posted
I've been feeling really sick, having weird recurring symptoms from a year ago returning, and I'm starting to trace it back to supplements I used very recently.
Wobenzym N.
Total Carbohydrates less than 1 g Sugars less than 1 g Protein less than 1 g
Problem with Plaquenil. Someone mentioned Plaquenil can raise the pH levels in the blood (or something).
In the ingredients "pH resistant enteric coat" is listed? Does this suggest that it plays with the pH?
Why is it important? I had a problem with Plaquenil...neuropathy, cold extremities, and vein bulging. Similar symptoms are cropping up.
Theory #2
If it isn't that, I have SERIOUS problems in the HPA somewhere. I can't tolerate anything that seems related to thyroid or adrenal support. Until I figure this out, I had to stop Adaptocrine K2 after being on it for less than a week.
Wobenzym is supposed to HELP the HPA... ??
This might sound crazy, out in space... I dunno what to think anymore. But, this sucks..
Posts: 829 | From MD | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
What is the dose of Wobenzyme? Have you ever taken that or something like nattokinase or lumbrokinase before?
If you have excess fibrinogen bacteria and viruses can hide in the blood and unless you are taking antibiotics or antivirals then whatever is released into the bloodstream as a result of the wobenzyme can make you sicker.
The first time hubby took wobenzyme he had not had any antibiotics yet -- had been diagnosed with lyme and was on herbals. Anyway, the chiro who prescribed the wobenzyme told him to take 11 pills 3 times per day. Hubby was already extremely sick.
The 2nd day he ended up in the ER and was unconscious for 15 hours in the hospital. Technically he was not diagnosed with encephalitis, but he definitely had encephalopathy with confusion and seizure-like activity.
It was several years before hubby was willing to try wobenzyme again. He can tolerate that supplement now and actually feels it helps with inflamation after he had had several years of treatment for tickborne diseases.
I doubt that pancreatin would cause any symptoms other than possible diarrhea if you were on too high of a dose.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I have never taken the other supplements you mentioned, and I tried a single pill of Wobenzym. I took it on Tuesday night.
Last night, I started to feel terribly cold. I noticed my feet were really cold like they were my symptoms started getting bad at the end of last year.
Then the pains starting kicking in around my veins. I was having more trouble breathing, like air hunger.
I've had all these symptoms before, but I just feel like I have a cold today. No fever.
I'm hoping it was just a reaction to Wobenzym that will disappear soon, as those symptoms had been much better since the beginning of the year -- and I don't want to revisit them.
BTW, I'm still taking 4 antibiotics in rotations at the moment.
Thanks for sharing, Bea. I find it interesting that it was a day after your husband took a dose that he ended up in the ER. Cause my symptoms took almost 24 hours to hit me.
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Carol in PA
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Wobenzym will dissolve the fibrin in biofilms, so if you had Lyme bacteria hidden in biofilm, it would then be exposed to the white blood cells.
When the white cells phage (eat) Lyme bacteria, neurotoxins are left behind, and these cause symptoms. Jarische-Herxheimer reaction.
This is an educated guess, as I don't know if you had a reaction to one of the constituents of the supplement.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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karenl
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I get very sick from Wobenzym, it works very fast on parasites and I get vein problems like horrible tingling and vibrations.
Be careful, it can cause a stroke if so much is dissolved at the same time.
Wobenzym is not allowed for people with low alpha one antitrypsin - you can have it and you would not know it. But then the Wob. dissolves the own tissue...
I think wob. and plaquenil is not to be taken together.
I do not get sick with one tablet of wob. but you also have added a lot other meds, so it might work immediately.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
A homeopathic physician recommended that I take Wobenzym N. I bought it and started using it as prescribed on the bottle (3 tabs 2x/day on empty stomach).
I was enthusiastic about taking it after reading what Brian Rosner said about it in one of his books.
I think it has helped reduce inflammation, particularly in the joints.
Now after reading this thread, I'm afraid of having a stroke or something. And I'm wondering if it is contributing to the hemorrhoid problem I'm having.
I'm not on any abx, so I know there's not a contraindication there, but I do take an antiviral. The doctor who recommended this product was a ware of this so I don't think there should be any conflict there.
I just dropped a lot of money on a big bottle of the stuff. Now I'm afraid to continue taking it.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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Carol in PA
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quote:Originally posted by chaps: I think it has helped reduce inflammation, particularly in the joints.
Now after reading this thread, I'm afraid of having a stroke or something.
Chaps, Systemic enzymes like Wobenzym may help to prevent strokes.
If you've been taking it with no bad reactions so far, you should be able to increase the dose to see more benefits.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
True, no bad reactions, but how do I know it's not doing something harmful to me veins as indicated by karenl?
Also, why would I want to increase the dosage above the amount prescribed on the bottle? The stuff is expensive enough already.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
I have taken Wobenzym-N for the past two years, cycling on and off. I've been taking it in conjunction with antibiotics. Wobenzym must be taken on an empty stomach, with cold water, in order for it to work. The enteric coating simply prevents it from dissolving in the stomach where the enzymes would be wasted. It is instead absorbed directly into the bloodstream from further down the digestive tract.
The various enzymes in Wobenzym-N aid in dissolving the biofilm which surrounds colonies of borrelia. Biofilm renders these colonies impervious to attack by the immune system and antibiotics. Picture your tendons where there is very little blood flow. Now picture long colonies of borrelia stuck on the tendons, with a coating that is impermeable to antibiotics.
The enzymes dissolve this biofilm coating. Now the antibiotics and the immune system can penetrate the colony. Result? DEAD BUGS. The rapid die-off causes herxing. You feel worse, yes, but the bugs are dying off.
I started Wobenzym at low doses and gradually increased to where I was taking 12 tablets a day, sometimes more. I would keep this up until I couldn't stand the herxing anymore, and then stop for a few weeks, sometimes a few months. You do not want to take these enzymes all the time.
I credit this supplement with improving my condition dramatically over the last couple of years.
A cheaper version of this supplement but otherwise identical is called Flavenzym, available from Vitacost.
As Bea Siebert says, you need to use caution with this supplement. Increase gradually, and STOP when herxing is too severe. Let your body detox and heal.
This supplement is reputed to help with hypercoagulation, hence the warning not to use it with other blood-thinners.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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karenl
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You have to start on very low dose on Wob. but later on ( a lot later) you can take many tablets. I took maximum nine a day.
My doctor told me that he gave too many to a patient in the beginning and he got a blood clot. The enzyme dissolves a lot.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
Even though Wobenzym-N is reputed to help with hypercoagulation by thinning the blood, I can see where in some cases it might cause a blood clot. If a person has arterial plaque I can see the Wobenzym possibly dissolving the fibrin anchoring a chunk of plaque to the artery wall. The chunk becomes free-floating with possibly disastrous consequences.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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Carol in PA
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quote:Originally posted by paulieinct:
Even though Wobenzym-N is reputed to help with hypercoagulation by thinning the blood, I can see where in some cases it might cause a blood clot. If a person has arterial plaque I can see the Wobenzym possibly dissolving the fibrin anchoring a chunk of plaque to the artery wall. The chunk becomes free-floating with possibly disastrous consequences.
I have never seen that in any of the information I've read about systemic enzymes.
What I have seen is explanations of how systemic enzymes help to reduce the blood clots. They do this gradually so that chunks of it do NOT break off.
Please do not start a rumor like this. However, if you have any sources backing this up, I'd be interested in reading them.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Carol in PA
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quote:Originally posted by chaps: Also, why would I want to increase the dosage above the amount prescribed on the bottle? The stuff is expensive enough already.
The dose on the bottle is very low. In reading articles about how the European doctors treat with systemic enzymes, I found that they were giving up to 30 tablets daily "to force the therapeutic response."
I am taking 12 tablets daily, in one dose. That reduces the body pain and headaches dramatically, as I found out when I stopped taking it and everything came back.
It works out that I'm spending about $50 per month on this one supplement. It reduces inflammation and relieves alot of the pain.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Wow, I'll have to check with my doctor and see what he says about upping the dosage. Thx.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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Carol: see karenl's post above. It was her doc who said too much Wobenzym in one patient caused a clot. I was just speculating as to why that happened.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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karenl
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If too many bugs are killed at the same time or too much is dissolved it can cause problems. I myself had trouble with vision from a clot while on plaquenil. If you start with low dose you are not taking that risk.
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posted
Do I need to consider something much more wrong in my case? I mine, I took 1 pill which is (1/3) of the suggested dosage.
It's been 5 days, and I still feel really out of it. Little shaky, very cold, nerve pain, tingling, off-balance, chest is heavy, and kinda feel depersonalized.
It's a little better than a few days ago, but I'm still on rocky ground right now. :[
Also, my head has been aching around the front-sides of my temples, lots of pressure there.
Posts: 829 | From MD | Registered: Dec 2009
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Wolfed Out: I experienced many of the symptoms you're having when I started Mepron. However, I was taking a much higher dose, started at 2 tablets, increased to 8 tablets a day. You're obviously more sensitive to Wob. than most. Sounds like herx to me, you're killing alot of bugs.
Sounds like you should stop Wob. to detox and heal, and then try it again,
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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philly78
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Bringing this back up. I was searching for some answers on here as I've been feeling rather crappy the past weeks or so.
I had got a massage last week which seemed to have done me in, but I'm still feeling more crappy than usual.
So that got me thinking as to what else I have changed. Then I realized I started Wobenzyme.
The suggested dose is 3 pills twice a day but I cannot do the evening dose just yet.
My symptoms aren't too severe and I am still able to function but I just feel crappy. Some of the symptoms that had lessened have come back....spaced out feeling, more tired than usual...increased periods of anxiety. My back has also broken out something awful!
I'm also having vision problems in the sense that it seems I am viewing everything in a haze.
After reading this thread, I'm a bit nervous now.
Any suggestions?
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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philly78
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Sorry to post again but now I'm freaking out. I am shaking uncontrollably and can't stand up b/c I'm getting too dizzy. I just ate about 1/2 an hour ago so its not hypoglycemia.
help! My hubby is at work so I'm home by myself and now this is contributing to my anxiety. I have a sense of impending doom and feel like I'm dying.
Oh dear...this is just awful!!
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I am usually alot worse during fullmoons, & Friday was. Try deep breathing, as corny as it sounds my 15 year old reminds me. This is just terrible, but this too shall pass. praying for you Philly78
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philly78
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I don't know what the heck is going on. No rapid heart beat...no trouble breathing. I just cannot stop shaking!
I was gonna go lay in the bath but for some reason, I'm actually afraid to.
I've never actually this horrible of a feeling before and my thinking is it must be due to Wobenzyme. I just don't know what else it could be.
I wish I did have someone to come over. All my family lives at least an hour away and the few friends I do have are working. I called my mom to talk but she didn't answer.
Interesting point about the full moons. I'm gonna look over my symptoms charts for the past few months and see if worsening occurs during past full moons.
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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philly78
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I take potassium magnesium aspartate. 3 pills in the morning...3 at night because my potassium runs low as well. That equals 420mg of magnesium.
I do have some natural calm magnesium that I have yet to use. I could give that a try I guess.
I was taking milk thistle but ran out about a week ago and couldn't buy more at the time. Maybe I'll go buy some more tomorrow.
I was also planning on going to buy some other things after reading up a bit more on detox.
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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