this to me... Can something go wrong on rifampin??
Thanks and Good luck with your new combo!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I guess it's just the first month and a half, Shandy, to make sure your body is handling it okay. I didn't really have the energy to question my doc too much on the "why."
I think you've been on it longer than that, right? Can't remember. Do you have a standing order for labs? You could just go get some bloodwork done this week and see if everything's okay.
I think a big gauge would also be how you feel....if you start feeling a lot worse or a lot more "toxic"...that is probably bad.
I bet once you make it past the first month or so, you're okay just as long as you get them done monthly. You should definitely be getting monthly labs though!
Oh PS---I think Metallic Blue was just saying that for me the Mepron is probably not doing much anymore.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote:Metallic Blue, My LLMD has me on Rifampin with Mepron...
Also, Hoos why do you have to get weekly bloodwork on Rifampin?? My doc NEVER mentioned this to me... Can something go wrong on rifampin??
Thanks and Good luck with your new combo!
No Shandy, your routine was setup differently. We discussed this previously. Mepron and Rifampin don't have any negative reaction on the patient, but rather Rifampin prevents Mepron from working as well as it could. Dr. Horowitz has you on other things that work to take up the slack for this compromise.
As far as blood testing goes. Weekly testing is only necessary initially, but even then, it's conservative. Some doctors choose to do 2 weeks or 3, but I prefer to be conservative in my recommendations. With some patients being overly sensitive to that family of drugs, numbers can go down pretty quickly. You're ok though.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Metallic Blue,
Thanks for you thoughtful reply.
Since I know babesia is still a factor for me, the idea of going off Mepron and Zithromax is scary. Maybe you can understand that fear. It sounds like you think just Zhang's artemisinin is enough. I am inclined to believe you, but I am still nervous. [/quote]
I can understand the fear. Obviously combining therapies is better as long as no interactions will interfere with your own chemistry. It's possible to use Zhang's Artemesia with Zithromax as well. Talk to your physician, or even contact Dr. Zhang. He'll talk you through it. He has a message forum where you can ask questions.
There are other options too if you wanted to use a different kind of Artemesia, or Artemisinin (there are other derivatives). You would just have to use a combination of drugs to use it.
quote: I think a lot of my desire to stay on Mepron is fear-driven.
Take the time you need then to choose. It's always a risk to reward process in my opinion, so you have to think about it, until you're ready. Ask questions, talk to doctors, read about it -- you'll get there.
quote: I am also starting back up on the salt/C protocol....something I believe for ME is a good thing, maybe not for everyone though.
Yeah that's one I don't recommend, primarily because I've heard of far too many cases of kidney problems. What has your experience with it been?
quote: You mentioned Adamantadine. You think Rifampin NEEDS something to accelerate it into cells? I think Zithromax certainly does (which I'll be stopping), but Rifampin too huh?
Yes
quote: You mentioned Tindazole. I SHOULD probably start looking into cyst-busting. My LLMD doesn't put much emphasis on it, unfortunatly. I was thinking of addressing the cysts in a couple months, but maybe I should start sooner.
I would. I personally still have questions about the Nutribiotics Grapefruit Seed Extract. I haven't confirmed any clear cut insight into wether GSE causes similar reactions like Grapefruit Juice does.
quote: Anyways thanks again for your thoughtful advice...means a lot.
PS---with Zhang's art, you take it everyday, right? Because I know with the normal Art, the 4 days on, 3 days off cycling is useful because it keeps the regular artemisinin working.
Yes, with Zhang's Art you do it everyday, 3 days per week. You take it for 40-80 days, but no longer. You then can rest for awhile, a couple months, and restart a new cycle if you have to, but Dr. Zhang says that's usually unnecessary.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
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