Then about a year later I convinced an HMO doc to do a parasite smear but thats sort of like fishing for a needle in a haystack it was negative.

So recently on urging of 2 smart lymies I got a Fish test, I"m positive.

It m akes my whole case make sense. Everything falls into place.

Okay, so. I hate antibiotics because of the yeast problems i get, so terrifically bad, so I won't do mepron/zith besides people here seem to hvae to go through repeated courses.

I am very interested in artemisnin or arthemos the drug or even riamet and am researching them BUT of course this is modelled on malaria, not babs, and tho organisms may be simlar there is no proof they have the same susceptibilities.

Anyway, I don't want to start with an herb that is useful but builds resistance over time. IE I want to do the right thing to start with.

Someone else recommended malaraone and said some LLMD's are using low dose (100 mg a day I think?) and its working. But then a doc/friend who has lylme/babs told me malarone HAS mepron in it, and an antibiotic as well? Is that true or a misnomer?

I probably could do okay on antiprotozoals IF THEY DO NOT create fungal issues the way antibioticcs do. I turn into a total mess and cannot digest anything, my ears and sinuse get totally stuffed up etc.

I also foudn some interesting research about the antibabesial effect of antifungals, who nows.

What I"d like to know is what you all find is the MOST effective, for you individually. Not that this is ver ylogical on my part but I just want to hear.

I know one person who said nothing but larium got rid of it and the side effects were bad.

I had acute Babesia symptoms last fall.

PCP thought it was malaria, prescribed doxy, 100 mg BID. When the fever stopped (immediately)that led me to ask for a Lyme Western Blot (that was positive).

Later my Babesia microti titer thru MDL was positive. So after 2 months of doxy, starting at 200 mg/d and working up to 600 mg/d I started Mepron and zith for 6 weeks. Not fun.

Anywho I have done a bit of reading on Babesia and malaria. It seems 2 drugs are necessary to prevent the development of resistance and one is usually an abx.

I searched for info on babs and riamet unsuccessfully. Larium- reading the psychiatric side effects was enough to dissuade me.

It may be that Mepron and zithro was effective for me. I have had 4 (monthly) negative tests for Babesai subsequent to tx, the latest being a Babesia microti panel from Igenex.

It appears Baesia is more difficult to treat than malaria.

Good luck.

Why don't any mepron buddies take malarone--which is mepron plus something else?

Anybody ever take malarone?

Anybody look into riamet?

I did mepron/zith/art for 7 months -- almost a year after completing tx, I'm still sx free for babs.

Hubby relapsed within 2 months after 10 mo of the same tx. He's redoing mepron, this time with mepron/ketek, plus tinidazole, then Alinia(both antiprotazoals). So far, excellent results. We'll see if he relapses.

I think, now, that part of the babesia puzzle is treating any forms that infect the tissue (thus the tinidazole and alinia). In some forms of malaria, the liver cells are colonized; in babs, it may be the liver or the spleen or who knows what all else are usurped by hypnozoite like forms of babs.

Clearing up babs, then bart, has made a huge difference for us.

Someone on another listed posted about heparin. I am now researching not just heparin but other sulfated polyanions, to see if there are also natural forms that theoretically might coat babs or bind to it. I've always been enaomred of that approach as a quiet way of disabling a pathogen simply by fooling it, by giving it something to bind to that is so similar to whatever it binds to on the cell to enter.

But there's no proof fucoidan for example would work like heparin.

I want to put somteing together for myself that is reasonably strong without hurting the liver too much or causing fungal side effects.

I can't believe I've been so idiotic as to not get a FISH test at least a few years ago. I also cant believe my trusted doc friend who had lyme himself twice could be so stubborn as to refuse to test me. I know he didn't want to test me because he was afraid if I did have babs he'd have to put me on heavy duty drugs, and he was afraid of that. Really dumb reasoning. I haven't seen him or gone to him in years but I'll have to write him a note. I also had him test me nearly 10 years ago for lyme and had band 93 which is actually diagnostic for late stage lyme. But my symptoms were relatively mild. Maybe I had a mild strain or was holding it in check pretty well who knows.I now realize given where I was and at what time that I got that first strain at about age 21. I taccounts for various weird symptoms I had and wsa very typically lyme, and yet, I did pretty well overall. It seems like some strains have OspC's that may not be that pathogenic. Nonetheless, he thought it was a negative test.

So much education is needed.

Anyway whatever I got 5 years ago resulting in a bullseye, was obviously a virulent strain of lyme plus babs. I had never been so sick in my life!

At least I had the right instincts!

And thank god for my HBO chamber. I'm convinced both bugs are suppressed by it. I was talking with the doc who gave me hbo ina clinic at 2.4 ata and we both agreed, babs is not oxygen loving. Its a mistake to think that since, like malaria, it likes hemoglobin because it likes the iron, that therefore it likes oxygen. Protozoa do not like oxygen...

sorry for the off topic.

Will appreciate feedback from anybody else. As to what works for you. TIA.

I am on Malarone, Plaquenil and Zithromax for Babesia. I have been taking Malarone for about a year..low dose and it works for me. (Pediatric dose)The combination controls my symptoms. If I stop..my symptoms come back.

My experience only but my yeast never really got under control until my babs infection got under control. I could eat nothing and never loose any weight.

Yeast can become out of control because your immune system can't fight it off..not just abx.

I hope you find something (the right combo )that works for you.

Good luck to you.

[This message has been edited by Beverly (edited 29 July 2005).]

The hubby did heparin 10,000 iu/ml 1/cc intradermal daily for 10 months, along with doxy 100mg 2x daily, then tinidazole 500 mg 2x daily. This was before anything was known about coinfections, and after extensive abx of all kinds for LD (but nothing that would have touched either babs or bart). He still had babs after the heparin. Heparin tx was for his very high fibrin.

Not to say heparin can't be effective against babs; this is just our experience at this dosage.

Minou--I have to read more about heparin. Seems like doses required might be somewhat high and thus danger of hematoma or bleeding etc. Lower doses from my cursory scan of the lit might stimulate babs. So you'd need high doses. So, I'm not sure, it seems to me, maybe there are other GAGS that might help. I woulodn't think it would be a solo therapy. I instinctively went to fucoidan, it has modifilan in it which is also a good chelator and helped chernobyl victims so it would be a nice thing to take on its own anyway even if it did no good for babs.

Beverly I agree aobut yeast. but malarone for ayear--to control symptoms? I worry about ultimately breeding resisance if one suppresses long term.

john lyme, you say "art and cats", what is cats?

So nobody here took riamet? From my reading this looked like the best option but I could be wrong. Reason being it was a good one-two punch that was less likely to breed resistance. Abut its been used for uncomplicated malaria in resistant areas. There's not much on riamet and babs. So we know about 5 days of use. but for instnace one could pulse it once a month and do other stuff like artemisinin in between.

the thing is, i never know with me whether a drug will be totally intolerable or okay, same with an herb. my liver is really screwed up after the last 5 years. it really protests with some drugs. i may need to do a cleansing program first. who knows.

Part of the problem was that my 1st LLMD doesn't think Babs becomes chronic, so it went untreated for awhile. 1 week of Mep and Zithro gave me more progress than I'd had after a year of treatment.

Foggy, when you say one week of mepron/zith compared to a year of treatment, do you mean a year of antibiotic/lyme treatment rather than babs treatment? How long did you stay on?

And 7 rounds--Christine, you mean of 6 weeks each? How many breaks in between, or was it just constant?

Also, do you get yeast while following a strict no sugar diet? Sometimes I consume 2 or 3 servings of plain yogurt a day, especially when my ears start to get congested...

Oxygen does kill at least some of lyme and some of babs. Maybe also suppresses growth.

'Actually, oxygen will not kill babs or bart, as they are both aerobic pathogens. So exercising, or HBOT will not help in the least to get rid of them. HBOT will kill lyme, but it will make babs worse. Oxygen therapy is bad news for coinfections unless you are absolutely sure of what you have, or don't have. Since tests are inconclusive, I would stay away from oxygen therapy'

This is not true where babesia is concerned. It is not an aerobic organism. It is a red blood cell protozoa that like malaria wants the heme from hemoglobin. It is not oxygen-seeking, in fact most protozoa are vulnerable to oxygen. The hyperbaric doc where I went a few years ago looked at blood under the microsocope before and after an hbo treatment and saw lots of dead babesia in the extracellular space.

I am pretty certain even my mild chamber suppresses if not kills it from my response.

In terms of bartonella, it is aerobic, so we don't know. The question is, does the enhanced immunity, free radicals generated etc by hbo, overall help fight off all kinds of pathogens? I know boejr, who has her own secrest, had lyme/bartonella, and is doing well with her chamber (deeper dives).

I will say that for me whatever yeast ormolds I have, fungi are facultative anaerobes meaning they can ferment OR use oxygen. So they will switch hit. So for me lots of hyperbaric can stimulate yeast.

Riamet isn't available in the US, and US doctors won't give a prescription for it (or even talk about it). It is legal and commonly used in Europe and Asia for malaria. Just recently, US Customs and the FDA turned away my incoming package.

I have had babesia for 13 months. I used the Riamet at the end of February. You only take it for 3-1/2 days. It made me really exhausted but not sick.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oxygenbabe:
[B]sweet pea, why won't US allow it in? It's a legal drug, right?
I hope I don't have trouble getting it.
How long had you had babs and how much riamet did you take?

Yeah, artemisinin didn't work for me on its own. But it did produce a flare, which gave me ammunition to request mepron even though I've never taken a babesia test, and it does improve my overall energy and shorten babesia relapses. I take it as maintenance for most of the month, and then pile it on during relapse days.

The babs treatment I took for nine of the past ten months was:

ketek 400mg/2x day
mepron 10ml/2x day
artemisinin 300mg/day (malaria dose is much higher)

I don't know if it's the best or not. The relapses have gotten shorter and shorter, so this month I have lowered the mepron dose and ramped up my bartonella treatment. So far, so good--if the babesia comes back, I'll just smack it for a few days with higher doses.

By the way, am taking LOTS of liver support with all this stuff.

Some forms of babs are aerobic. I am glad that you feel that mild HBOT is helping you. It would be intersting to have a Pathologist that was not connected with HBOT Tx's examine your red blood cells after a dive to see if he came up with the same conclusion. It is also true that some pathogens have the ability to become switch hitters when it comes to surviving in aerobic or anerobic environments. It could be that the benefit you feel from your dives are due only to Bb destruction.

Enzyme activities related to glucose metabolism in Babesia microti and Babesia rodhaini.

Shikano S, Shimada T, Nakada K, Hashiguchi R, Ono K.

Department of Veterinary Clinical Pathobiology, Faculty of Agriculture, University of Tokyo, Japan.

A comparative study was carried out on the glucose metabolism in Babesia microti (BM) and Babesia rodhaini (BR) by analyzing the enzyme activities. The lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) activity in BM showed significantly lower values than that in BR, whereas citrate synthase (CS) and malate dehydrogenase (MDH) activities were remarkably higher in BM. In addition, pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH), isocitrate dehydrogenase (ICDH), alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase (KGDH), and succinate dehydrogenase (SDH) activities also tended to be higher in BM. Then, the change of enzyme activities related to the proliferation of parasites was examined. In BM infected mice, the parasitemia increased from day 15 to day 19 after inoculation (a.i.). While BM showed decrease of G6PD and LDH activities at day 19 a.i., it showed remarkably increased activities in CS and MDH (368 and 8,842 nmol/min.mg protein, respectively). In addition, PDH, ICDH, KGDH, and SDH activities also tended to increase from day 15 to 19 a.i. In BR infected mice, parasitemia increased from day 9 to day 12 a.i. LDH activity showed a considerable increase at day 12 a.i. (12,920 IU/mg.protein). Although CS and MDH activities also showed a slight increase at day 12 a.i., the activities of PDH, ICDH, KGDH and SDH didn't change from day 9 to 12 a.i. Since these changes observed in the enzyme activities of BM and BR seemed to be correlated with their proliferation, it was suggested that BM and BR depended on aerobic and anaerobic pathways, respectively, for their glucose metabolism.

At 1.3 ata you get 200-400% more 02. Its hard to know how bacteria survive this even aerobic ones.

Fungi are almost like us, in the animal kingdom and with far more rigid cell walls etc. So, I don't think what affects them applies as well.

I now think babs is THE complicating factor since the lyme I had from age 21 on, that first bite, DID cause very upsetting episodic ailments but I functioned well enough to be travelling the world and live abroad and exercise etc. Nothing like what happened 5 years ago, adn clearly the one difference is babesia. I suppose it could also be a wild type borrelia strain.

I was thinking of buying a microscope and testing my blood but I'm too overwhelmed with other work and health stuff and all the time that consumes. I really would like to learn to do that and think I could if life had more time space and ease in it