LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Any natural protocols for ridding neurotoxins?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Any natural protocols for ridding neurotoxins?
ArtistDi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2297

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ArtistDi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do any of you work with a LLMD or other doctor who can rid neurotoxins without Questran, etc. There must be herbs, etc.
that may do the same without having to put
yet another drug in one's mouth.

Anyone?


Posts: 1567 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rita
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm in, exactly, the same position. I can't tolerate Questran or any of the cholesterol lowering drugs.

------------------
New Yorkers,and others who are LL, please email [email protected] to help.

Lyme Disease Association 888-366-6611 and www.lymediseaseassociation.org

www.lyme.org and (860) 5252000 email is [email protected]

www.lymeinfo.net/lyme

www.lymealliance.org

www.lymeinfo.net/lyme[/URL] [URL=http://www.geocities.com/ldbullseye

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/forum1/HTML/009342.html]
www.ilads.org
www.faim.org/lyme


IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259

Icon 1 posted      Profile for GiGi         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Try Beta Sitosterol, a plant sterol, from Pharmax, non-prescription easy to take. Do a search here - it's been discussed before.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Marnie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are you talking about heavy metals?

Of particular interest is that magnesium is necessary in aluminum detoxification in the body, and aluminum inhibits glycolysis and oxidative phosphorylation, resulting in decreased intramitochondrial ATP production.

Additionally, due to its high affinity for phosphate groups, aluminum blocks the absorption and utilization of phosphates vital to the synthesis of ATP. Aluminum toxicity is known to cause metabolic disturbances and has been implicated in Alzheimer's disease, and detoxification is critical to keep the body and mind healthy. Researchers have found that in addition to adequate amounts of magnesium supplemented in the diet, malic acid supplementation may also be beneficial in improving the symptoms of aluminum toxicity and fibromyalgia [specifically.sup.(3)(4)].
http://www.youngagain2000.com/noname23.html

Magnesium protects the cell from aluminum, mercury, lead, cadmium, beryllium and nickel. Evidence is mounting that low levels of magnesium contribute to the heavy metal deposition in the brain that precedes Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer's. It is probable that low total body magnesium contributes to heavy metal toxicity in children and is a participant in the etiology of learning disorders. http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html


Selenium and Mercury

Selenium serves to prevent the incidence of mercury poisoning by affecting the body's metabolism of the potential toxin.
Once absorbed, selenium interacts with the sulfur-containing amino acids (e.g., cysteine and methionine) to form the enzyme glutathione peroxidase, and for incorporation into various proteins, such as hemoglobin and myoglobin.

Excesses of selenium are secreted in the urine, and the selenium-containing molecule dimethyl selenide is excreted during respiration. This molecule gives breath a garlic odor characteristic of selenium toxicity.
http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/min_selenium.html

Selenium is a very powerful anti-oxidant. It is thought to be 10xs more powerful than vitamin E.

Heavy metals are neurotoxins.

Incidentally, Beta refers to negative, alpha to positive.

IMHO... Magnesium malate + B6 (a very small amt. + selenium (not to exceed 200mg per day total). Timing is critical.

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 26 March 2003).]


Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SunRa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3559

Icon 1 posted      Profile for SunRa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm curious about that as well. I really don't know if I'm right, but wouldn't other detox methods work - like saunas, diet, colonics, liver/kidney detoxes, etc.? There are homeopathis detox protocols as well. Under my Naturopath I used homeopathic tinctures for biotherapeutic drainage...I think that was more for environmental toxins, but I definitely had a strong reaction. but there are homeopathic protocols for heavy metals as well...I think Jon A used them. My experiene wil homeopathy has been great...it's gentle yet powerful.

Marnie, I just started taking Selenium in the form of selenium yeast, 50mcg. Do you know if that's good?

I think GiGi posted this a while ago:

The Klinghardt Neurotoxin Elimination Protocol

Approved by:
American Academy of Neural Therapy and
Institute of Neurobiology (Bellevue, WA, USA)
Institute for Neurobiologie (Stuttgart, Germany)
Academy for Balanced NeuroBiology Ltd (London, United Kingdom)

This lecture was presented by Dietrich Klinghardt M.D., Ph.D. at the Jean Piaget Department at the University of Geneva, Switzerland Oct.2002 to physicians and dentists from Europe, Israel, several Arab countries and Asia

What are Neurotoxins?

Neurotoxins are substances attracted to the mammalian nervous system. They are absorbed by nerve endings and travel inside the neuron to the cell body. On their way they distrupt vital functions of the nerve cell, such as axonal transport of nutrients, mitochondrial respiration and proper DNAtranscription. The body is constantly trying to eliminate neurotoxins via the available exit routes: the liver, kidney, skin and exhaled air. Detox mechanisms include acetylation, sulfation, glucuronidation, oxidation and others. The liver is most important in these processes. Here most elimination products are expelled with the bile into the small intestine and should leave the body via the digestive tract. However, because of the lipophilic/neurotropic nature of the neurotoxins, most are reabsorbed by the abundant nerve endings of the enteric nervous system (ENS) in the intestinal wall. The ENS has more neurons than the spinal chord.

From the moment of mucosal uptake the toxins can potentially take 4 different paths:
1. neuronal uptake and via axonal transport to the spinal chord (sympathetic neurons) or brainstem (parasympathetics) - from here back to the brain.
2. Venous uptake and via the portal vein back to the liver
3. Lymphatic uptake and via the thoracic duct to the subclavian vein
4. Uptake by bowel bacteria and tissues of the intestinal tract

Here is an incomplete list of common neurotoxins in order of importance:
(i) Heavy metals: such as mercury, lead, cadmium and aluminium.
(ii) Biotoxins: such as tetanus toxin, botulinum toxin (botox), ascaridin (from intestinal parasites), unspecified toxins from streptococci, staphylococci, lyme disease, clamydia, tuberculosis, fungal toxins and toxins produced by viruses. Biotoxins are minute molecules (200-1000 kilodaltons) containing nitrogen and sulfur. They belong to a group of chemical messengers which microorganisms use to control the host�s immune system, host behaviour and the host�s eating habits.
(iii) Xenobiotics (man-made environmental toxins): such as dioxin, formaldehyde, insecticides, wood preservatives, PCBs etc.
(iv) Food Preservatives, excitotoxins and cosmetics: such as aspartame (diet sweeteners) food colourings, flouride, methyl-and propyl-paraben, etc.
I have found that mercury in it�s different chemical forms has a synergistic amplifying effect with all other neurotoxins. When mercury is removed, the body starts to more effectively eliminate all other neurotoxins, even if they are not adressed.

What are the symptoms?

Any illness can be caused by, or contributed to, or exagerated by neurotoxins. Fatigue, depression, insomnia, memory loss and blunting of the senses are common early symptoms (see list of mercury related symptoms on the following pages).

How is the diagnosis established?
1. History of Exposure: (Did you ever have any amalgam fillings? A tick bite? etc)
2. Symptoms: (How is your short term memory? Do you have areas of numbness, strange sensations,etc)
3. Laboratory Testing: (Metals: hair, stool, serum, whole blood, urine analysis, xenobiotics: fatty tissue biopsy, urine)
4. Autonomic Response Testing: (Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt M.D., Ph.D.)
5. BioEnergetic Testing (EAV, kinesiology etc.)
6. Response to Therapeutic Trial
7. Functional Acuity Contrast Test (measure of Retinal Blood Flow)

TREATMENT
Why would we want to treat anyone at all? Is it really needed? Can the body not eliminate these toxins naturally on its own?
Here is a short list of independent risk factors which can either cause accumulation of metals in an otherwise healthy body - or slow down, or inhibit the bodys own elimination processes.
� genetics
� occupational exposure to toxic material
� prior illnesses
� surgical operations
� medication or �recreational� drug use
� emotional trauma, especially in eary childhood
� social status
� high carbohydrate intake combined with protein malnutrition (especially in vegetarians)
� use of homeopathic mercury
� food allergies
� the patients electromagnetic environment (mobile phone use, home close to power lines etc)
� constipation
� compromise of head/neck lymphatic drainage (sinusitis, tonsil ectomy scars, poor dental occusion)
� number of dental amalgam fillings over the patients life-time, number of the patients mothers amalgam fillings

We will discuss here only those elimination agents, which are natural, safe and have also been shown to be as effective (or more effective) than the few available pharmaceuticals. Because these products cannot be patented and exploited for unethical personal gain, little attention has been given to them by European or North American medical researchers. Many of the best scientific studies on this topic are from Asian countries.

The basic program:
High protein, mineral, fatty acid and fluid intake

Rationale:
� proteins provide the important precursors to the endogenous metal detox and shuttle agents, such as coeruloplasmin, metallothioneine, glutathione and others. The branched-chain amino acids in cow and goat whey have valuable independent detox effects.
� Metals attach themselves only in places that are programmed for attachment of metal ions. Mineral deficiency provides the opportunity for toxic metals to attach themselves to vacant binding sites. A healthy mineral base is a prerequisite for all metal detox attempts (selenium, zinc, manganese, germanium, molybdenum etc.). Substituting minerals can detoxify the body by itself. Just as important are electrolytes (sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium), which help to transport toxic waste across the extracellular space towards the lymphatic and venous vessels.
� Lipids (made from fatty acids) make up 60-80 % of the central nervous system and need to be constantly replenished. Deficiency makes the nervous system vulnerabe to the fat soluble metals, such as metallic mercury constantly escaping as odorless and invisible vapour evapourating from the amalgam fillings.
� Without enough fluid intake the kidneys may become contaminated with metals. The basal membranes swell up and the kidneys can no longer efficiently filtrate toxins. Adding a balanced electrolyte solution in small amounts to water helps to restore intra-and extracellular fluid balance

Cilantro (chinese parsley)
This kitchen herb is capable of mobilizing mercury, cadmium, lead and aluminum in both bones and the central nervous system. It is probably the only effective agent in mobilizing mercury stored in the inracellular space (attached to mitochondria, tubulin, liposomes etc) and in the nucleus of the cell (reversing DNA damage of mercury). Because cilantro mobilizes more toxins then it can carry out of the body, it may flood the connective tissue (where the nerves reside) with metals, that were previously stored in safer hiding places. This process is called re-toxification. It can easily be avoided by simultaneously giving an intestinal toxin-absorbing agent. Our definite choice is the algal organism chlorella. A recent animal study demonstrated rapid removal of aluminum from the skeleton superior to any known other detox agent.
Dosage and application of cilantro tincture: give 2 drops 2 times /day in the
beginning, taken just before a meal or 30 minutes after taking chlorella (cilantro causes the gallbadder to dump bile - containing the excreted neurotoxins - into the small intestine. The bile-release occurs naturally as we are eating and is much enhanced by cilantro. If no chlorella is taken, most neurotoxins are reabsorbed on the way down the small intestine by the abundant nerve endings of the enteric nervous system). Gradually increase dose to 10 drops 3 times/day for full benefit. During the initial phase of the detox cilantro should be given 1 week on, 2 -3 weeks off.
Other ways of taking cilantro: rub 5 drops twice/day into ankles for mobilization of metals in all organs, joints and structures below the diaphragm, and into the wrists for organs, joints and structures above the diaphragm. The wrists have dense autonomic innervation (axonal uptake of cilantro) and are crossed by the main lymphatic channels (lymphatic uptake).
Cilantro tea: use 10 to 20 drops in cup of hot water. Sip slowly. Clears the brain quickly of many neurotoxins. Good for headaches and other acute syptoms (joint pains, angina, headache): rub 10 -15 drops into painful area. Often achieves almost instant pain relief.

Chlorella:
Both C.pyreneidosa (better absorption of toxins, but harder to digest) and C.vulgaris (higher CGF content - see below, easier to digest, less metal absorbing capability) are available. Chlorella has multiple health inducing effects:

-Antiviral (especially effective against the cytomegaly virus from the herpes family)
� Toxin binding (mucopolysaccharide membrane)
all known toxic metals, environmental toxins such as dioxin and others
� Repairs and activates the bodys detoxification functions:
� Dramatically increases reduced glutathion,
� Sporopollein is as effective as cholestyramin in binding neurotoxins and more effective in binding toxic metals then any other natural substance found.
� Various peptides restore coeruloplasmin and metallothioneine,
� Lipids (12.4 %) alpha-and gamma-linoleic acid help to balance the increased intake of fish oil during our detox program and are necessary for a multitude of functions, including formation of ther peroxisomes.
� Methyl-coblolamine is food for the nervous system, restores damaged neurons and has ist own detoxifying efect.
� Chlorella growth factor helps the body detoxify itself in a yet not understood profound way. It appears that over millions of years chlorella has developed specific detoxifying proteins and peptides for every existing toxic metal.
� The porphyrins in chlorophyl have their own strong metal binding effect. Chlorophyll also activates the PPAR-receptor on the nucleus of the cell which is responsible for the transcription of Dna and coding the formation of the peroxisomes (see fish oil), opening of the cell wall (unknown mechanism) which is necessary for all detox procedures, normalizes insulin resistance and much more. Medical drugs that activate the PPAR receptor (such as pioglitazone) have been effective in the treatment of breast and prostate cancer.
� Super nutrient: 50-60% aminoacid content, ideal nutrient for vegetarians, methylcobolamin - the most easily absorbed and utilized form of B12, B6, minerals, chlorophyll, beta carotene etc.
� Immune system strengthening
� Restores bowel flora
� Digestive aid (bulking agent)
� Alkalinizing agent (important for patients with malignancies)

Dosage: start with 1 gram (=4 tabl) 3-4 times/day. This is the standard maintainance dosage for grown ups for the 6-24 months of active detox. During the more active phase of the detox (every 2-4 weeks for 1 week), whenever cilantro is given, the dose can be increased to 3 grams 3-4 times per day (1 week on, 2-4 weeks back down to the maintainance dosage). Take 30 minutes before the main meals and at bedtime. This way chlorella is exactly in that portion of the small intestine where the bile squirts into the gut at the beginning of the meal, carrying with it toxic metals and other toxic waste. These are bound by the chlorella cell wall and carried out via the digestive tract. When amalgam fillings are removed, the higher dose should be given for 2 days before and 2-5 days after the procedure (the more fillings are removed, the longer the higher dose should be given). No cilantro should be given around the time of dental work. During this time we do not want to moblize deeply stored metals in addition to the expected new exposure. If you take Vitamin C during your detox program, take it as far away from Chlorella as possible (best after meals).

Side effects:
most side effects reflect the toxic effect of the mobilized metals which are shuttled through the organism. This problem is instantly avoided by significantly increasing the chlorella dosage, not by reducing it, which would worsen the problem (small chlorella doses mobilize more metals then are bound in the gut, large chlorella doses bind more toxins then are mobilized). Some people have problems digesting the cell membrane of chlorella. The enzyme cellulase resolves this problem. Cellulase is available in many health food stores in digestive enzyme products. Taking chlorella together with food also helps in some cases, even though it is less effective that way. C.vulgaris has a thinner cell wall and is better toerated by people with digestive problems. Some manufactures have created cell wall free chlorella extracts (NDF, PCA) which are very expensive, less effective - but easily absorbed.

Chlorella growth factor
This is a heat extract from chlorella that concentrates certain peptides, proteins and other ingredients. The research on CGF shows that children develop no tooth decay and their dentition (maxillary-facial development) is near perfect. There are less illnesses and children grow earlier to a larger size with higher I.Q and are socially more skilled. There are case reports of patients with dramatic tumor remissions after taking CGF in higher amounts. In our experience, CGF makes the detox experience for the patient much easier, shorter and more effective.
Recommended dosage: 1 cap. CGF for each 20 tabl.chlorella

Garlic (allium sativum) and wild garlic (allium ursinum)
Garlic has been shown to protect the white and red blood cells from oxidative damage, caused by metals in the blood stream - on their way out - and also has ist own valid detoxification functions. Garlic contains numerous sulphur components, including the most valuable sulph-hydryl groups which oxidize mercury, cadmium and lead and make these metals water soluble. This makes it easy for the organism to excrete these subastances. Garlic also contains alliin whis is enzymatically transformed into allicin, natures most potent antimicrobial agent. Metal toxic patients almost always suffer from secondary infections, which are often responsible for part of the symptoms. Garlic also contains the most important mineral which protects from mercury toxicity, bio active selenium. Most selemium products are poorly absorbable and do not reach those body compartments in need for it. Garlic selenium is the most beneficial natural bioavailable source. Garlic is also protectice for against heart disease and cancer.
The half life of allicin (after crushing garlic) is less then 14 days. Most commercial garlic products have no allicin releasing potential left. This distinguishes freeze dried garlic from all other products. Bear garlic tincture is excellent for use in detox, but less effective as antimicrobial agent.

Dosage: 1-3 capsules freeze dried garlic after each meal. Start with 1 capsule after the main meal per day, slowly increase to the higher dosage. Initially the patient may experience die-off reactions (from killing pathogenic fungal or bacterial organisms). Use 5-10 drops bear-garlic on food at least 3 times per day.

Fish oil:
The fatty acid complexes EPA and DHA in fish oil make the red and white blood cells more flexible thus improving the microcirculation of the brain, heart and other tissues. All detoxification functions depend on optimal oxygen delivery and blood flow. EPA and DHA protect the brain from viral infections and are needed for the development of intelligence and eye-sight. The most vital cell organelle for detoxification is the peroxisome. These small structures are also responsible for the specific job each cell has: in the pineal gland the meltonin is produced in the peroxisome, in the neurons dopamine and norepinephrine, etc. It is here, where mercury and other toxic metal attach and disable the cell from doing its work. Other researchers have focussed on the mitochondria and other cellorganelles, which in our experience are damaged much later. The cell is constantly trying to make new peroxisomes to replace the damaged ones- for that task it needs an abundance of fatty acids, especially EPA and DHA. Until recently it was believed, that the body can manufacture ist own EPA/DHA from other Omega 3 fatty acids such as fish oil. Today we know, that this process is slow and cannot keep up with the enormous demand for EPA/DHA our systems have in todays toxic environment. Fish oil is now considered an essential nutrient, even for vegetarians. Recent research also revealed, that the transformation humans underwent when apes became intelligent and turned into humans happened only in coastal regions, where the apes started to consume large amounts of fish. Why not benefit from that knowledge and consume more fish oil?

The fatty acids in fish oil are very sensitive to exposure to electromagnetic fields, temperature, light and various aspects of handling and processing. Trans fatty acids, long chain fatty acids, renegade fats and other oxydation products and contaminants are frequently found in most commercial products. Ideally, fish oil should be kept in an uninterrupted cooling chain until it ends up in the patients fridge. The fish-source should be mercury and contaminant free, which is becoming harder and harder. Fish oil should tast slightly fishy but not too much. If there is no fish taste, too much processing and manipulation has destroyed the vitality of the oil. If it tastes too fishy, oxydation products are present. I recommend to use the product recommended below (grade I), where meticulous care has been taken to comply with all the necessary parameters. The clinical results are outstanding.

Dosage: 1 capsule Omega 3 taken 4 times/day during the active phase of treatment, 1 caps. twice/day for maintainance
Best if taken together with chlorella
The VegiPearls contain half the amount of EPA/DHA. The vegetarian capsules eliminate even the most remote possibility of containing prions and make the idea of taking fish oil more easily acceptable for vegetarians. Recently a fatty acid receptor has been discovred on the tongue, joining the other more known taste receptors. If the capsules are chewed, the stomach and pancreas start to prepare the digestive tract in exactly the right way to prepare for maximum absorption. Children love chewing the VegiPearls.
To treat bipolar depression, post partum depression and other forms of mental disease, 2000 mg of EPA are needed/day (David Horrobin). For the modulation of malignancies, 120 mg of EPA 4 times/day are needed. The calculations can easily be done with the information given on the label.

Balanced electolyte solution (Selectrolyte)
The autonomic nervous system in most toxic patients is dysfunctional. Electric messages in the organism are not received, are misunderstood or misinterpreted. Toxins cannot be shuttled through the extracellular space. Increased intake of natural ocean salt (celtic sea salt) - and avoidance of regular table salt - has been found to be very effective in resolving some of these problems. Most effective is a solution pioneered by the American chemist Ketkovsky. He created the formula for the most effective electrolyte replacement, which was further improved by Morin Labs, and is now called �selectrolyte``. I recommend this to all my patients and have observed, that every aspect of the detoxification process seems to be enhanced. 5 % of the population is sodium or chloride sensitive - the blood pressure goes up (easily reversible). In these patients the detox process takes longer and is more difficult.

Dosage: 1 tsp in a cup of good water 1-3 times/day During times of greater stress the dosage can be temporarily increased to 1 tbsp 3 times/day
More agressive approaches, such as i.v Glutathione, Vit.C, DMPS, CaEDTA and others have a place in reasonably healthy people but often worsen the condition in patients with advanced illness.

Most valuable is the addition of psychotherapeutic interventions such as applied psychoneurobiology (APN) and mental field therapy (MFT) to trigger the release of toxins from their hiding places.

Chlorella, cilantro, garlic-products and fatty acids vary greatly in quality and nutrient content, also in content of contaminants. I no longer recommend BioReurella and other products that have not undergone or passed our quality control screening process.

Heavy metal detox has to be done carefully and right!

October 2002
Dietrich Klinghardt, MD, PhD
Bellevue, Washington, USA www.neuraltherapy.com


Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ArtistDi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2297

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ArtistDi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Where would one get a cilantro tincture?

Would I have to see a Naturopath?


Posts: 1567 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DiffyQue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3317

Icon 14 posted      Profile for DiffyQue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 

Di

Some clues, and leads:

I heard cranberry juice is supposed to be a detoxifier, but no clue as to what its supposed to nab .

Magnesium is a highly polar atom(very elecropositive) and its this electrical property confers its binding of things in an effort to get electrons to fullfill its quantum number of electrons. (mouthful of unsolicited infor., I know.)

Cilantro sounds pretty good.

A whole program strictly followed X at least 6 months will net a detaox.

Slow = key

Its not good to pull to much garbage out in to short a time frame; a bit at a time.


Posts: 1172 | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Marnie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cran. juice...tannic acid. Ahhh..see the sarsaparillia (sp?) link?

Spirulina - chorella is in it - given post Chernobyl.

Pretty interesting, huh?

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 26 March 2003).]


Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rita
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've taken chorella and it affects me the way eating a diet EXTREMELY high in fat does. It's not something discussed in polite circles. Does anyone know why the chorella would do that?
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lla2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2364

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lla2     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Di,
my acupuncturist/herbalist mixes a bunch of herbs weekly for me that have immune building adn toxin cleansing qualities...I brew them into a daily tea....so I don't have to take any additional meds. Do you have an herbalist near you? If not, mine is in the middle of RI, it may be worth a trip for you....probably about an hour drive...

Lis


Posts: 4713 | From saunderstown, ri Usa | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kubz62
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kubz62
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have had lyme for some time now and have not made the progress I would've liked with the abx alone, so I am now eagerly looking into the adjuctive therapies. This topic interested me as I do think the neurotoxins are a factor.
Also, I am a registered nurse. When I worked in the hospital I used to give patients who had overdosed on medications activated charcoal. This would absorb the toxic effects of the medication. Doing a brief web search on charcoal it seems that it may have some benefit on absorbing the neurotoxins as it is describes as having the ability to absorb many substances.
One precaution that one would have to consider would be not to take it too close to the abx dose as it would probably absorb the abx.
It would probably best to only use the charcoal on a day when you are taking an 'holiday' from the abx or if you are on a pulsing schedule.
It can be purchased at health food stores and I just might give it a try.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SunRa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3559

Icon 1 posted      Profile for SunRa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ArtistDi,

you should be able to get a cilantro tincture at a health food store. Dr. Mercola says "the best form of cilantro is a tincture available from Dragon River (505-583-2348)." Or you can make it yourself if you don't mind waiting a couple weeks.

Rita,

I looked up your reaction to chlorella and it could either be...

(1) "About 30% of people can't tolerate chlorella. This may be due to optimized function of the enzyme cellulase. If you are unable to tolerate this it would be wise to consider adding an enzyme with cellulase in it to help digest the chlorella.
If at any time one develops nausea or starts "burping up" the chlorella taste then the chlorella should be stopped immediately as a food sensitivity is developing which will only worsen if you continue taking it"

(2) you are taking too much...dosages vary person to person,depending on weight, activity level, and health (the more unbalanced and toxic you are, the less you should start off with). Try less (1/5 - 1/10 the standard dose for a few wks, then moderately up the dose. if no reaction, then your problem is more likely....

(3) a beneficial healing reaction! the release of a layer of toxins can cause digestive upset or headaches.

Chorella is water-loving, so if you take it in tablet form, chew it and follow w/ fluids, or soak in water for hour or more first. or take the powder or granule form with liquids.

i hope this helps
- Jen


Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kira
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 2676

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kira     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey there Diane,

Lots of good suggestions above...but I thought I'd still add in what I have started using the past few months. (I started on it because I also could not use the medication typically recommended to help detox)

Unfortunately the supplement is quite pricey, compared to a lot of the other options mentioned to you...but,

I have been using Chito-power...and find it is well worth every penny though for me at least...and now I have heard from several other people who have started using it and said it really helped them too!!

You can read more about it and order it online...just do a search on Chitopower and it should pop up.

All my best,

Kira


Posts: 802 | From Chicago suburbs, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Marnie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Universal remedy is magnesium oxide, tannic acid and activated charcoal.

"Commercial preparations promoted as "universal antidote" contain magnesium oxide, tannic acid, and activated charcoal has fallen to infrequent use since superiority in decreasing adsorption has not been shown and one of the ingredients is potentially hepatotoxic. Identify that ingredient." http://www.pharmacy.arizona.edu/
centers/apdic/answers2/6.html

We mess up tannic acid when we process it.

But in nature animals drink from "brown" streams and benefit from the tannic acid (from old leaves, wood) in them. I did a post on that awhile back. It was written by a forest ranger. His observations.


But the underlying idea...uncouple with an acid, rebalance, detox. remains the same. The formula can vary with some good results. But timing is critical. Think like a keet. How long before excess Mg is eliminated?

B6 is needed to get Mg into the cells. Pick the right Mg. Have selenium on standby ;-)


Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ricardo
Member
Member # 2199

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ricardo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What do the toxins (given off by the dying or dead spriochetes) consist of? I thought this was what was meant by toxins. I thought Questran was aimed at helping absorb and flush these out. Since a lot of people have claimed that Questran either doesn't help or can't be tolerated, what will help eliminate these toxins from the body so they are not re-absorbed? What will eliminate the toxins that result from dying or dead spriochetes?
Posts: 97 | From North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ricardo
Member
Member # 2199

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ricardo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry, major brain fog. I forgot to mention I did read all the above information, but primarily all of it seems to relate to metal detoxing. One brief mention was of biotoxins. I am interested in finding out what are the specific wastes or toxins given off by the spirochetes and what specifically gets them eliminated from the body.
Posts: 97 | From North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Marnie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Check out this website!
http://www.happyherbalist.com/natural_remedies.htm

Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyma Bean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1914

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lyma Bean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've had good luck with mixing D-Leucine and
the contents of 2 L-Glutathione capsules, taken sublingually. Body brushing is also good to keep the lymph system moving.

Good Luck and Take Care....Terri


Posts: 1405 | From Plano, Texas | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sofi
Member
Member # 2346

Icon 14 posted      Profile for sofi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is some good info:
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/detox/detox.htm

Posts: 87 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DiffyQue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3317

Icon 1 posted      Profile for DiffyQue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 

Marnie

Imma a goin' to da nearest river bank an imbibe some of that good ol' brown water alongside that moose! He He. Strain the leaf-matter through my teeth!

Tannic acid wholsale down at the river!
If I did that then I'd have to call Ye for emergency lift to the E.R.

Back later to finish

[This message has been edited by DiffyQue (edited 31 March 2003).]


Posts: 1172 | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BugBarb
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 210

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BugBarb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Both Dr. Shoemaker (originator of questran therapy) and I, on our own (separately) recognized the similarities between the characteristics of Questran and Chitosan. I exchanged emails with him and he stated that he was doing some informal research on chitosan. I have used both high quality chitosan and low quality chitosan. They are equally effective. Easy to swallow capsules. The worst part is burping up crab flavored powder, so I eat an acidic food(fat free, like a tomato or orange) after taking the capsules. Chitosan does work. I have used it. The only problem was that I felt so damn good that I overstressed my still infected body and started producing toxins faster than I could rid myself of them. So, take the chitosan and be careful. It is available in the diet section of any store as a fat trapper, fat magnet, etc
Posts: 607 | From (deer tick)Heaven! Angeles National Forest | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ricardo
Member
Member # 2199

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ricardo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks everybody for all the suggestions. I plan to try the Chito-san. Would give anything to get my brain back. I have to rely on friends and family to do most of my writing and a lot of other stuff since I frequently--literally!--lose my mind.
Posts: 97 | From North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Beverly     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Up.
Posts: 6639 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobokinite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6132

Icon 1 posted      Profile for hobokinite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow! that Chitopower is expensive! Why is it different than the cheaper brands. How much does one take???
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobokinite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6132

Icon 1 posted      Profile for hobokinite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Again, why is chito powder so much more than regular? is is that much betetr. has anyone had sucess with the detoxing that their outdoor and food alergies went away too?
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobokinite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6132

Icon 1 posted      Profile for hobokinite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Again, why is chito powder so much more than regular? is is that much betetr. has anyone had sucess with the detoxing that their outdoor and food alergies went away too?
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hobokinite
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 6132

Icon 1 posted      Profile for hobokinite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Again, why is chito powder so much more than regular? is is that much betetr. has anyone had sucess with the detoxing that their outdoor and food alergies went away too?
Posts: 462 | From Newnan, GA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Corgilla
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4066

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Corgilla     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi,

I don't know what the difference between Chitopower and drug store chitosan is. I have tried the chitosan and it seemed to do the trick for me.

I was herxing while on babs treatment and took it a couple of days in a row before bed. My herx ended very quickly.

I forgot about that. I think I'll try it again now that my fat ingestion isn't so critical to my treatment protocol.

I don't have outdoor or food allergies so I don't know if it would help with that.

If you are allergic to shellfish, you can't use chitosan. It's crushed up crabshell or something like that.

Best wishes,

Corgilla


Posts: 694 | From PA | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathy Boss
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3062

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kathy Boss     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Di,

I am not saying a LIVE blood test will cure you but what I am offering as advice is...

A BRADFORD LIVE BLOOD VIEWING......By a confident doctor that knows how to read it.

Serum, blood test do not always give us the answers we are looking for. Also Insurance more than likely will not pay for them.

It can be more then Lyme. As you know. Once the immune system is ROCKED it can take several treatments to get the immunse system back in order to fight other bugs.

Lyme is not a SINGLE disease.

It has counterparts that keeps you under the thumb.

Pay attention to more of what Lyme has done and not the Lyme.

It takes lot's of healing after the hit. Many people keep on worring about the HIT and destroy progress.

EMAIL me if I/WE can be of anymore help.

God Bless, Kathy


Posts: 1092 | From CA | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kira
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 2676

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Kira     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi everyone,
(I see this is an old post that resurfaced) and I posted last year about ChitoPower and have used it quite a bit...but it IS expensive...so I would always "save" it for those special herxes...never having anything as effective to use on an ongoing basis...

But I just recently discovered something new from my LLMD, that is proving to be quite effective for me, and is much more affordable...

It's called BioTox Elim by PhytoTherapy Research Labs...and it's only about $13!!

It is herbal, use 10-20 drops in a 1/4 cup water, 3x a day...on am empty stomach (all herbs should be takn this way)

I have a lot of sensitivity issues so I have to build up my dosage to see how I tolerate things...but even just 3-5 drops a day total seemed to have a good effect on me already!! I am up to 10 drops a day and the more I take, the more effective it seems to be!!

It even states on the bottle it is "especially useful in the support of Lyme patients" but to consider for use in the elimination of any bio or neurotoxins from bacteria, molds, or other sources...

It does have a high alcohol base(necessary it says for proper extraction) but like other homeopathic drops I use, I just boil my water, then add the drops to let the alcohol burn off...when cool, drink.

Hope others find it helps them...for $13 it's worth a try I figure.

I don't know if there is a website...I got mine from my LLMD...but there is a phone number and address on the bottle...
1-931-593-2300
P.O. Box 627 Lobelville, TN 37097

All my best,
Kira


Posts: 802 | From Chicago suburbs, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mtb666
Member
Member # 16224

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mtb666         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Very old thread, but thought I'd add my two cents ;-)

I recently bought these three products from http://www.choosecra.com

Inula/Berberis Compound: For inflammatory allergic reactions - 1 oz. bottle = $12.00

SpiroNil: For neutralizing the effects of Lyme Disease - 1 fl oz./30 ml = $14.00

Biotox Elim: Fight off biotoxins and Lyme Disease - 1 fl oz./30 ml = $14.00

Total = $40.00
Shipping = $7.55
Grand Total = $47.55

I haven't started any of them because I just started heavy metal chelation therapy with IV EDTA last week, but I know I'm mold sensitive so I think I may try adding a low dose of Bio-Elim to my regimen since Kira seems to have had such good results with it, and it may help with the metal detox too.

Also, several weeks ago I restarted taking another product called CellFood w/SAM-E, it helps move "the good stuff in and the bad stuff out" of your cells, and was said to be very useful for Lyme-caused CFS.

When I first tried it I was much sicker than I am now, and just 1 drop (1/30th of recommended daily dose) made me herx so badly that I stopped taking it almost immediately. Now I'm up to 5 drops/day and the change in my energy levels is amazing! Doesn't mean I feel great every day, but I can tell it's helping a lot.

Ok, end of my 2 cents :-) GLTA!

Posts: 16 | From maryland | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code� is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.